Conference Championship Discussion Thread - Page 3

Rosebud · 01-17-2012, 10:38 AM

Maybe I'm oversimplifying things but I just can't see Cam Cameron and Joe Flacco beating Bill Bellicheck and Tom Brady. I'm with BB on this and think Belly is going to sell out against the run, being even willing to give up some big scores early to get Cam to give up on the run and go all pass. And in that game of trickeration I'm going with the master of deception.

As for the Ravens D I'd agree that they're a little over-rated, but only because this year they had great seasons from their top stars who stayed healthy, kinda like the bears D last year, and so there's parts that can be taken advantage of if the stars they have don't make up for them. That's why I think Brady will be able to take advantage of that D, especially if the D is able to bait the Ravens into an up tempo shoot out style game.

HOMER CORNER
This Giants/9ers game has me sick. I genuinely think that the giants can make it through to the superbowl, but both teams are very different from the teams that played in the regular season. That game was Alex Smith’s coming out party in many respects, as the giants sold out to stop the run and Smith was able to take advantage of the soft zones and was able to use his mobility to avoid the minimal pressure we did manufacture. Now he’s coming of a huge 4th quarter performance in a game that has already entered 9ers lore.

Meanwhile the Giants passing attack has grown even sharper so that the mistakes that gave the 9ers their turnovers in the previous matchup are much less common, the running game is a little less futile, as teams ease up on it over the course of the game to focus on our passing game and thus has come through with some key plays.

The biggest difference however is the defense, no longer is the “rush-3, drop 7 and have one guy stick his thumbs up his ass” a staple of our defense. We’re bringing at least 4 on almost every play and we’ve dropped many of the complicated adjustments that lead to so many blown coverages in the regular season.

I can’t fully blame Fewell for that scheme for exactly the same reasons I can’t blame Killdrive fully for his retardedly complex passing concepts, if you have smart guys who have chemistry and experience in the scheme playing together for a while it can become absolutely unstoppable, but what’s infuriating is that he stuck to it in a season where we were losing a solid Corner every other week, starting with the one guy who was better in zones than simple man. With that kind of turnover, expecting guys to be able to communicate well enough to play simple zone is tough enough without expecting them to read the offense to determine which zones they need to be dropping into.

Looking at the matchups from the perspective of a giants fan, here are the areas that I think will make or break this game.

VD and Delanie Walker vs Boley and Jacquain Williams
Last week Alex Smith and Vernon Davis hooked up to eviscerate the saints. For the giants to prevent falling in similar fashion they will need Boley and Williams to play great in coverage. While these two have done a phenomenal job this season they are both smaller guys that a freak like VD could overpower. The Giants have been horrible in the middle of the field for many years but this season that changed as those two did a great job on more finesse TEs like Finley, Witten and Hernandez. What gives me hope is how the team managed to contain Gronk and the Pats passing game in a game I was sure the Pats were not going to loss. Replicating that success will be huge to giving our defense a chance to make the stops we'll need to win.

The Giants DL, what of it?
This ties in with the previous point, the giants DL will need to have a great game since they can’t just pin their ears back and attack the way they could just go after Aaron Rodgers, what would be very unfortunate would be to have to chip their TEs with our Ends if our Linebackers are unable to contain them. While JPP can still affect plays without getting to the QB thanks to his ridiculous orangutan arms, having him hit VD at the line on every play would be a real kick in the balls.

Especially since I’m worried about that running game, so far we haven’t been tested by a running game like this one since our D got its **** together and in the last matchup selling out to stop the run played directly into our soft coverages. If Canty’s not 100% this could end up deciding the game as an effective running game will minimize how much we can go with multiple DEs and our nickel package, something that could prove crucial if we need to start chipping VD off the line and could lead to Alex Smith having all day to run around once again.

What are we going to see from the 9ers D?
The 9ers D has been the league’s best run stuffing unit this season and a big part of that is the mobility of their inside backers that lets them stay in their base D in many situations where other teams need to shift into their nickel packages. For a team as bad at running the ball and as dedicated to balance as the giants this will be a huge battle. If the giants passing game can force the 9ers to back out of their base packages the running game will get the opportunity to make some plays. Something that has a tremendous impact on our offensive efficiency since Eli needs to face less 3rd and super longs, even if Eli has been on fire on them so far. Additionally keeping Aldon and Jason Smith off of Eli is going to be a struggle that the credible threat of a running game would be really helpful for. Fortunately the giants passing game is clicking so I have a good feeling about this one, unlike the matchup of our Run D against Frank Gore and that big OL.

Which ever side is able to win these battles will go a long way to determining the winner of the game. What makes this so hard for me is that I could see those matchups going either way and I’m not sure how either team will carry their momentum into this game, seeing the 9ers come out flat after their epic first playoff win in almost a decade wouldn’t surprise me at all and seeing the giants come out sloppy with the media blowing hot air up their asses after the back to back smackdowns they’ve laid on the opposition would surprise me even less. That said I think both teams will come out firing and this will settle into another physical battle that may just come down to who has the ball in their hands last.

Jughead10 · 01-17-2012, 10:45 AM

Is Delanie Walker going to play?

Rosebud · 01-17-2012, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jughead10

Is Delanie Walker going to play?

I think he's still questionable? Would be sweet if he didn't and we could try both Boley and Williams out on VD to see which one does better against him and let the other guy have more freedom, the way we played Finley with Williams for the most part while Boley got to stick in a zone.

BeerBaron · 01-17-2012, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rosebud

Maybe I'm oversimplifying things but I just can't see Cam Cameron and Joe Flacco beating Bill Bellicheck and Tom Brady.

I've been saying for a while now that I don't think the Ravens can ever win a Superbowl with Cam Cameron. He's a slightly less extreme version of Mike Martz.

Giantsfan1080 · 01-17-2012, 10:53 AM

From early comments it sounded like Walker thought he'd be ready to play.

BeerBaron · 01-17-2012, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giantsfan1080

From early comments it sounded like Walker thought he'd be ready to play.

Walker himself seems to think he'll be ready to go:
https://twitter.com/#!/Dwalk46/statu...53338001850369

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...dition-sunday/

Team is less sure.

bantx · 01-17-2012, 10:54 AM

I'm hoping for a Ravens and 49ners superbowl. Please knock Eli off, it's always hard to like Eli with my bias against him, but he's playing so good right now.

hockey619 · 01-17-2012, 10:57 AM

even as a giants fan, i wouldnt be too down if the 9ers made it to play the ravens. I just dont want to see the patriots win, i cant handle all the extreme smugness from their irritatingly arrogant fans. youd think it was actually them that won those super bowls and not the team...

BeerBaron · 01-17-2012, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockey619

even as a giants fan, i wouldnt be too down if the 9ers made it to play the ravens. I just dont want to see the patriots win, i cant handle all the extreme smugness from their irritatingly arrogant fans. youd think it was actually them that won those super bowls and not the team...

Ohhhh, they're nowhere near as bad as the Packer fans would have been winning two straight.

I can see the threads now...

"Aaron Rodgers, GOAT?"

"2010-11 Packers, GOATT?

<twitch><twitch>

Iamcanadian · 01-17-2012, 11:08 AM

Well both games appear to be a toss up IMO.

I'm thinking the Giants and Eli are on another one of those runs and San Fran will have a really tough time stopping them but it should be close.

I love Tom Brady as a QB, one of the best I've ever seen, and I think they win especially if Reed cannot play or is playing at half speed because of his injury. However, Baltimore has won a lot of big games this season so it should be close.

Should be a great weekend with outstanding football.

BeerBaron · 01-17-2012, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iamcanadian

Well both games appear to be a toss up IMO.

I'm thinking the Giants and Eli are on another one of those runs and San Fran will have a really tough time stopping them but it should be close.

I love Tom Brady as a QB, one of the best I've ever seen, and I think they win especially if Reed cannot play or is playing at half speed because of his injury. However, Baltimore has won a lot of big games this season so it should be close.

Should be a great weekend with outstanding football.

*At home. 8-0 there, 4-4 on the road with embarrassing losses, including to the likes of Jacksonville.

Jughead10 · 01-17-2012, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeerBaron

*At home. 8-0 there, 4-4 on the road with embarrassing losses, including to the likes of Jacksonville.

That Jacksonville game is so long ago at this point it is irrelevant. Everyone seems to be on our bandwagon and we lost to the damn Foreskins twice. I'd just be more concerned with how the Ravens played this past week. If they play like that against the Patriots, they will not win. They also didn't play exceptionally well in week 17 either.

BeerBaron · 01-17-2012, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jughead10

That Jacksonville game is so long ago at this point it is irrelevant. Everyone seems to be on our bandwagon and we lost to the damn Foreskins twice. I'd just be more concerned with how the Ravens played this past week. If they play like that against the Patriots, they will not win. They also didn't play exceptionally well in week 17 either.

Last week:

0 sacks, 2 QB hits

Flacco 50% completion

Rice <3.0 ypc

Gimpy Ed Reed

AND on the road where they are 4-4 on the year and lost to the likes of Jacksonville.

I don't have much confidence in the Ravens needless to say.

Complex · 01-17-2012, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BradysKnee

The media disagrees with you on Baltimore. NFLN ESPN etc are preaching that New England isn't physical enough and won't last.

Are you serious? the media has been on Belichecks nuts saying he is back. He is turning free agents cast offs like Sterling Moore into starter. Moving a struggling Devin McCourty to safety. Putting Julian Eldman(sp?) on defense. How that ravens don't have much of a shot without Ed Reed being healthy.

KCJ58 · 01-17-2012, 11:25 AM

Wheres the pick em' thread?

Complex · 01-17-2012, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeerBaron

Last week:

0 sacks, 2 QB hits

Flacco 50% completion

Rice <3.0 ypc

Gimpy Ed Reed

AND on the road where they are 4-4 on the year and lost to the likes of Jacksonville.

I don't have much confidence in the Ravens needless to say.

It's not like the Patriots have been dominating besides against Tebow. They were down 21-0 against the Bills and came back to score 49 unanswered points but that had a lot to do with Stevie Johnson being benched after his TD celebration. Against the redskins and Dolphins they barely won.

BeerBaron · 01-17-2012, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Complex

It's not like the Patriots have been dominating besides against Tebow. They were down 21-0 against the Bills and came back to score 49 unanswered points but that had a lot to do with Stevie Johnson being benched after his TD celebration. Against the redskins and Dolphins they barely won.

All totally true, won't argue that.

It's just a feeling I have. I look at the teams...one led by Tom Brady and Bill Belichick and playing with a playoff fire I haven't seen in a long time with them...and the other led by Joe Flacco with Cam Cameron calling plays. And coming off of a game where they couldn't even touch the 3rd string rookie QB in the pocket.They barely won while being gifted turnovers, something I doubt the Patriots will hand them.

hockey619 · 01-17-2012, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeerBaron

Ohhhh, they're nowhere near as bad as the Packer fans would have been winning two straight.

I can see the threads now...

"Aaron Rodgers, GOAT?"

"2010-11 Packers, GOATT?

<twitch><twitch>

eh ive been reading the boards since fall of 04 and they were pretty bad then, very comparable to the packers now. but eh hopefully we'll have to deal with neither and the pats will somehow lose to the ravens this weekend.

FlyingElvis · 01-17-2012, 11:33 AM

The Giants / 49ers game should be a great one, with the last possession making the difference. Defense wins championships. The 49ers bring the D and apparently can play some offense, too. I do think the Giants are playing their best football at the right time, though. It's just a question of whether or not they get the ball last.

The Pats / Ravens game is the one I think turns into a blowout. The only problem I am having is that it could go either way. If NE comes out fired up and playing great it could easily be a Patriots rout. But this D can give up tons of yardage and the Ravens can trample the Patriots morale quickly if they can score early. Selling out to stop the run is cool and all, but can backfire pretty quickly when you have an atrocious defensive backfield.

Pressure up the middle is the difference with Brady. The lack of middle pressure from the Broncos had me reasonably optimistic for that game. The same can't be said for the Ravens.

gpngc · 01-17-2012, 11:38 AM

I think people are confusing the Ravens playing very poorly with the Texans playing pretty well. Aside from a few drops, the game circumstances (rookie QB on the other side, playing with the lead for the majority) made it completely understandable that the Ravens offense looked the way it did. But the main reason was that Houston defense. Wade Phillips did a hell of a job with that group.

It's a week-to-week league. Baltimore will play well this week. Everyone is on their case because they were least impressive in victory. Fact is, last week doesn't matter at all this Sunday at 3:30.

BradysKnee · 01-17-2012, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gpngc

I think people are confusing the Ravens playing very poorly with the Texans playing pretty well. Aside from a few drops, the game circumstances (rookie QB on the other side, playing with the lead for the majority) made it completely understandable that the Ravens offense looked the way it did. But the main reason was that Houston defense. Wade Phillips did a hell of a job with that group.

It's a week-to-week league. Baltimore will play well this week. Everyone is on their case because they were least impressive in victory. Fact is, last week doesn't matter at all this Sunday at 3:30.

Well said.

BeerBaron · 01-17-2012, 11:40 AM

Yes, let's never take anything that ever happened in the past into consideration for predicting future events. I'm sure that will go well. Let's eliminate history classes from schools too, because why not?

Jvig43 · 01-17-2012, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockey619

eh ive been reading the boards since fall of 04 and they were pretty bad then, very comparable to the packers now. but eh hopefully we'll have to deal with neither and the pats will somehow lose to the ravens this weekend.

I wasn't around until 2007 (was following as a non member in 2006) and outside of RC (who rarely posts anymore) I think the Pats fans on this board are all pretty awesome modest guys so hopefully thats not what your referring to.

BradysKnee · 01-17-2012, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeerBaron

Yes, let's never take anything that ever happened in the past into consideration for predicting future events. I'm sure that will go well. Let's eliminate history classes from schools too, because why not?

I think he's referring to the fact each game is its own battle and things in the nfl change very quickly.

BeerBaron · 01-17-2012, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BradysKnee

I think he's referring to the fact each game is its own battle and things in the nfl change very quickly.

I won't necessarily disagree with that but when you look back over the season...see the Ravens at 4-4 on the road...the lousy game they had last week...

And I keep breaking it down to this. Who do you take if pressed? A Bill Belichick coached team with Tom Brady at QB or a team with Joe Flacco at QB and Cam Cameron calling the shots?

I just don't like the Ravens in this matchup.