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Old 10-11-2013, 02:47 PM    (permalink
D-Unit
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I never said he wouldn't, but he won't really deserve it. Since the 1970s there have been 14 guys make the HOF whose careers were primarily between 1970-2000 (add another one once Favre makes it). That evens out to 5 per decade. Is there any argument to be made that Eli is a top 5 QB over the course of his career? Hell no. He'll get in because the media loves Superbowls and attributes them to quarterbacks. It is what it is, but everyone will know why he's there.
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Old 10-11-2013, 02:48 PM    (permalink
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He'll still be a HOFer, that much is already determined. Even if he doesn't win a third ring.
Does Big Ben get into the Hall using the the 2 SB ring qualification?
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Old 10-11-2013, 02:49 PM    (permalink
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Big Ben definitely gets in if Eli gets in. I don't see how you could argue for Eli but not Ben unless you're bringing personal issues into the equation.
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Old 10-11-2013, 02:55 PM    (permalink
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Big Ben is a STEELERS QB with two rings. He's a lock.

I think some people unintentionally are asking if guys like Eli and Roethlisberger 1st ballot HOFers?? Maybe not, but they both won't wait a decade to get in either.

IMO the only lock 1st ballot HOF QBs playing in the game today are Rodgers/Brady/Peyton/Brees.
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Old 10-11-2013, 03:00 PM    (permalink
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Rodgers is most definitely not a lock for 1st ballot HOF. Especially considering he's only been a starting QB for six seasons.

He'll very very likely make it, but that's assuming he starts at least another 4-6 seasons and does rather well.
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Old 10-11-2013, 03:10 PM    (permalink
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Does Big Ben get into the Hall using the the 2 SB ring qualification?
Of course he does.
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Old 10-11-2013, 03:17 PM    (permalink
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Big Ben is a STEELERS QB with two rings. He's a lock.

I think some people unintentionally are asking if guys like Eli and Roethlisberger 1st ballot HOFers?? Maybe not, but they both won't wait a decade to get in either.

IMO the only lock 1st ballot HOF QBs playing in the game today are Rodgers/Brady/Peyton/Brees.
I wouldn't say Rodgers or Brees are first ballot locks quite yet. Passing stats are exploding so fast that by the time they retire, their all-time great years are going to look a little less spectacular. They're obviously the league's defining players at quarterback, but it wouldn't surprise me at all to see them go on the second or third year after they retire.
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Old 10-11-2013, 03:22 PM    (permalink
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I think the problem is that when people think about the best QBs of this era, Eli and Big Ben just don't pop in our heads on first thought.

When Eli gets in, David Tyree should be his guest of honor.

If the world smartens up in the future and realizes that their teams won SBs and not them alone, then I don't think either get in.

Those were SB caliber DEFENSES that won those SBs. Eli and Big Ben were bus drivers.
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Old 10-11-2013, 03:39 PM    (permalink
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I think the problem is that when people think about the best QBs of this era, Eli and Big Ben just don't pop in our heads on first thought.

When Eli gets in, David Tyree should be his guest of honor.

If the world smartens up in the future and realizes that their teams won SBs and not them alone, then I don't think either get in.

Those were SB caliber DEFENSES that won those SBs. Eli and Big Ben were bus drivers.
I am NOT a Giants fan in the least, but I did watch every game of both Eli's SB runs. He was not a 'bus driver'. If Eli was playing now like he did during those SB runs, the Giants would be undefeated this season.

In fact there's only a handful of QBs in today's game who IMO would have won a SB with those two Giants' teams.

People love to write off David Tyree's catch as fantastical luck beyond luck, but we all love to forget what it took for Eli to even get that pass off, on target. That pass should have been caught in both hands by Tyree. To be able to wedge it against his helmet with one hand between two defenders had more to do with the accuracy of the throw and less with the WR.

If ELi plays five more years his total yardage and TD numbers will probably be top 10.
Being a Manning may have helped him get drafted 1/1, but everything he's accomplished after that is all on Eli.
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Old 10-11-2013, 05:56 PM    (permalink
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I wouldn't say Rodgers or Brees are first ballot locks quite yet. Passing stats are exploding so fast that by the time they retire, their all-time great years are going to look a little less spectacular. They're obviously the league's defining players at quarterback, but it wouldn't surprise me at all to see them go on the second or third year after they retire.
Brees is an absolute first-ballot lock.

6th all time in passing yards (will be 5th very shortly behind Favre, Manning, Marino, and Elway)

6th all-time in passing TDs (behind Favre, Manning, Marino, Tarkenton, and Brady)

Brady, Manning, and Brees are three of the most prolific passers of all-time. Brees gets overshadowed a bit because of how great Brady and Manning are, but he's an all-time great.
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Old 10-11-2013, 06:02 PM    (permalink
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I think the problem is that when people think about the best QBs of this era, Eli and Big Ben just don't pop in our heads on first thought.
To be fair, I'm not sure who does past the top 4 of Manning, Brady, Brees and Rodgers. In terms of career accomplishments it's

Manning-Brady




Brees




Rodgers









Everyone else


Assuming that at least 5 QBs in the last 10 years get in the HOF (and probably at least a few more than that given how passing has expanded) I don't think it's entirely unreasonable to say that Eli and Big Ben would be the next two on that list, and I'm one of the biggest Eli haters around.
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Old 10-11-2013, 06:29 PM    (permalink
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Big Ben is a STEELERS QB with two rings. He's a lock.
So Charlie Batch is in as well then
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Old 10-12-2013, 03:27 AM    (permalink
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What I've noticed for QB's is that if you win a SB any bad regular season play from that point on is always easily dismissed. No matter what. Mostly it's just overlooked. Yet if you haven't won a SB yet and you have a bad regular season stretch they get roasted and you hear about it consistently.
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Old 10-12-2013, 04:04 AM    (permalink
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What I've noticed for QB's is that if you win a SB any bad regular season play from that point on is always easily dismissed. No matter what. Mostly it's just overlooked. Yet if you haven't won a SB yet and you have a bad regular season stretch they get roasted and you hear about it consistently.
I don't think people's feelings have changed towards Flacco. And folks were calling Kurt Warner finished after he struggled in New York. So it depends who it is.
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Old 10-12-2013, 01:42 PM    (permalink
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I am NOT a Giants fan in the least, but I did watch every game of both Eli's SB runs. He was not a 'bus driver'. If Eli was playing now like he did during those SB runs, the Giants would be undefeated this season.

In fact there's only a handful of QBs in today's game who IMO would have won a SB with those two Giants' teams.

People love to write off David Tyree's catch as fantastical luck beyond luck, but we all love to forget what it took for Eli to even get that pass off, on target. That pass should have been caught in both hands by Tyree. To be able to wedge it against his helmet with one hand between two defenders had more to do with the accuracy of the throw and less with the WR.

If ELi plays five more years his total yardage and TD numbers will probably be top 10.
Being a Manning may have helped him get drafted 1/1, but everything he's accomplished after that is all on Eli.
and five years later he'll be down to 15th
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Old 10-12-2013, 02:51 PM    (permalink
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Rodgers is most definitely not a lock for 1st ballot HOF. Especially considering he's only been a starting QB for six seasons.

He'll very very likely make it, but that's assuming he starts at least another 4-6 seasons and does rather well.
I think Rodgers retires if he has one more concussion. From the very beginning of his career, he's made it clear that football is an important part of his life, but it's not the most important part of his life.
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Old 10-12-2013, 03:00 PM    (permalink
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Here are the guys I think make the HOF if they retired today:

-Manning, Brady, Brees (obvi)
-Champ Bailey
-Tony Gonzalez
-Charles Woodson
-Reggie Wayne
-Ed Reed
-Julius Peppers (I expect some pushback here because Peppers has had a bad reputation and has never really been on a great team, but he's inarguably had a great career if you just look at the numbers)
-Eli, Big Ben, and ARod...maybe? I dunno. Like I said, I still think ARod needs another few seasons to build more of a career resume.
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Old 10-12-2013, 03:25 PM    (permalink
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What I've noticed for QB's is that if you win a SB any bad regular season play from that point on is always easily dismissed. No matter what. Mostly it's just overlooked. Yet if you haven't won a SB yet and you have a bad regular season stretch they get roasted and you hear about it consistently.

Yup. And if you pull a choke job, it's not called a choke job, because if you won a superbowl... you don't choke... except Peyton.
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Old 10-12-2013, 06:34 PM    (permalink
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