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Old 12-22-2011, 10:17 AM    (permalink
Sloopy
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Originally Posted by JHL6719 View Post
I can guarantee you Alabama wouldn't be afforded two seperate staffs...

The NCAA would bury Alabama, just like they did when they (and the FBI) didn't have a shred of evidence and no money trail leading to Albert Means. They don't need it. They had the exact same lack of evidence in the Means case as they did the Cam Newton case. Bama gets hammered. Auburn gets off.

The NCAA tried to bury Bama for Antonio Langham signing his name on a napkin in a restraunt.

I know you Big-10-11-12 fans are sick and tired of watching your sissy football teams get their guts stomped out by the SEC, but you don't have any idea what it's like to really be in the crosshairs of the corrupt NCAA, who can do whatever they want, whenever they want, however they want.
You sound like the worst kind of homer
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Miller is visual sex on the field.
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Old 12-22-2011, 10:19 AM    (permalink
Sloopy
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Ouch. My wrist.


You gotta be kidding.

They KNOWINGLY play ineligible players, try to cover it up, lie about it to NCAA officials, and they lose 9 scholarships?

You act as though USC didn't know, also one must look at the severity of the infractions

Then they conspire with the Sugar Bowl to let the players play and keep that game intact?

LOL @ this, there was no conspiring, they self imposed the suspensions for the next season and the NCAA saw it fit quit being melodramatic.

There is no comparison to what they KNOW about SC. The NCAA seems to have punished the Trojans based on the idea they "Should have known" if they did not in fact know. Fair enough.

Your kidding yourself if you don't think USC knew.

But apply that same standard to OSU, who YOU KNOW was aware, and then tried to hide and lie their way out of it.

Now your statements are just getting more and more false. Yes, at one point, OSU knew about the players. Now please explain how they lied there way out of it.

If this isn't 'Lack of Institutional Control', nothing is.

USC got LOIC because the entire AD knew about what was going on for years and did nothing to stop it, on top of it they were still under probation from a previous incident. You clearly know nothing of what you speak so please stop trying

The sanctions are a joke. The 5 year penalty on Tressel has no affect now on Ohio State. In fact, they were so sure the sanctions would be minimal they were able to replace Tressel with the most coveted hire of the year.

This is because a lot of the "knowingly" playing ineligible was done by Tressel.
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Miller is visual sex on the field.
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Old 12-22-2011, 10:23 AM    (permalink
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Crying? It is a fact that USC and Ohio State are both dirty programs. Both got caught cheating, both are corrupt, and I'm glad both were sanctioned. I wouldn't be proud if my alma mater were involved in either scandal, but as an outside observer, it is not hard for me to see the inconsistency by the NCAA.
You and I have had this debate before, and I really don't want to get into it yes we deserved to be punished.

However, USC was tenfold worse than OSU and because we have had this debate and read through a 40 page NCAA report against USC I know that you know the difference.
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Old 12-22-2011, 10:25 AM    (permalink
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I know damn well you won't touch the rest of my post because it makes too much sense.
haha, you can tell yourself that's the reason, truth is it was just too long to repost. you want it you got it.

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Then they conspire with the Sugar Bowl to let the players play and keep that game intact?
conspire? our players got suspended and then the NCAA let those players play in that bowl game just b/c they would get more money out of it. the decision to not suspend the players for the Sugar Bowl was on the NCAA, not Ohio State. we ended up forfeiting that game and giving the money back as our own decision too even though we played eligible players.

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There is no comparison to what they KNOW about SC. The NCAA seems to have punished the Trojans based on the idea they "Should have known" if they did not in fact know. Fair enough.

But apply that same standard to OSU, who YOU KNOW was aware, and then tried to hide and lie their way out of it.

If this isn't 'Lack of Institutional Control', nothing is.
case in point numero uno. the fact that you think what OSU did doesn't even compare to what USC did proves you have no idea what exactly USC was charged with doing and how many rules and how much money was involved in their case compared to OSU's. You also have no idea what LOIC really is. Uninformed troll is uninformed.

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The sanctions are a joke. The 5 year penalty on Tressel has no affect now on Ohio State. In fact, they were so sure the sanctions would be minimal they were able to replace Tressel with the most coveted hire of the year.

The One Year Bowl is an attention magnet, but that just helps divert attention from the fcat they only lost NINE scholarships, and over 3 years. There is just no teeth in this penalty.


The people responsible for "Monitoring and Controlling" the program were found guilty of conspiring to break rules. They offered one up as sacrifice, and TWO still retain their jobs.


All OSU is losing here is one postseason, and in the first Meyer year that may not turn out to be too big of an issue - and then they are cleared to compete for Titles from that point on.
i addressed most of this in my last post. Tressel got punished b/c he did greatest wrong by covering up what he knew. the players got their punishment. the team losing tressel was quite a punishment as it is. the only reason we got a bowl ban is because of the booster thing that came out this summer in the wake of Tattgate.

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And the NCAA also graciously afforded them the ability to have the two separate staffs to help them negotiate such tragic, harsh times..
another case where the person who complains about us having "two staffs" has no idea. At Florida, Urban Meyer had the exact same waiver. This waiver happens all the time. UCLA currently has this waiver. Michigan had it when they hired Rodriguez, yet Michigan's AD is whining about it hypocritically. And the "two staffs" we have are the guys coaching the bowl plus Urban Meyer and Tom Herman. 2 guys. Only 10 coaches are allowed to recruit at once.

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The NCAA's 'definition' has nothing to do with the penalties they hand out when your program is in the REPEAT VIOLATER status.
this part doesn't make sense. the definition of LOIC has everything to do with determining if a school has LOIC. Repeat violations are factored in. This was not a LOIC, it was Failure to Monitor. Before the booster thing came out this summer it wasn't even going to be a Failure To Monitor charge.

Players receiving impermissable benefits happens all the time and every year. Because it happened at Ohio State to high profile players, people act like it's a huge violation. AJ Green did the same thing 2 years ago and was suspended 4 games. Not a big fuss made about that. Pryor and some of his buddies do it and it's outrageous. Tressel covering it up is a big deal and is why he was fired and we were gonna get some slap on the wrist punishment, but the tatt five wasn't as big of a deal as it sounds.



You're complaining about OSU fans whining. We're biased, that's bad. It's just as bad hearing trolls like you who are just as biased but against rather for OSU whining and babying, especially when you don't know the facts.
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Old 12-22-2011, 02:15 PM    (permalink
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What alternative is there? Make guys pay back their scholarships? Having to deal with that is part of being a team. I'm sure guys on the team knew what they were doing and decided to keep their mouths shut.
I said it in my post, its the only real thing they can do so thats whats going to happen. I just think it sucks that the people getting punished, whether it be OSU, USC, or anywhere else, are not the ones that received benefits.

Just a ******** system, but theres really nothing they could do about it.
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Old 12-22-2011, 02:18 PM    (permalink
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I feel like if we were to self-impose a bowl ban, for say, one year, the NCAA still would have tacked on to it. I've nothing to base that on, it's just an opinion. No way they were letting us walk away with nothing even though we vacated and all that ********. It's stupid Gene Smith came out and said he was "surprised and shocked" by the rulings.

I found nothing surprising about it, except for that they didn't **** us in the ass with more. I do like that he will not appeal because we need to move on. He's right, don't appeal, suck it up, endure,.and move on.
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Old 12-22-2011, 03:26 PM    (permalink
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You and I have had this debate before, and I really don't want to get into it yes we deserved to be punished.

However, USC was tenfold worse than OSU and because we have had this debate and read through a 40 page NCAA report against USC I know that you know the difference.
Yes, we have been through this debate, but I don't agree that USC's violations were 10x's worse. The bottom line is that they never had anything concrete on SC's football program and overall, I don't think the NCAA report on SC was worth the paper it was written on.

I think the Bama fans explanation is more reasonable. When you are in the crosshairs of the NCAA, you are screwed and that pretty much sums up what happened to SC.

I also think it reflects poorly on Ohio State fans on this forum who fail to own up to the actions of it's university. Jim Tressell is a liar and a cheat and there is no grey area there. It is sad that some fans of your university gain comfort that your violations are less reprehensible that SC's. They are both reprehensible. When fans of your universtiy make claims that the rest of the nation is simply jelous of your supposed past success, when in reality most view Ohio St. as underachieving and unable to win on the biggest stage against like competition (sort of like an Oklahoma), it only further turns the rest of us off to any opinions you may have, whether they are valid or not, especially when it is so apparent to most how inconsistent the NCAA is when sanctioning violators.

If all you are considering is football though, in some ways, the sanctions are probably a net positive, perhaps the best thing to happen to Ohio St. To me, a Meyer led team with 9 less scholarship players is more of a threat than a Tressell led team with all scholarships. Everyone knows that Ohio St. attracts the blue chip recruits. Combine that with what Meyer does with his playmakers, and the future looks bright for your football program.
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Old 12-22-2011, 03:41 PM    (permalink
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trust me, if Ohio State wasn't a great team every year they wouldn't be hated like they are. The same reason so many people hate the Cowboys, Lakers, etc. It all stems from winning. No one feels sorry for us b/c we lost 2 national titles after winning one and winning the big ten for 6 years in a row.

USC got hammered. The fact that they were a big program and got in trouble makes everyone compare their case to Ohio State's. Both committed major violations and both are big schools, so they both should have equal punishment? It doesn't work like that. They are two completely different cases that both resulted in major penalties. USC's were worse because they had more violations and violations that were more serious on their plate than what Ohio State had. It's not that hard to fathom if you read exactly what both schools were found guilty of and what each one was hit with. If the USC thing never happened we wouldn't be talking about Ohio State's punishment being too harsh or too lenient nearly as much trust me. Watch Miami and UNC get something and that be compared to Ohio State's and USC's.
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Old 12-22-2011, 03:47 PM    (permalink
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Watch Miami and UNC get something and that be compared to Ohio State's and USC's.
All indications point to Miami possibly getting the death penalty.
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Old 12-22-2011, 03:51 PM    (permalink
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i honestly don't think they'll give out the death penalty to miami, especially considering their problems were mostly linked to one guy. Albeit they are a repeat offender, but whatever they do end up getting will make them [even more] irrelevant for a while.
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Old 12-22-2011, 04:07 PM    (permalink
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trust me, if Ohio State wasn't a great team every year they wouldn't be hated like they are. The same reason so many people hate the Cowboys, Lakers, etc. It all stems from winning. No one feels sorry for us b/c we lost 2 national titles after winning one and winning the big ten for 6 years in a row.
Maybe Ohio St. is hated within the Big10 or something, but I don't think they are as hated nationally as you seem to believe. The Lakers win championships, lots of them, which is why they are hated, so this is not a good analogy. Ohio St. seemingly never lives up the hype when on a big stage.

Tressell had built up this serious image, this idea that Ohio St is "doing it the right way," and personality wise, an anti-Pete Carroll. It turns out that Tressell is a complete phony. Everybody hates a hipocrite and while I can understand where you may be hearing a lot of criticism right now, I think you're mistaking where the "hated" is coming from.
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Old 12-22-2011, 04:23 PM    (permalink
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Tressel isn't a complete phony. He made a mistake and that did tarnish his reputation as the clean cut high character guy, but it doesn't take away from everything else about him.

OSU is very hated. You might not notice it as a casual observer, but they get the same hate from other fanbases that the Yankees, Lakers, Cowboys, etc. get in other sports. That's what happens when you are a perennial and historic powerhouse with one of the largest fanbases in sports. In the Big Ten it's worse, but I live in South Carolina and they loathe Ohio State. You can visit basically any opposing team message board and find the same kind of thing. or you can google "most hated college teams" and ohio state is probably in the top 5 on every single list.
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Old 12-22-2011, 05:29 PM    (permalink
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Tressel isn't a complete phony. He made a mistake and that did tarnish his reputation as the clean cut high character guy, but it doesn't take away from everything else about him.
You're right, that's probably too harsh.
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Old 12-22-2011, 06:19 PM    (permalink
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All indications point to Miami possibly getting the death penalty.
I haven't seen anything remotely close to indicating Miami is getting the death penalty.
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Old 12-22-2011, 06:48 PM    (permalink
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I haven't seen anything remotely close to indicating Miami is getting the death penalty.
Just the rumblings I hear from listening to ESPN radio all day.
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Old 12-22-2011, 07:14 PM    (permalink
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I responded to the comments that didn't make me hit the floor laughing with disbelief
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Just the rumblings I hear from listening to ESPN radio all day.
ESPN is garbage. They left journalism decades ago. Seriously ESPN is the national enquirer for men.
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Old 12-22-2011, 07:27 PM    (permalink
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I honestly think UM will get something closer to OSU than USC. Depends what they find with Clint Hurtt and Joe Pannunzio. Unless the top guys want to freak out and do whatever they want, which could happen I guess.
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Old 12-22-2011, 09:53 PM    (permalink
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Yes, we have been through this debate, but I don't agree that USC's violations were 10x's worse. The bottom line is that they never had anything concrete on SC's football program and overall, I don't think the NCAA report on SC was worth the paper it was written on.

I think the Bama fans explanation is more reasonable. When you are in the crosshairs of the NCAA, you are screwed and that pretty much sums up what happened to SC.

I also think it reflects poorly on Ohio State fans on this forum who fail to own up to the actions of it's university. Jim Tressell is a liar and a cheat and there is no grey area there. It is sad that some fans of your university gain comfort that your violations are less reprehensible that SC's. They are both reprehensible. When fans of your universtiy make claims that the rest of the nation is simply jelous of your supposed past success, when in reality most view Ohio St. as underachieving and unable to win on the biggest stage against like competition (sort of like an Oklahoma), it only further turns the rest of us off to any opinions you may have, whether they are valid or not, especially when it is so apparent to most how inconsistent the NCAA is when sanctioning violators.

If all you are considering is football though, in some ways, the sanctions are probably a net positive, perhaps the best thing to happen to Ohio St. To me, a Meyer led team with 9 less scholarship players is more of a threat than a Tressell led team with all scholarships. Everyone knows that Ohio St. attracts the blue chip recruits. Combine that with what Meyer does with his playmakers, and the future looks bright for your football program.
I agree that Tressel was a liar and a cheat. I think that we deserve sanctions. My argument is against those who would say that this is to lenient or that this is in anyway comparable to USC.

I take no solace in the fact that they were less and I am honestly ashamed of what occurred... this still does not change the fact that USC's sanctions were worse. No they don't have as much evidence on USC, because USC didn't open their books.

People crying fowl of inconsistency by the NCAA are absolutely correct. There is no precedent for this level of sanctioning for this type of infraction, the idea that the NCAA went lightly on us is ridiculous. Does it hurt us? No, and I will agree that it helps us in the long run as we got rid of Tressel to make way for Meyer.

When I originally heard this news I was upset and to a certain extent I still do believe that the NCAA has little ground to stand on with these sanctions. However, upon further reflection I am at peace with their decision. Still, I will argue with anyone that says that this is comparable to USC because it is in no way similar, and those are just the facts
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Old 12-23-2011, 01:02 PM    (permalink
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http://www.thebuckeyebattlecry.com/2...a-allegations/

this is a great article laying out all of the schools breaking the rules in recent history. there is a lot of uninformed people out there making ridiculous opinions, this a good antidote for that stupidity.
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Old 12-23-2011, 04:57 PM    (permalink
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No they don't have as much evidence on USC, because USC didn't open their books.
The NCAA report on SC actually stated that "The committee determined that the cooperation exhibited by the institution met its obligation...(but the) institutions cooperation did not warrant relief in penalties imposed by the committee in this case." pg. 57

The OJ Mayo conclusions are a serious violation. There is no disputing that the female tennis player made $7,000 worth of unauthorized phone calls. The case against the football program was somewhat iffy and while there was plenty of smoke, the football program got completely f**ked.

I'm not going to sit here and argue that SC had a halo over it's head. There were some serious problems there that needed to get cleaned up. All I am saying is that SC football getting the stiffest penalties in 30+ years seemed a little over the top. Where I do agree with the penalties is that unless the penalties were as harsh as they were, I honestly don't think the administration would have gotten the point, and that's a factor that I presume the NCAA considered. Whether they are applying that same standard to all member institutions is what I question.

As far as the rest of your post, there's not much to say. Your program is under attack, so I can understand if you swing to the other extreme. It must be difficult to turn your back on someone that has done so much for your university, especially during times like these where the "haters" will take their unfair shots.

At Cal, we hated Bozeman for what he did because a) we consider ourselves an academic institution first, and 2) he was only with us for 3 years. If something like this would happen with Jeff Tedford, it would be a difficult pill to swallow, so I can empathize.
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Old 12-23-2011, 08:39 PM    (permalink
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Look on the bright side Buckeye fans. It will be easier to get a tee time or a tattoo in town if the program cleans itself up.
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Old 12-23-2011, 09:31 PM    (permalink
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The NCAA report on SC actually stated that "The committee determined that the cooperation exhibited by the institution met its obligation...(but the) institutions cooperation did not warrant relief in penalties imposed by the committee in this case." pg. 57

The OJ Mayo conclusions are a serious violation. There is no disputing that the female tennis player made $7,000 worth of unauthorized phone calls. The case against the football program was somewhat iffy and while there was plenty of smoke, the football program got completely f**ked.

I'm not going to sit here and argue that SC had a halo over it's head. There were some serious problems there that needed to get cleaned up. All I am saying is that SC football getting the stiffest penalties in 30+ years seemed a little over the top. Where I do agree with the penalties is that unless the penalties were as harsh as they were, I honestly don't think the administration would have gotten the point, and that's a factor that I presume the NCAA considered. Whether they are applying that same standard to all member institutions is what I question.

As far as the rest of your post, there's not much to say. Your program is under attack, so I can understand if you swing to the other extreme. It must be difficult to turn your back on someone that has done so much for your university, especially during times like these where the "haters" will take their unfair shots.

At Cal, we hated Bozeman for what he did because a) we consider ourselves an academic institution first, and 2) he was only with us for 3 years. If something like this would happen with Jeff Tedford, it would be a difficult pill to swallow, so I can empathize.
I liked Tressel but I to be completely honest, he only perpetuated the "choking in big games" stereotype. We are better off without him.

Every day that goes by after my initial reaction, I feel less and less upset. To be honest the only thing one can do is look forward to the Meyer era.
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Old 12-23-2011, 09:34 PM    (permalink
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I liked Tressel but I to be completely honest, he only perpetuated the "choking in big games" stereotype. We are better off without him.

Every day that goes by after my initial reaction, I feel less and less upset. To be honest the only thing one can do is look forward to the Meyer era.
big games like 6 bowl games he won or 9/10 michigan games he won? he won 7 Big Ten Titles including 6 in a row. JT's conservative style wasn't the most exciting or most popular for fans, but if Meyer can duplictate Tressel's success we'll be very lucky. Cannot argue with his results at all. The only way we could possibly be better off without Tressel is if we replaced him with a coach like Urban Meyer, and we did. Meyer is gonna win and win big here, we were very lucky to be able to follow up Tressel with someone like that.
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Old 12-23-2011, 09:52 PM    (permalink
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big games like 6 bowl games he won or 9/10 michigan games he won? he won 7 Big Ten Titles including 6 in a row. JT's conservative style wasn't the most exciting or most popular for fans, but if Meyer can duplictate Tressel's success we'll be very lucky. Cannot argue with his results at all. The only way we could possibly be better off without Tressel is if we replaced him with a coach like Urban Meyer, and we did. Meyer is gonna win and win big here, we were very lucky to be able to follow up Tressel with someone like that.
I'm not trying to knock JT, I love the guy but I think we had gone as far as we could have with him. He brought our program out of a bit of a rough time but let's face it... the 9/10 had a lot to do with some lean years at that other school, not all the credit can be given to JT being a dominant coach.

Meyer is an improvement and I am at peace with the current situation
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Old 12-23-2011, 10:32 PM    (permalink
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They are two completely different cases that both resulted in major penalties. USC's were worse because they had more violations and violations that were more serious on their plate than what Ohio State had.
Most people are probably comparing the crimes committed by both football programs, which is where some of the confusion stems. Besides the actual violations surrounding Bush and Mayo, one of the biggest problems that the NCAA had issue with was that SC effectively had no compliance department to point to when the allegations took place. SC's compliance department supposedly consisted of one person. Does anyone know how many employees most major sports universities dedicate to athetic department compliance?
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