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Old 01-16-2012, 12:53 PM    (permalink
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Default Which is Important, QB v. C?

Both are important in reading a defense and getting a first down, but between the two which is important. A QB's ability to read a secondary and audible the pass or a center ability to read the blitz and change the protection?
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Old 01-16-2012, 12:54 PM    (permalink
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Quarterback every time.
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Old 01-16-2012, 01:23 PM    (permalink
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Well it really depends. Some QBs do both so the answer would be QB; then again some QBs do neither so I guess a Center.

It's all situational
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Old 01-16-2012, 01:45 PM    (permalink
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QB can do both, so I'd go with him.
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Old 01-16-2012, 08:02 PM    (permalink
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Default

QB and it isn't close. There is no situation where an NFL QB is less valuable than his center. QBs can be nice and try to pretend like it's true, but it isn't.

There are only a select few situations in a game where the center even has more value than other OL, let alone a QB.

I'd go even farther to say that most defenses will sit back in vanilla looks all day long if the QB doesn't very his snap counts and get them to declare before the snap. If the QB doesn't do that, the center is going to be bum ****** by the rush.

The value of an OL is so over-rated today as far as how important it is to the passing game, it's not even funny. They're told who to block and how to block practically. They just have to execute the block in many cases. If you look at NE (bad example because they have a very good OL), even Ryan Wendell (a very very average NFL backup lineman) can play center well enough to not get raped. Why? Because he's basically put in the perfect position to make the play.

On running plays however. . . it's a lot more complicated.
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Old 01-16-2012, 08:08 PM    (permalink
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QB and it isn't close. There is no situation where an NFL QB is less valuable than his center. QBs can be nice and try to pretend like it's true, but it isn't.

There are only a select few situations in a game where the center even has more value than other OL, let alone a QB.

I'd go even farther to say that most defenses will sit back in vanilla looks all day long if the QB doesn't very his snap counts and get them to declare before the snap. If the QB doesn't do that, the center is going to be bum ****** by the rush.

The value of an OL is so over-rated today as far as how important it is to the passing game, it's not even funny. They're told who to block and how to block practically. They just have to execute the block in many cases. If you look at NE (bad example because they have a very good OL), even Ryan Wendell (a very very average NFL backup lineman) can play center well enough to not get raped. Why? Because he's basically put in the perfect position to make the play.

On running plays however. . . it's a lot more complicated.
I might take Nick Mangold over Mark Sanchez...and Alex Mack over Colt McCoy...and Eric Wood over Ryan Fitzpatrick...
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Old 01-16-2012, 08:57 PM    (permalink
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There is no other position in the NFL that has anywhere near the impact or importance of a quarterback.
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Old 01-16-2012, 09:07 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by descendency View Post
There are only a select few situations in a game where the center even has more value than other OL, let alone a QB.
I was with you for a lot of this... but this is simply not true. There is a reason why Centers are starting to be taken earlier and earlier in the draft. A good man in the pivot can really make a difference on the OL and a really bad one can be quite devastating.

Just look at how the Stealers OL really disintegrated when Pouncey went out and they filled the slot with Legursky. I know the OL was **** to begin with but Pouncey made it somewhat serviceable.

This is especially true with the increase in 3-4 defenses.

Quote:
There is no situation where an NFL QB is less valuable than his center.
I can also make an argument with this but I think APS has put it best.
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Old 01-16-2012, 09:09 PM    (permalink
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An all-pro center being more valuable than a ****** QB doesn't really say anything about the value of their respective positions. You could also argue that David Akers was more valuable than Blaine Gabbert this year. That doesn't speak to anything other than how abysmal Gabbert was.

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Old 01-16-2012, 09:16 PM    (permalink
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An all-pro center being more valuable than a ****** QB doesn't really say anything about the value of their respective positions.
Well taking the extreme of QB's who do both doesn't exactly say anything either.

I might be tempted to take a serviceable center over a serviceable QB. Say... Eric Wood type guy over Alex Smith?

My point is merely the it IS situational. Blain Gabberts, Nick Mangolds... it depends.

If you want to talk Nick Mangold vs. a Brees Rodgers Brady Manning etc. Then yea, the QB. However, if you have a Choice between Gabbert and a Pouncey then you take Pouncey.

It's not a black whit argument and the stereotype of QB's is getting sickening. Yes you need a guy who can play... but in the end its the team as a whole that wins championships... look at what happened to Rogers/Brees this weekend and Peyton Manning over the last decade... TEAMS win championships.
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Old 01-16-2012, 09:19 PM    (permalink
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Well taking the extreme of QB's who do both doesn't exactly say anything either.

I might be tempted to take a serviceable center over a serviceable QB. Say... Eric Wood type guy over Alex Smith?
It depends on whether you are talking about to win now or for the future. A QB like Alex Smith is not difficulty to replace, so I'd take Wood for the future. But if I had to win a game now, then it's a much difference decision, one that would depend on who I had as backups.
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Old 01-16-2012, 10:12 PM    (permalink
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I was with you for a lot of this... but this is simply not true. There is a reason why Centers are starting to be taken earlier and earlier in the draft. A good man in the pivot can really make a difference on the OL and a really bad one can be quite devastating.

Quote:
Are they??? The vast majority of OC's in the NFL were not 1st round picks, they were drafted after the 1st round and some have been All Pros.
Just look at how the Stealers OL really disintegrated when Pouncey went out and they filled the slot with Legursky. I know the OL was **** to begin with but Pouncey made it somewhat serviceable.

Quote:
Your right, Pittsburgh offense hardly suffered with Roethlisber's foot injury which made him immobile. Duh!!!
This is especially true with the increase in 3-4 defenses.

Quote:
H...mmm, NE, Baltimore, San Fran and the Giants and not one of them has a 1st round pick at OC, neither do the Packers, New Orleans, Houston, Denver, Atlanta, Cincy or Detroit so how important is the position in GM's eyes since only 1 playoff team had a 1st round OC.

I can also make an argument with this but I think APS has put it best.
You have no argument, the idea that an OC is more important than a QB is pure rubbish, beyond ridiculous.
Sorry to be so cruel but you were going to get questioned by supporting nonsense.
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Old 01-16-2012, 11:18 PM    (permalink
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To your comments about OC's not going in the first: Thats why I said they are STARTING (key word) to be taken earlier and earlier in the draft. GM's are do realize the value of a good man in the pivot and thus are willing to take them in the first these days.

To your comments about the Steelers: If you didn't see the major issues caused by Legursky starting at center... I can't help you... and you should probably give up on football

Yes Big Ben's injury hurt them. Doesn't change the fact that their line is SIGNIFICANTLY weaker with Legursky being moved over to center.

As to your comment about teams in the playoffs: see my point earlier. Also, not sure what this has to do with 3-4 defenses.

As far as the idea of OC being more important than a QB... most of what you were responding to was my response to the comments about the C being less important than the rest of the OL.

However, in some situations... yes a C may be more valuable. (I'm just repeating myself but you've made me do it) i.e. a Sanchez, McCoy, Gabbert, etc.

Sorry to be so cruel... but you LITERALLY didn't make any sense.
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Old 01-17-2012, 12:37 AM    (permalink
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QB is the most important player in all sports... Done!
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Old 01-17-2012, 12:48 AM    (permalink
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I'll just say I would take the QB's ability to audible :P

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Old 01-17-2012, 01:10 AM    (permalink
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Are you talking about having either one on your team? The best quarterbacks in the NFL are obviously more valuable than the best centers in the NFL. Aren't centers and guards the easiest offensive linemen to scout? Centers more so?
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Old 01-17-2012, 02:17 AM    (permalink
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Both are important.

Given your question does not ask which is more important I will stand by my answer.

QB wins this on a comparative level, ie elite QB is more important than elite C. **** QB will make a team worse than a **** C.
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Old 01-17-2012, 12:38 PM    (permalink
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Depends on the team, but generally, the qb.

A lot of qbs do both, adjust the protections and the routes. For some teams, they allow the C to redirect the protections. You generally see this with teams who have a qb who doesn't do a great job reading defenses.

But that's all the C does as far as audibles. He can't audible out of a pass and into a run or anything of that sort. Only a qb can.
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Old 01-17-2012, 12:43 PM    (permalink
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Define "more important."

In a vacuum, a QB is more important than a center. Dunno how you could make any other argument.

We don't live in a vacuum, though. Look how impossibly bad the Jets were offensively without Mangold. If you don't have a QB who is elite in the pre-snap phase of the game, you'd better have a good center who knows how to read fronts.
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Old 01-18-2012, 07:43 AM    (permalink
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This isn't a Tom Brady v. Nick Mangold thread.

Forget the positions they play, or their value of their positions.

This is simply a which read is more important to scoring points. Is A Center's read of the front 7 more important to making a score, or is it the QB's read of the secondary?
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