BeerBaron's Divisional Round Thoughts

[Jughead10]

Originally Posted by BeerBaron

He'll have his bat **** crazy moments though. Not as bad as Cam Cameron or Brian Schottenheimer, but when the team isn't rolling quite as well, we get those "3rd and 2...better hand it to Jacobs on a draw play out of the shotgun!"

It's like Jason Garrett and his TE screens. They work like, once ever 5000 attempts, but they just keep trying them long after any reasonable person would have pulled the play from the playbook.

Offensive coordinators man...what can be done?

The draw does work sometimes. It's gotten us two key 2pt conversions this year. It's main job is to keep the defense honest. Yeah on third down it can drive you crazy, but it needs to stay in the playbook to keep the defense honest when we run shotgun. It used to work a lot better. Our O-line in general just can't run block like it used to.

And Eli calls a lot of the draws himself.

[BeerBaron]

Originally Posted by Rosebud

The same thing the Colts have done with Peyton, let the QB get more and more authority as he gains greater and greater mastery of the offense.

The problem is though, that offensive coordinators are by nature prideful.

Tom Moore just didn't give a **** and preferred winning to looking like a genius playcaller out for another head coaching job.

Someone like Cam Cameron would never do that. Someone like Mike Martz would never do that. The vast majority would never do that.

You have to find that Dick LeBeau of offense that isn't really interested in a head coaching job elsewhere and just does what is best for the offense.

Originally Posted by Jughead10

The draw does work sometimes. It's gotten us two key 2pt conversions this year. It's main job is to keep the defense honest. Yeah on third down it can drive you crazy, but it needs to stay in the playbook to keep the defense honest when we run shotgun. It used to work a lot better. Our O-line in general just can't run block like it used to.

And Eli calls a lot of the draws himself.

So it has worked like, two of the past 5000 attempts.

[Jughead10]

Originally Posted by BeerBaron

So it has worked like, two of the past 5000 attempts.

It keeps the linebackers flat footed though. If we don't run it, no one will ever hesitate when Eli fakes it. All those deep in and curls to Cruz and Nicks in the middle might not be open.

[Brent]

Originally Posted by Jughead10

I'm tired of the Gilbride complaining. Our offense is top of the league. No one is going to be happy with every play call. But for every draw that you complain about who knows if a different OC calls the right play on 3rd and 9 at midfield, that even gives us a chance to run a draw in the redzone. The offense has shown it works, and works extremely well, when everyone understands it.

Go back and read the gameday thread from the SF/NO game. Everyone was saying the Niners should run the ball more, but the Saints were bringing 8-9 guys in the box and leaving Vernon in one-on-one coverage, of course they are going to throw the ball.

[ShutDwn]

Originally Posted by Brent

Go back and read the gameday thread from the SF/NO game. Everyone was saying the Niners should run the ball more, but the Saints were bringing 8-9 guys in the box and leaving Vernon in one-on-one coverage, of course they are going to throw the ball.

I agree, but they looked inept the entire time trying to throw. I felt like they ran the same slant routes the entire time with Crabtree who came up really small in this game. They also had that pick play twice. Alex's heroics late in the game really saved his ass/statline. They really looked like they were going to lose the entire game when they tried that Ginn end around and then the terrible Gore throw back to Alex on the left side.

They will need to be much better next week if they want to win. The Giants won't need to bring as many men as the Saints did.

I really get disappointed at how teams don't try to develop the run throughout the game. They give up after a few carries. I think it's a result of the scoring sprees, teams have no patience.

[Jughead10]

Originally Posted by ShutDwn

I agree, but they looked inept the entire time trying to throw. I felt like they ran the same slant routes the entire time with Crabtree who came up really small in this game. They also had that pick play twice. Alex's heroics late in the game really saved his ass/statline. They really looked like they were going to lose the entire game when they tried that Ginn end around and then the terrible Gore throw back to Alex on the left side.

Isn't that the whole San Fran passing attack? Slants and double crosses?

[BeerBaron]

Originally Posted by ShutDwn

I agree, but they looked inept the entire time trying to throw. I felt like they ran the same slant routes the entire time with Crabtree who came up really small in this game. They also had that pick play twice. Alex's heroics late in the game really saved his ass/statline. They really looked like they were going to lose the entire game when they tried that Ginn end around and then the terrible Gore throw back to Alex on the left side.

They will need to be much better next week if they want to win. The Giants won't need to bring as many men as the Saints did.

I really get disappointed at how teams don't try to develop the run throughout the game. They give up after a few carries. I think it's a result of the scoring sprees, teams have no patience.

That's what happens a good chunk of the time. I was sort of joking, but not really, in regards to this with Cam Cameron.

Team A is on offense first. Comes out, runs twice for minimal gain and throws incomplete on 3rd down. Punts to Team B. Team B offense marches down the field for a TD.

Team A throws like a maniac from that point forward.

Two scores is not a death sentence in this league. There is no need to abandon the run like some teams do at the first sign of failure.

[Brent]

Originally Posted by Jughead10

Isn't that the whole San Fran passing attack? Slants and double crosses?

Yes, we throw a lot of short passes, and then the occasional deep ball.

Lots of mid-range stuff out of the shotgun.

[hockey619]

BB i like your thoughts on the TE's comin up huge lately. im really curious, what do you all think D's can do in the future to combat them?

A team like the Giants could cover Gronk with say JPP because theyd be good matchups athletically, but can he cover? and they also lose that rush ability which you never want to give up.

im not saying thats what they WOULD do, its just that on defense most teams have their best big athlete at DE or LB and no one else is really going to match up with those kinds of TEs. are teams going to start looking for rangy ends to convert into coverage OLB like manny lawson or something like that?

gronk and graham have torn the league apart this year and I dont see how they wont continue on record breaking paces next season.

[Jughead10]

Originally Posted by hockey619

A team like the Giants could cover Gronk with say JPP because theyd be good matchups athletically, but can he cover? and they also lose that rush ability which you never want to give up.

The Giants would never stick JPP on Gronk to cover but they had JPP hit Finley a ton coming off the LOS, when he lined up as a true TE, before continuing with his rush. It slowed JPP's pass rush but Finley admitted that at least 3 times JPP put him on his rear and other time screwed up timing a bit.

[Giantsfan1080]

Does Davis line up more on the line or do they spread him out a lot?

[hockey619]

Originally Posted by Jughead10

The Giants would never stick JPP on Gronk to cover

Originally Posted by hockey619

A team like the Giants could cover Gronk with say JPP because theyd be good matchups athletically, but can he cover? and they also lose that rush ability which you never want to give up.

im not saying thats what they WOULD do

.......................

im just saying it would take that caliber of an athlete to play with a guy like gronk/graham. im wondering how teams will handle this down the line.

[BeerBaron]

Originally Posted by hockey619

BB i like your thoughts on the TE's comin up huge lately. im really curious, what do you all think D's can do in the future to combat them?

A team like the Giants could cover Gronk with say JPP because theyd be good matchups athletically, but can he cover? and they also lose that rush ability which you never want to give up.

im not saying thats what they WOULD do, its just that on defense most teams have their best big athlete at DE or LB and no one else is really going to match up with those kinds of TEs. are teams going to start looking for rangy ends to convert into coverage OLB like manny lawson or something like that?

gronk and graham have torn the league apart this year and I dont see how they wont continue on record breaking paces next season.

I don't have a way to combat it in mind right now. It'd be a real challenge, I know that.

I think you almost certainly have to do a combination of things. Like Jughead said, have your pass rush "chip" the TE. Teams will chip the pass rusher to slow him down, so doing the same to the TE will have the same result.

With the TE slightly delayed in his route, it would make it easier for someone to cover him. I think you have to do that with a safety, or at least that would be the safer way to do it.

Even the most athletic linebackers in this league will be hard pressed to cover beast TEs like Graham or Gronk. You give up some size if you put a safety on the TE, but the speed would be closer. The safety would have a disadvantage in those tight, over the middle, in traffic type plays where the TE could outmuscle him, but a safety would be less likely to get burnt by the TEs speed than a linebacker.

It'll require a combination of things to slow them down and the league hasn't quite figure it out yet, but defenses are always evolving to combat the new quirks the offenses throw at them.

[Rosebud]

coverage linebackers, your ware, lawson, briggs and boley types that have the speed and athleticism to stick with these TEs while not giving up as much size as DBs do. Either that or DBs with Revis-esque ball skills.

[Ness]

Originally Posted by Brent

I want that SF/NYG game to get here.

Nice to know Candlestick has at least one more NFC Championship game left.

Originally Posted by Giantsfan1080

Does Davis line up more on the line or do they spread him out a lot?

Both. He is on the line sometimes because he's actually a very good blocker. I'd say more so he's spread out wide due to Harbaugh and the 49es passing a lot more.

[BeerBaron]

Originally Posted by Rosebud

coverage linebackers, your ware, lawson, briggs and boley types that have the speed and athleticism to stick with these TEs while not giving up as much size as DBs do. Either that or DBs with Revis-esque ball skills.

Those guys are rare and even with all of their athleticism, they're not going to keep up with someone like a Graham or Davis every time.

[Ness]

By the way I never want to play New Orleans again. Jimmy Graham is got damn annoying. Sproles too.

[Ness]

Packers looked like they took a vacation.

[BradysKnee]

Originally Posted by BeerBaron

The problem is though, that offensive coordinators are by nature prideful.

Tom Moore just didn't give a **** and preferred winning to looking like a genius playcaller out for another head coaching job.

Someone like Cam Cameron would never do that. Someone like Mike Martz would never do that. The vast majority would never do that.

You have to find that Dick LeBeau of offense that isn't really interested in a head coaching job elsewhere and just does what is best for the offense.



So it has worked like, two of the past 5000 attempts.

You are 100% right. OCs are controlling and egotistical. In fact, I once had the pleasure of having a drink with Kevin Gilbride and the guy is a real dick.

[YAYareaRB]

Totally agree. This is the year of the TE. Every successful team had a good one this year minus the broncos? Can you imagine if Tebow had a safety valve in a TE this season?

[BeerBaron]

Originally Posted by YAYareaRB

Totally agree. This is the year of the TE. Every successful team had a good one this year minus the broncos? Can you imagine if Tebow had a safety valve in a TE this season?

He'd probably just overthrow him...or worse.

Throwing to the TE usually means throwing into traffic, and with Tebow's release and accuracy, that would get eaten alive by defenses.

[BradysKnee]

Originally Posted by BeerBaron

He'd probably just overthrow him...or worse.

Throwing to the TE usually means throwing into traffic, and with Tebow's release and accuracy, that would get eaten alive by defenses.

Man BB. If I didn't know any better. I'd think you had something against Tim Tebow :P.

[BeerBaron]

Originally Posted by BradysKnee

Man BB. If I didn't know any better. I'd think you had something against Tim Tebow :P.

Think about what I said. Tebow has a slow release and struggles with accuracy. Neither of those statements is untrue.

[Giantsfan1080]

Giants don't have a great TE.

[BeerBaron]

Originally Posted by Giantsfan1080

Giants don't have a great TE.

I don't think I said that at any point. Now, will Ballard have a Heath Miller-esque key catch or two every game that extends a drive? Absolutely.