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Old 01-11-2012, 04:20 PM    (permalink
KCStud
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Default Pioli: Cassel is our QB in 2012/Must improve OL

http://www.610sports.com/topic/play_...udioId=5634051

Sorry RG3 fans. We aren't moving up to get him. It's OL heavy.
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Old 01-11-2012, 05:33 PM    (permalink
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Default

Then I'll say it now: Pioli has got to go. Not because he isn't going to draft RG3, but because he thinks we're fine at the most important position in football when we're clearly not.

Things aren't going to change and that is the worst news we could have gotten this offseason.
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Old 01-11-2012, 05:37 PM    (permalink
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I still don't understand how Stanzi didn't get a shot to play this year...
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Old 01-11-2012, 05:38 PM    (permalink
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They didn't think he was ready. I'm not a fan of throwing young QBs into the fire, especially not 5th round QBs.
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Old 01-11-2012, 05:41 PM    (permalink
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Default

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Originally Posted by vidae View Post
They didn't think he was ready. I'm not a fan of throwing young QBs into the fire, especially not 5th round QBs.
But what did they have to loseeeeeeeeee?

I never bought the "thrown into the fire" theory. If a QB isn't ready, he comes in and sucks it up. You replace him and continue to work with him until he's finally ready. If he cannot come back from that adversity then he probably wasn't going to be a QB to begin with...

tldr: play all young QBs when you're out of it - the good ones will be able to learn from and improve when the struggle.

*I guess I understand though because the Cheifs thought they were in it and felt Orton and SOMEHOW Palko gave them a better chance to win...
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Old 01-11-2012, 05:44 PM    (permalink
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Default

Orton hitting the market then?


Maybe he'll end up signing for whoever gets Griffin/Tannehill and keeping the seat warm.
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Old 01-11-2012, 06:04 PM    (permalink
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Default

Well hopefully we aren't starting another 15 years of mediocrity, there is going to be a lot of unhappy fans, but its not really surprising and I'm gonna agree with Vidae Pioli needs to go if he can't see that Cassel is not the answer.
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Old 01-11-2012, 06:20 PM    (permalink
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Default

This isn't a surprise, RAC pretty much said the same thing in his PC. Like, I said in the draft thread if a QB falls they will take him but they won't move up for one.

I'm not saying I agree with it just saying...
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Old 01-11-2012, 06:53 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Splat View Post
This isn't a surprise, RAC pretty much said the same thing in his PC. Like, I said in the draft thread if a QB falls they will take him but they won't move up for one.

I'm not saying I agree with it just saying...
They're not interested in a QB, as I've been saying the whole time. They like Stanzi a lot and Cassel led them to a Division Championship working with very little in the passing game. His numbers in normal situation years are very good.

In normal years, he's been comparable, but better than Joe Flacco. And he hasn't had the receiving options that Flacco has had until this upcoming season (provided everyone will be healthy).

He's also a player that gets better as the season goes along, from what we've seen so far. He protects the ball and minimizes negative plays very well. 2010 was not the best Matt Cassel we'll see, and we should be looking forward to him getting a full off-season to work with those receiving weapons and a new offense.

It's easy to jump on the QB when things are going badly, but we all recognize how ****** up the playcalling and gameplanning situations were this year. I see a lot of people trying to compare Cassel to Dilfer, but none of them have ever even looked into the statement. Cassel's worst year is still better than Trent Dilfer's best. He's not a Trent Dilfer-Game Manager. He makes plays and has needed more help in the passing game since he got to KC.
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Old 01-12-2012, 12:46 AM    (permalink
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Default

Cassel is awful. He sucks. He's worse than a game manager because he loses us games. La la la la.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result. In that regard, the Chiefs as an organization are insane. We've been doing the same thing with the QB situation since the early 80s and it will never change.

Oh well. It could be worse. We could be the Raiders or something. ;)
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Old 01-12-2012, 01:43 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by vidae View Post
Cassel is awful. He sucks. He's worse than a game manager because he loses us games. La la la la.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result. In that regard, the Chiefs as an organization are insane. We've been doing the same thing with the QB situation since the early 80s and it will never change.

Oh well. It could be worse. We could be the Raiders or something. ;)
He loses games now? You've completely lost it. You go from "he won't lose it, but he won't win it either" (which isn't true, but I won't kill people for thinking that) to "he loses games" in a stretch when he didn't even play a game. I'm using stats and talking about the situation(s) under which he's operated, you're just making **** up and making intangible arguments/statements that just aren't true.

This isn't the same organization. They did draft Stanzi, who is a better prospect than anything after RG3 & Luck this year and has a strong chance to be a very good starting QB if not more than that. Pioli has completely rebuilt the inner workings of the organization, and they'll be reaping the benefits (well, they have already) very soon and for a long time.

When you draft a first round QB just to draft a first round QB (which is what you want) you end up with guys like Losman, Campbell, Boller, Quinn, Grossman, Ramsey, Blackledge, etc. If the right guy isn't there, you pass. Always. If the right guy is there, and you believe you need to get a QB, you do everything you can to get him. Always.
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Old 01-12-2012, 02:13 AM    (permalink
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Are we still pretending Pioli would say otherwise? Come on now guys.
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Old 01-12-2012, 03:24 AM    (permalink
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Are we still pretending Pioli would say otherwise? Come on now guys.
If he really didn't think Cassel was the guy, he would have said something different or used a different tone. For some reason the media tries to paint Pioli as disingenuous when he actually gives them all the information they ask for.
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Old 01-12-2012, 07:28 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by TonyGfortheTD View Post
Are we still pretending Pioli would say otherwise? Come on now guys.
Exactly! After three years a couple of things are clear about Scott Pioli. He does not "suffer fools gladly" and he considers Fescoe a fool (which he is). He also does not show his cards and would not share information that would damage the Chiefs in any way and certainly not with a buffoon like Fescoe. Why would he throw Matt Cassell under the bus for Bob Fescoe? Even if he had come to the conclusion that Cassel isn't the guy who can lead this team to the Super Bowl (as opposed to being "a good football player" and "a good NFL quarterback"), he isn't about to share that evaluation with the rest of the league.

Sure he'll throw away something like "we have to get better on the offensive line" because everyone knows that. Don't read too much into that. Remember this is the same Scott Pioli that said "You know how I feel about safeties that early."
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Old 01-12-2012, 08:50 AM    (permalink
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They're not interested in a QB, as I've been saying the whole time. They like Stanzi a lot and Cassel led them to a Division Championship working with very little in the passing game. His numbers in normal situation years are very good.
The D and running game took the Chiefs to the playoffs, Cassel was just along for the ride.

I'll agree that Cassel had a good season last year, but I still feel it was more Weis and the players around him than it was Cassel.
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Old 01-12-2012, 11:06 AM    (permalink
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Of course it was more the D and the run game last year. All Cassel had to do was not turn the ball over.

And I'm making **** up? Really? Remember the Chargers game? Who threw the interception to lock that one up for San Diego? But I guess you're right.. he hasn't lost us games. That isn't what he's about.

Give me a break. You have absolutely zero idea what you're talking about now. Before you had a little, but now you're completely off the reservation.

And no, I don't want to draft a QB just to draft one, but you shouldn't comment on QBs if you can't see that Luck, RG3 and Tannehill are upgrades over Orton, Cassel and Stanzi at this point. I know you'll disagree, but like usual, you'll be wrong.
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Old 01-12-2012, 11:23 AM    (permalink
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Pioli is a sharp guy. Throwing Cassel under the bus does nothing but harm. Back him up publicly, replace him if you feel there's a better option. Right now, however, you can't replace him so you don't trash him.

I still think Cassel can play, and he's shown that in two of his four seasons. Even if a new QB is drafted / acquired, Cassel's contract is pretty friendly with a bunch of front end money already paid. Unless I'm missing something in the bonus structure (which is entirely possible) it looks like you're on the hook for under 6M in 2012 and 7.5M in 13. The 9M due in 14 is an easy cut if he's clearly not the guy. Orton is not a superior talent - or at least not so much better that you eat a bunch of $$$ on Cassel's contract & re-sign Orton.

A better HC, solid OC and enough time to install a system could put Cassel back into the "decent QB we can win with" category. A favorable schedule doesn't hurt, either.
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Old 01-12-2012, 12:33 PM    (permalink
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Pioli would be insane to say we are looking to replace Cassel this early in the year. Let's just wait and see what happens.

Remember everyone thought he wouldn't take a safety so high.

I'm pretty sure Pioli's not 100% confident in Cassel, when pretty much everyone on the entire planet knows Cassel is pretty average right now.
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Old 01-12-2012, 02:12 PM    (permalink
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I feel like this is Matt's last chance as a QB and he knows it. First year under a new coach. We can afford to see that.

Cassel will be above average if he has time to throw next year. That's a big reason why he was so successful in 2010.
This year he had a new horrible OC and the OL was significantly worse at C, LG and RT.
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Old 01-15-2012, 08:26 PM    (permalink
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The only chance Cassel/Orton are not the QB for the Chiefs next year is if we draft Luck or get Flynn. Even with RG3, Tannehill whomever, they need to sit a year. I am ok with them being the answer for 2012 as long as there is an obvious plan or direction the team is going in. Ill continue in the draft thread
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What's with the hate on Ricky Stanzi? Those youtube clips of him with the hulk hogan theme music instantly make him better than Luck.
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Old 01-16-2012, 12:23 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bored of education View Post
The only chance Cassel/Orton are not the QB for the Chiefs next year is if we draft Luck or get Flynn. Even with RG3, Tannehill whomever, they need to sit a year. I am ok with them being the answer for 2012 as long as there is an obvious plan or direction the team is going in. Ill continue in the draft thread
Ricky Stanzi, sir. It's legit. 2011 was an insane QB class. TJ Yates made some rookie mistakes today, but he and that running game had Houston in position to beat the Ravens and go to the AFC Championship game after winning a tough playoff game against fellow rookie, Ginger Dalton. Stanzi is better than both of those guys.

Stanzi sitting while Cassel starts is a legitimately solid situation for Kansas City. People don't want to get behind it because so many things went wrong this season that they'd rather take the easy cop-out and put it all on the QB situation. I'm surprised how fickle Chiefs fans have been this season.
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Old 01-16-2012, 01:20 AM    (permalink
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Chiefs fans are this way because this behavior isn't new. You're either in denial or flat out stupid if you haven't noticed it before: Free agent QB starter, awful, but we drafted <x> in round <y> who is developing! Remember when Brodie Croyle was the future starter in KC?

Give me a break. We're not fickle, we're ******* FED UP. This franchise has been irrelevant for THREE DECADES using this formula.

Keep yapping about Stanzi all you want, or how Cassel is a good QB and you're the only one that realizes it, etc etc yadda yadda, it's all a big yawnfest. You're not right. You weren't right twelve months ago. You weren't right three months ago. You're not right today. And I'd be willing to bet the farm you're not going to be right tomorrow either, but believe whatever you want, just don't sit here and paint every other Chiefs fan as being wrong when you're the ONLY ONE SAYING WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.

Ask yourself this, what is more believable: EVERY. SINGLE. OTHER. Chiefs fan is wrong about our QB situation and you're right, or you're delusional and have no idea what you're talking about.

Guess which one I'm picking.
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Old 01-16-2012, 08:30 PM    (permalink
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The Chiefs problems are inherited by their moderate amount of success. They'll be picking way to high to get any of the premiere QB's in this draft. And taking a chance on any of the other guys will likely result in the same amount of production that you would get out of Cassel or Stanzi.

Trading up is an expensive possibility and one that Pioli knows is likely not worth it. In any negotation, if you're the one trying to advance your position, then your likely to get a bad deal. The Rams or Vikings would hold all of the power over the Chiefs in any kind of trade where you guys try to jump the Browns for RG3. They'll ask for a lot more than usual because of the quarterback still sitting there ready to be drafted.

Pioli is going to build around Cassel because of how hard it would be to replace him. It's not like he can just go out there and get Andrew Luck or RG3.
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Old 01-16-2012, 09:05 PM    (permalink
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Pioli is going to build around Cassel because of how hard it would be to replace him. It's not like he can just go out there and get Andrew Luck or RG3.
He could if he wanted to. It'd take a lot to trade up but he could do it right now if he wanted.
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Old 01-17-2012, 08:02 AM    (permalink
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There is no way in hell the Colts trade down with us or anyone else. They take Luck as they should and don't look back.
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