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Old 03-02-2012, 09:36 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Seamus2602 View Post
The problem is that Pagano has no history of coaching the one gap 3-4 while Manusky has only limited experience coaching it. The majority of their coaching comes from the traditional 2 Gap 3-4 or in the Ryan 3-4 (which uses 2 Gap principles with their front 3). Compared to the Texans where they had the best Defensive Coordinator in the league who not only happens to coach the 1 Gap but his da invented it. It also is one of the most complex defenses in the NFL today and has a massive learning curve. That is testament to the job that Wade Phillips has done this year for the Texans. He was able to teach a team how to play one of the most complex defenses in an off season shortened by the lockout. It was one of the singularly most impressive coaching achievements ever done. To ask guys who have little history in coaching that system to be able to do it in a short space of time is just pie in the sky material.

The Colts aren't going to turn things around in 1-2 years. The roster is in that bad a shape. You really could be talking 3-4 of solid building.
True, but Manusky did coach the 1-gap 3-4 at San Fran and San Diego recently though his record was not as stellar. It is all about the personnel, IMO. San Fran gained a lot of pieces in free agency on D that vaulted them to the NFCCG, happened right after Manusky left. San Diego lost a lot of players on D, especially LBs (some ironically to San Fran) when Manusky had his 1 year stint.

Ultimately, the right pieces are more important than the right scheme. But I personally do not think the 1-gap 3-4 is as complicated to teach if you draft the right pieces. Granted, Wade Philips does it better than anyone else but Manusky, if Grigson and Pagano can get the right pieces, can turn it around in a couple of years.
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Old 03-02-2012, 09:41 AM    (permalink
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A one gap 3-4 would be exciting but that isn't Pagano's defense. I'm guessing hybrid D like in Baltimore is what we should expect.
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Old 03-02-2012, 12:15 PM    (permalink
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True, but Manusky did coach the 1-gap 3-4 at San Fran and San Diego recently though his record was not as stellar. It is all about the personnel, IMO. San Fran gained a lot of pieces in free agency on D that vaulted them to the NFCCG, happened right after Manusky left. San Diego lost a lot of players on D, especially LBs (some ironically to San Fran) when Manusky had his 1 year stint.

Ultimately, the right pieces are more important than the right scheme. But I personally do not think the 1-gap 3-4 is as complicated to teach if you draft the right pieces. Granted, Wade Philips does it better than anyone else but Manusky, if Grigson and Pagano can get the right pieces, can turn it around in a couple of years.
He mostly coached the 2-Gap with the 49ers.

Personnel is important but the Colts are as close to an effective 1 Gap 3-4 as they are to an effective 2 Gap 3-4 (personnel wise). Maybe only Drake Nevis and Ricardo Matthews would benefit from the 1 Gap. Instead if they run the 2-Gap they get a defense that both the HC and the DC have extensive experience, which benefits them all. Part of it is personnel, part of it is teaching, part of it is leadership and part of it is playcalling. If the Colts go to the 1 Gap they lose a lot in teaching and playcalling only to gain a minor improvement with regards to personnel.
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Old 03-07-2012, 07:20 AM    (permalink
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Well, that's it.

I was hoping that Peyton would retire as a Colt, but unfortunately, that won't happen.

It'll be very weird to see him in another team's uniform.
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Old 03-07-2012, 08:05 AM    (permalink
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Well, that's it.

I was hoping that Peyton would retire as a Colt, but unfortunately, that won't happen.

It'll be very weird to see him in another team's uniform.
He will sign a one day contract and retire a Colt. Unless he wins 2+ SBs with his new team. Which would be the cause of mass suicide amongst Colts fans.
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Old 03-07-2012, 08:07 AM    (permalink
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He will sign a one day contract and retire a Colt. Unless he wins 2+ SBs with his new team. Which would be the cause of mass suicide amongst Colts fans.
As long as they are squeezed between Luck's 10 SBs with the Colts, I would be fine with that.
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Old 03-07-2012, 08:13 AM    (permalink
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I am also concerned about the amount of pressure Luck is going to face. He was already really overhyped but having to replace Peyton Manning as a rookie, with so many fans angry that Manning is leaving, with very little talent to throw to, is not a great situation at all.
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Old 03-07-2012, 09:57 AM    (permalink
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Grieving process begins. :/
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Old 03-08-2012, 07:53 PM    (permalink
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What a great piece written by Rick Reilly on ESPN.com entitled "Thanks for the memories". Toward the end I nearly teared up. Thanks Peyton for all you gave to the Colts!


http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/7...peyton-manning
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Old 03-08-2012, 10:48 PM    (permalink
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What a great piece written by Rick Reilly on ESPN.com entitled "Thanks for the memories". Toward the end I nearly teared up. Thanks Peyton for all you gave to the Colts!


http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/7...peyton-manning
Yep that was a good one.
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Old 03-09-2012, 09:41 AM    (permalink
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Ugh now we're trying to trade Freeney. I understand. But I hate it. He is my favorite player.
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Old 03-09-2012, 10:09 AM    (permalink
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I wouldn't mind trading Clark if we get a solid return.

I think Tamme is pretty good and can replace him.
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Old 03-09-2012, 10:12 AM    (permalink
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I wouldn't mind trading Clark if we get a solid return.

I think Tamme is pretty good and can replace him.
Tamme is a free agent. I'm not sure the Colts should pay him big money to stay. I would like to trade Clark though, for sure. We really just need to dump big contracts. Clark, Brackett, Bullitt, Addai. Take the cap hit now because 2012 will suck regardless. We will have a much better shot at winning in 2013.
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Old 03-09-2012, 10:23 AM    (permalink
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Should shop Freeney to the Bears. I think I remember them having a decent amount of cap space and they are the best schematic fit for him. He'd have to agree to a long term extension because nobody will touch a $20m cap hit or whatever it is, but the Bears would love a few seasons of Freeney and Peppers together.
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Old 03-09-2012, 10:43 AM    (permalink
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Should shop Freeney to the Bears. I think I remember them having a decent amount of cap space and they are the best schematic fit for him. He'd have to agree to a long term extension because nobody will touch a $20m cap hit or whatever it is, but the Bears would love a few seasons of Freeney and Peppers together.
His cap hit for the Colts is ~$19 million, but about $14 million of that is straight salary. So the Colts would absorb $5M in dead cap (and save the other $14 million) and the new team would either inherit the $14M salary or, much more likely, come to a new agreement with Freeney. Actually the new contract will probably be a stipulation in the trade, which means Freeney will have a say in where he goes. We won't have many trade partners but I imagine the Bears would be one of the few. Maybe also the Bengals, Broncos if they get a QB, Falcons, Saints, Rams, Titans, Dolphins if they get a QB, Seahawks if they get a QB.
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Old 03-09-2012, 11:12 AM    (permalink
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I kind of want to keep Addai. I think he can be great in the Kevin Faulk role. Plus, Luck does need someone reliable to throw to, considering we're talking about moving Clark & letting Garcon walk. A 3rd for Clark and I'm happy. If we can't get a 4th, might as well keep him.

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/pos...dwight-freeney

Paul Kuharsky suggests the Titans trade pick #20 for him. Which would be about the best we could hope for. That puts us in range of Konz/Glenn/Barron, or one of the first round DTs. It wouldn't be the end of the world to take Ta'amu there either.
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Old 03-09-2012, 11:14 AM    (permalink
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I kind of want to keep Addai. I think he can be great in the Kevin Faulk role. Plus, Luck does need someone reliable to throw to, considering we're talking about moving Clark & letting Garcon walk. A 3rd for Clark and I'm happy. If we can't get a 4th, might as well keep him.

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/pos...dwight-freeney

Paul Kuharsky suggests the Titans trade pick #20 for him. Which would be about the best we could hope for. That puts us in range of Konz/Glenn/Barron, or one of the first round DTs. It wouldn't be the end of the world to take Ta'amu there either.
I don't want to lose Freeney but getting the Titan's 1st rounder would be marvelous. I think it's completely unrealistic, but I like Kuharsky so maybe it isn't.

Addai just costs too much compared to what he offers.
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Old 03-09-2012, 11:39 AM    (permalink
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Who was the DE the bucs took in the 2nd round last year? He was a top 10 pick but had that bad knee issue where no one was certain how long he'd last. Bowers?

I think Freeney could compare to that situation. Top talent but limited window to play.

edit a few hours later:
Addai, Bullet, Clark, Brackett are out. I hope they tried to shop some of these guys, as I think some could've gotten late round picks. Going to be a new look Colts team next year.

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Old 03-09-2012, 10:31 PM    (permalink
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Think it would be best to rough out in 2012 and be set to have the $ and a few draft picks for 2013 to the point where the team starts to have talent suited around the new schemes. The Manning era has ended. We need to comprehend that and deal with it. Addai is best suited to be a #2 back at this point in his career as he's not healthy enough to be a number 1. Kinda wish they'd kept Dallas for a year but so be it. Bullet was a lousy resigning by the Polian clan so I won't miss him. Grateful he made the tackle on 4th &2 but let's move on.
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Old 03-10-2012, 01:29 AM    (permalink
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Alright I have no idea how the new defense is. What are the traits of the players to fill each position. For instance is Mathis gonna be an OLB along with Hughes and have Angerer as a MLB? What is the difference in corner skill sets? A link to or explanation of the breakdown of the different positions would be great.
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Old 03-10-2012, 08:48 AM    (permalink
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http://www.ninersnation.com/2010/3/2...he-3-4-defense

4-3 DTs translate to 3-4 DEs
4-3 DEs translate to 3-4 OLBs
4-3 LBs translate to 3-4 inside linebackers
Secondary guys are generally unaffected.

In more detail, in a 2-gap 3-4 (I believe every 3-4 except Wade Phillips is a 2-gap), the 3 defensive linemen are responsibe for 2 gaps. The NT is responsible for the holes between the center and guards. The DEs are responsible for the hole on either side of the tackle. So in effect, most running lanes are ideally taken care of by the D-line (not including tight-ends) and LBs are there to make the tackles.

As far as body types, NT should be 330+, (Wilfork, Hampton, Raji, Terrance Cody etc). They're generally shorter around 6' so O-linemen can't get leverage underneath them. He takes on the Center and should be good enough to require a double-team every play. If he's not doing his job right, that means the guards are hitting our LBs and running lanes are wide open. Which is sort of what we're used to.

DEs are around 300 pounds. Remember, they need to control the offensive tackle, not get past him. If the RB goes past either side of the tackle, the DE needs to be able to tackle him. So long arms are helpful so the DE can reach the tackle better then the tackle can reach him. Being able to move from side-to-side is good for outside running plays.

OLBs are fairly straight forward, they're 4-3 DEs but slightly smaller. At times they'll need to drop into coverage, so being able to back-pedal and do all of that is helpful. Generally they cover any outside running plays, and rush the passer.

ILBs play cleanup on any inside running play. If one or both guards are not occupied by the NT, they have to be able to stand their ground against a guard. I believe Angerer/Wheeler should be an ok size for this. Brackett would've been too small though.

As far as positions of importance, the NT is the key to the whole thing. DEs are important against the run, OLBs are important as blitzers against the pass.
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Old 03-10-2012, 04:22 PM    (permalink
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I was asked to post some info about Chucky's defense/personnel grouping :) I'll do my best:

It's difficult to say whether or not Chucky will bring the same system/personnel grouping that was in place in in Baltimore to the Colts. The personnel was in place already when he came to the Colts as well as the system, however he did add a little bit more in terms of blitzing.

I will assume that he will use the same system and personnel grouping in this explanation.

The way fallout put it is somewhat right but it's a little more complicated than that.

Positions:


The traditional 3-4 DE is tall (about 6'5" or higher) weighing upwards of 280 lbs. Assuming Chuck brings in the same system he will be a little more lenient on height but will require them to be slightly heavier than the average 3-4 DE, with the ideal being +300 Lbs.

The NT can also be shorter than most NT's (as short as 6'0") but the bigger the better (Gregg was 320 Lbs and probably the lightest they would go)

The DL needs to be heavier than the average DL as he requires more athletic Lbs than the average 3-4. Inability to take on and shed blocks will be forgiven if one can can drop back into coverage and cover TE's. In turn, the DEs need to be able to force double teams as well.

For example; a run to the right side should require the LG and C to double team the NT and RG and RT to double team the LDE to push him out of the gap. The LT will take on the RDE and hold him off long enough for the run to go by him. This allows the LBs to flow freely in the defensive backfield. (This is the ideal)

- I will break the LBs down into four separate sections as they all have their own niche:

- WLB (Suggs): This is probably the most important position other than NT in this defense. This is the hybrid DE/LB and will account for a great deal of your pass rush (Nickel and Dime situations will call for situational pass rushers to add more pass rush). Furthermore, this position will need to be able to drop back in coverage as well as aid in run defense, sealing the edge. The truest definition of a jack of all trades but he better be a master of more than one. I'm assuming this will be where Mathis is played although he will have to do much more than rush the passer. I imagine this will be a stop gap and a player will be found to replace him in the next draft relegating Mathis to pass rush specialist in his later years (I really don't see anyone other than MAYBE Ingram who has the potential to play this position in the draft)

- SLB (Johnson): This is more of a traditional 4-3 OLB and will predominantly responsible for attacking the LOS in run support. Needs to be big and stong to seal the edge on the strong side. Dropping back into coverage will also be important and will provide secondary pass rush.

- RILB (Lewis): I wouldn't be worried about finding a Ray Lewis type player for this position. Obviously having Lewis on your D helps in any situation but the defense is not predicated on this guy and WLB is probably more important to have a star at. IMO the switch to a 3-4 in Bal was actually an attempt to relieve some of the pressure on an aging Lewis.

Regardless, this position is your athletic backer and should be a similar player type to a WLB in a 4-3. Basically should be able to cover the TE and impact the run game. He will be responsible for one of the A gaps and at most should only have to fight off a FB if the DL is doing their job.

- LILB (McClain): This is your big thumper type and probably the most prototypical 3-4 defender. Predominantly a run stuffer and should be able to at least provide some short zone coverage. Should be able to provide some secondary pass rush up the middle. The least important of the LB positions and it is possible to have a rotation of guys at this position.

- The secondary will be less affected although Chucky will prefer bigger CBs who can line up in man coverage with receivers and press them at the LOS.

The strong side safety typically is used in run support and minimal coverage. Should be able to blitz effectively as Chuck likes to mix up who he is blitzing.

4-3:


This change is quite simple. For the most part, the DL will shift towards the strong side of the line allowing the WLB to lineup off the shoulder of the DE (most often with their hand in the dirt)

The SLB will become an OLB and usually then whichever ILB is prefered outside will move to the outside.

Same can occur with the SLB putting their hand in the dirt if preferred although the WLB often does so if it is believed to be a pass rush situation.

Free Agency:

Would like to see the Colts pick up Zibi and Jarret Johnson in FA as they are pretty much prototypes of their positions in the system. (Johnson was probably one of the best players on our defense that no one talked about).

Courtland Finnegan would be another ideal signing if at all possible (not as likely as the others)

Team Layout:


Assuming those signings and my mock draft:

CB --------- FS ---- SS ----- CB
Norman - Bethea - Zibi - Finnegan

WLB --------- LILB ---------- RILB ---------- SLB
Mathis - Someone else - someone else - Johnson

RDE --------------- NT ---- LDE
Someone else - Ta'amu - Wolfe

- I think Powers might be the only suitable CB on your roster and even he would probably be relegated to a nickel/dime type role.

- Kavell Conner might have the athleticism to play inside, possibly LILB. Sims is another option at RILB if he is back although I wouldn't put any money on Sims working out anywhere. Other than that I am not really sure where they intend to find these types of players.

- Ricardo Mathews and Antonio Johnson probably have builds to play DE in the system although I question their ability to creates double teams as well as their functional strength.

- Nevis looks like a sunken pick although he might be useful in nickel situations. This may be true for some of the other DTs as well

- Jamaal Anderson is also likely a lost cause. Same goes for Tyler Brayton, both likely to be let go in FA

- Interestingly enough, Jerry Hughes may find new life in the system as he fits the build and athletic ability to play OLB; although, I won't cross my fingers. Marrio Addison may also be of some service.

I am almost certain that every pick other than the first overall will be used on defense and some serious FA spending is probably in order as well.

In the end, this will not be an easy process nor will it be a speedy one. Look for the transformation to happen over a # of years and pray you don't miss on too many draft picks.

I hope this helped and didn't make you want to jump off a cliff too much.
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Old 03-10-2012, 10:04 PM    (permalink
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I'm trying to get a list of free agents. This is what I got. Let me know if some have been resigned/signed by other teams.

RB
Jerome Felton, RB, Age: 25 No Idea.

WR
Reggie Wayne, WR, Age: 33 Good as gone.
Pierre Garcon, WR, Age: 25 Maybe get him back?
Anthony Gonzalez, WR, Age: 27 Only for cheap.

TE
Jacob Tamme, TE, Age: 26 Hopefully get a reasonable contract.
Anthony Hill, TE, Age: 27 No idea.

OL
Jeff Saturday, C, Age: 36 I'm actually thinking he'll walk or retire.
Ryan Diem, OT, Age: 32 Maybe if it is cheap, otherwise he's gone.
Mike Pollack, OG/C, Age: 27 Hopefully get something nailed down with him.
Jamie Richard, C, Age: 27 Not sure if he is worth it at this point.
Quinn Ojinnaka, OT, Age: 27 No idea.

DL
Eric Foster, DT, Age: 26 Really like this guy not sure if he fits new scheme.
Jamaal Anderson, DE, Age: 26 Heard he would be a good 3-4 DE hopefully we sign him.
Tyler Brayton, DE, Age: 32 No idea.

LB
Phillip Wheeler, LB, Age: 27 Not sure, but maybe ILB?
Ernie Simms, LB, Age: 27 Not sure how he would fit.
Kevin Bentley, LB, Age: 32 No idea.

DB
Jacob Lacey, CB, Age: 24 Hopefully sign him to cheap contract he is a good nickel or dime.
Stevie Brown, DB, Age: 24 No idea.
David Caldwell, DB, Age: 24 No idea.

Yeah my evaluations aren't really all that great. I mostly just want to see who you guys think will stay and go. If they stay (on defense) what position do they fit?
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Old 03-10-2012, 10:45 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RCAChainGang View Post
I'm trying to get a list of free agents. This is what I got. Let me know if some have been resigned/signed by other teams.

RB
Jerome Felton, RB, Age: 25 No Idea.

I believe Felton was one of the FBs. He did fine, nothing amazing.

WR
Reggie Wayne, WR, Age: 33 Good as gone.
Pierre Garcon, WR, Age: 25 Maybe get him back? I think he'll test the market and then come back to Indy.
Anthony Gonzalez, WR, Age: 27 Only for cheap. He was told by the Colts his contract would not be renewed.

TE
Jacob Tamme, TE, Age: 26 Hopefully get a reasonable contract. I think he's gone.
Anthony Hill, TE, Age: 27 No idea. Me neither.

OL
Jeff Saturday, C, Age: 36 I'm actually thinking he'll walk or retire.
Ryan Diem, OT, Age: 32 Maybe if it is cheap, otherwise he's gone. Time to let his guy go, he hasn't been good since 2007
Mike Pollack, OG/C, Age: 27 Hopefully get something nailed down with him.Nah, he sucks, his effort is so inconsistent.
Jamie Richard, C, Age: 27 Not sure if he is worth it at this point. He sucks.
Quinn Ojinnaka, OT, Age: 27 No idea. A swing tackle like Charlie Johnson but better. I hope they keep him around.

DL
Eric Foster, DT, Age: 26 Really like this guy not sure if he fits new scheme.With his injury he may never play again. He is the new Montae Reagor.
Jamaal Anderson, DE, Age: 26 Heard he would be a good 3-4 DE hopefully we sign him. He's never played 3-4 DE but has the body type and play style. I hope they keep him.
Tyler Brayton, DE, Age: 32 No idea. Gone, nothing special.

LB
Phillip Wheeler, LB, Age: 27 Not sure, but maybe ILB? More of a backup OLB IMO. He was a rush LB in college.
Ernie Simms, LB, Age: 27 Not sure how he would fit.Meh, probably gone.
Kevin Bentley, LB, Age: 32 No idea.

DB
Jacob Lacey, CB, Age: 24 Hopefully sign him to cheap contract he is a good nickel or dime. Vet minimum. He is just a guy.
Stevie Brown, DB, Age: 24 No idea.
David Caldwell, DB, Age: 24 No idea. [b]He can lay a hit but he has poor instincts. Doesn't do well in space. I don't think he'll stick.

Yeah my evaluations aren't really all that great. I mostly just want to see who you guys think will stay and go. If they stay (on defense) what position do they fit?
Thoughts in bold.
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Old 03-13-2012, 09:22 PM    (permalink
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Reggie signed a 3 year 17.5m contract with the Colts. Seems he wasn't getting what he hoped, and the Colts didn't seem so bad. As prepared as I was for him to walk, I'm glad he's back. Luck needs to have a reliable guy. Plus I bet Luck could pick Wayne's brain quite a bit.


Also Garcon to Redskins, 5 years 42.5m, 21 guaranteed. Glad he got payed, and at that rate, glad it wasn't us.
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