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Old 02-21-2012, 10:59 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by falloutboy14 View Post
Just realized that the Manning deadline is two weeks from Thursday.

Regarding Brackett, if we keep a 4-3, is he suited to take Wheeler's spot?

I like to think that they'll being in scheme diverse players who can be a part of the new and present defense. I don't think anyone will have a real idea of what the plans are for the defense until free agency starts.

What do people think of Drake Nevis in a 3-4? IMO, he's the best young defender we have that I just don't see fitting into a 3-4.
I think Nevis could possibly handle 3-4 DE. He's obviously not tall like the prototype. But it would be hard to just dismiss him out of hand, his skillset is too good to not give him a chance. And from Pagano's comments it sounds like they'll run a hybrid of the two so Nevis will probably have chances to play both DT and DE.
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Old 02-22-2012, 11:57 PM    (permalink
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Who would you guys pick if, in the 2nd round, you had the choice between Dontari Poe, Alameda Ta'amu, and Devon Still?
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Old 02-23-2012, 12:11 AM    (permalink
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I would pick Poe. He has similar tools to Ta'amu, but with more consistency.
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Old 02-23-2012, 12:23 AM    (permalink
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I would pick Poe. He has similar tools to Ta'amu, but with more consistency.
I'm leaning that way too. Its hard to pass on Still though.
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Old 02-23-2012, 01:13 AM    (permalink
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http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...oon-as-friday/ The Colts can Sign Andrew Luck as soon as Friday once the Draft Order gets Finalized after a Coin Flip. I do that Andrew Luck will get Signed way before the Draft. If they could get him Signed and work out all the Numbers they could see how much they have left for Peyton Manning and all their other FA's.
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Old 02-23-2012, 08:13 AM    (permalink
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I think he'll hold out.

He might want to see if there are trade options.
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Old 02-23-2012, 08:24 AM    (permalink
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I'm leaning that way too. Its hard to pass on Still though.
I love this DT class in general.

Even if we wait until the 3rd round, we could still get a solid prospect.
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Old 02-23-2012, 05:32 PM    (permalink
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Pagano confirmed the Colts are moving towards a 3-4. They have yet to see Peyton throw a pass yet. I'm quite optimistic about the direction the team is heading towards.
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Old 02-27-2012, 02:02 AM    (permalink
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Here's the results of the latest forum mock, with me as GM for the Colts.

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Originally Posted by killxswitch View Post


Colts Conclude Defense-Heavy Draft

After selecting Standford quarterback Andrew Luck first overall in this year's draft, the Indianapolis Colts focused on defense the rest of the way. Coach Chuck Pagano's fingerprints were clearly visible with each pick sent to the podium.

Round 1: Andrew Luck - QB - Stanford

Most expected this pick, and indeed the commissioner had not finished speaking before a Colts runner stood to the right of the podium with Lucks name on a pre-printed draft card. Luck was the future QB of the Colts the moment Indy lost to Jacksonville at the end of the 2011 season.

Round 2: Dontari Poe - DT - Memphis

Poe is a massive prospect, at 6'4 and 346 lbs. But even with his monstrous build and solid college reputation, Poe's 44 reps on bench press at the combine impressed even the biggest skeptics. With 32" arms he is slightly squattier than expected, but that matters less for a nosetackle prospect. Coach Pagano understand the importance of talented big men in the middle and will attempt to use Poe in a manner similar to how he used Haloti Ngata in Baltimore.

Round 3: Jared Crick - DL - Nebraska

GM Ryan Grigson continued to build the defensive trenches with this pick. A high-value selection, the Colts took a chance in not selecting a center here. Crick had some productive years both with and without Ndamukong Such next to him at Nebraska, but his final season was cut short due to injury. Crick is able to fit as a 3-4 DE, 4-3 DT, and even a 4-3 power DE, so coaches Pagano and Manusky should be able to move him around in the hybrid scheme Pagano intends to implement.

Round 3: Josh Norman - CB - Coastal Carolina

The Colts turned their attention to the defensive backfield with this pick. Norman is another small-school acquisition. His reported height of 6'2 turned out to actually be 6', but 6' and 200 lbs is still a solid height and weight for a corner. Norman is a man and press coverage corner which signals yet another step away from the Cover 2 zone defense the team previously ran. To obtain this pick the Colts traded away their 4th and 5th round picks to and switched 7th round picks with New Orleans.

Round 5: Derek Wolfe - DL - Cincinnati

The Colts put the final touches on their new defensive line rotation with another versatile pick. Wolfe compares to Crick in size and high-motor playing style, racking up a surprising 9.5 sacks and 21.5 tackles for loss his final year at Cincinnati. Wolfe can play 3-4 DE, 4-3 DT, and even 4-3 power DE and should find a home in the Colts new hybrid scheme. To obtain this pick the Colts traded away their 6th and 7th round picks to Philadelphia. The team still has a compensatory pick at the end of the 7th round.
My big regret is not getting a center for Luck. But the value always seemed to be on a defensive player and it's not like we don't need talent at every spot I picked for.
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Old 02-27-2012, 08:21 AM    (permalink
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That's a lot of value at DL. Nice. We need that
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Old 02-27-2012, 06:11 PM    (permalink
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To be fair, the Colts did draft like 3 centers a couple years ago and dline is more important. Wolfe and Poe were steals. I have Poe in the 15-25 range.
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Old 02-28-2012, 12:12 AM    (permalink
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jizz my pants at the thought of poe and crick. Don't think Poe will be making it to the 2nd round.
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Old 02-28-2012, 09:40 AM    (permalink
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Yeah there's no chance the Colts can get Poe at this point. He is going to be a top 15 pick IMO.
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Old 02-28-2012, 09:57 AM    (permalink
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There will still be a very talented DT prospect there. No doubt.

It is possible that they might draft another position in the 2nd and wait to upgrade DT later in the draft.

We do have plenty of needs.
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Old 02-28-2012, 10:05 AM    (permalink
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Yeah the team will and should go BPA at one of the many positions of need. Could be CB, S, WR, DE, DT, etc. Plus who knows what they'll do in free agency. I have no idea what to expect there.
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Old 02-28-2012, 10:06 AM    (permalink
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I'm thinking that it might be wise to draft some offensive help for Luck. I'm actually thinking Coby Fleener or BPA WR. I don't necessarily like the value, but some kind of token help might be nice. Might even consider Konz to be that help.
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Old 02-28-2012, 10:30 AM    (permalink
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I'm thinking that it might be wise to draft some offensive help for Luck. I'm actually thinking Coby Fleener or BPA WR. I don't necessarily like the value, but some kind of token help might be nice. Might even consider Konz to be that help.
If we could get Konz in the 2nd I think that'd be worth it. Way too high for Fleener though.
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Old 02-28-2012, 10:54 AM    (permalink
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Top priority should be D imo, especially considering a change of scheme.
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Old 02-28-2012, 11:22 AM    (permalink
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Top priority should be D imo, especially considering a change of scheme.
I generally agree, but I think if the Colts can get either Konz or Ben Jones in the draft they should do it. We don't want Luck to start his career switching from one center to the next.
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Old 02-28-2012, 11:34 AM    (permalink
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I agree that the D and specifically the dline probably needs about 4 draft picks, but Luck will be under immense pressure. We need to make sure that he is helped as much as possible. It won't be easy to follow a legend. I do expect an early rough patch, but I would like to make sure that his confidence doesn't take too much of a beating. A familiar outlet to check down to would be a nice confidence booster/saver.

Dallas Clark doesn't really fit into my long term plans and his salary can be dumped.
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Old 02-28-2012, 11:41 AM    (permalink
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I guess I just don't view interior OL as a premium position. Although, Colts' recent struggles on the line have shown that filling those positions isn't all that easy.

But I really want to get a stud DT, CB and Saf.
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Old 02-28-2012, 11:42 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prowler View Post
I agree that the D and specifically the dline probably needs about 4 draft picks, but Luck will be under immense pressure. We need to make sure that he is helped as much as possible. It won't be easy to follow a legend. I do expect an early rough patch, but I would like to make sure that his confidence doesn't take too much of a beating. A familiar outlet to check down to would be a nice confidence booster/saver.

Dallas Clark doesn't really fit into my long term plans and his salary can be dumped.
I want to get rid of Clark too but cutting him isn't worth it til next year. It would only net a $1.74M savings which means $5.58M in dead cap space.

Cutting him next year would save $5.33M.
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Old 02-28-2012, 03:38 PM    (permalink
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Getting a pure 3-4 NT is harder, re-signing him is harder, and getting him to play at that high level is also harder. Unless we have a Ngata in the draft that will fall to No.34, a pure 3-4 is out of question to build in 1-2 years. Ngata was the player that made the Pagano hybrid tick. We don't have that kind of player in the draft (closest is Poe), and unless we make a play for Paul Soliai in free agency, I still believe a 1-gap 3-4 makes more sense.

If Pagano plays a hybrid, I would like him to play the Wade Philips 1-gap 3-4 for the 3-4 portion of the 3-4/4-3 hybrid.

That way, you can use athletic NTs like Nevis (like a Jay Ratliff who is even lighter and so are the Houston Texans NTs), and draft someone like Brandon Thompson at No.34 to play behind Nevis in the 3-4 1-gap NT rotation, the goal will be to disrupt 1 gap and Nevis does that really well. Then, when they use the 4-3 fronts, the 1-gap style remains and there is less confusion and less of a learning curve for a LOT of the defensive players, IMO.

The key is getting the DEs that will have to play 2-gap. J.J.Watt and Antonio Smith for the Texans were outstanding there. If Pagano can bring in Cory Redding from the Ravens, that would be a huge plus for 3-4 DE. Anderson, more than Brayton, can be a good 2-gap 3-4 DE, IMO.

Conner and Angerer can be SILB and WILB for that kind of 3-4, with Freeney, Mathis, Hughes and Wheeler all OLBs.

Dontari Poe, the best pure 3-4 NT, will be gone, and will not see the second half of round 1, based on his combine performance.

Last edited by chad72 : 02-28-2012 at 03:43 PM.
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Old 02-28-2012, 04:25 PM    (permalink
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Beautiful post. Brandon Thompson would be a great pick. I'm expecting some draft day trading too. I think we're going to be jettisoning and vulturing from teams all through that weekend.
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Old 02-28-2012, 08:02 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chad72 View Post
Getting a pure 3-4 NT is harder, re-signing him is harder, and getting him to play at that high level is also harder. Unless we have a Ngata in the draft that will fall to No.34, a pure 3-4 is out of question to build in 1-2 years. Ngata was the player that made the Pagano hybrid tick. We don't have that kind of player in the draft (closest is Poe), and unless we make a play for Paul Soliai in free agency, I still believe a 1-gap 3-4 makes more sense.

If Pagano plays a hybrid, I would like him to play the Wade Philips 1-gap 3-4 for the 3-4 portion of the 3-4/4-3 hybrid.

That way, you can use athletic NTs like Nevis (like a Jay Ratliff who is even lighter and so are the Houston Texans NTs), and draft someone like Brandon Thompson at No.34 to play behind Nevis in the 3-4 1-gap NT rotation, the goal will be to disrupt 1 gap and Nevis does that really well. Then, when they use the 4-3 fronts, the 1-gap style remains and there is less confusion and less of a learning curve for a LOT of the defensive players, IMO.

The key is getting the DEs that will have to play 2-gap. J.J.Watt and Antonio Smith for the Texans were outstanding there. If Pagano can bring in Cory Redding from the Ravens, that would be a huge plus for 3-4 DE. Anderson, more than Brayton, can be a good 2-gap 3-4 DE, IMO.

Conner and Angerer can be SILB and WILB for that kind of 3-4, with Freeney, Mathis, Hughes and Wheeler all OLBs.

Dontari Poe, the best pure 3-4 NT, will be gone, and will not see the second half of round 1, based on his combine performance.
The problem is that Pagano has no history of coaching the one gap 3-4 while Manusky has only limited experience coaching it. The majority of their coaching comes from the traditional 2 Gap 3-4 or in the Ryan 3-4 (which uses 2 Gap principles with their front 3). Compared to the Texans where they had the best Defensive Coordinator in the league who not only happens to coach the 1 Gap but his da invented it. It also is one of the most complex defenses in the NFL today and has a massive learning curve. That is testament to the job that Wade Phillips has done this year for the Texans. He was able to teach a team how to play one of the most complex defenses in an off season shortened by the lockout. It was one of the singularly most impressive coaching achievements ever done. To ask guys who have little history in coaching that system to be able to do it in a short space of time is just pie in the sky material.

The Colts aren't going to turn things around in 1-2 years. The roster is in that bad a shape. You really could be talking 3-4 of solid building.
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