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Old 01-20-2012, 03:40 PM    (permalink
keylime_5
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Originally Posted by BeerBaron View Post
This is dumb as hell. You sound like the Lions fans who pissed and moaned wanting Smith/Curry over Stafford because "they couldn't protect or help a rookie QB." Or the Rams fans who wanted Suh over Bradford because "they couldn't protect or help a rookie QB." Or the Falcons fans who wanted Dorsey over Ryan because "they couldn't protect or help a rookie QB."

You get the QB when you can get the QB. You do not succeed in the NFL without one and any year you don't have one is a wasted year.

End discussion, figurative lock thread.
Truth. I always find the arguments to be comical for lack of a better word that say don't pick a QB b/c the offensive line is bad or there are no weapons. The Lions O-Line was a big issue when they took Stafford. I guess they should have taken Curry or Smith.

No doubt you need talent up front and at WR for a QB to succeed - but if you don't have a QB to start with what's the point? Get your franchise QB and BUILD AROUND him. That's what they mean by that saying.
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Old 01-20-2012, 04:38 PM    (permalink
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This is dumb as hell. You sound like the Lions fans who pissed and moaned wanting Smith/Curry over Stafford because "they couldn't protect or help a rookie QB." Or the Rams fans who wanted Suh over Bradford because "they couldn't protect or help a rookie QB." Or the Falcons fans who wanted Dorsey over Ryan because "they couldn't protect or help a rookie QB."

You get the QB when you can get the QB. You do not succeed in the NFL without one and any year you don't have one is a wasted year.

End discussion, figurative lock thread.
Most people aren't arguing they should pass on him but rather that they should make damn sure he's going to be great before they give up their draft for him. If he makes it to #4 almost everyone agrees they should take him. And one guy who doesn't agree shouldn't take the conversation off of the much more interesting discussion of what the risk of Griffin not falling to 4 is worth to the Browns.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 01-20-2012, 04:42 PM    (permalink
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Most people aren't arguing they should pass on him but rather that they should make damn sure he's going to be great before they give up their draft for him. If he makes it to #4 almost everyone agrees they should take him. And one guy who doesn't agree shouldn't take the conversation off of the much more interesting discussion of what the risk of Griffin not falling to 4 is worth to the Browns.
As a QB elitist, there are 2 QBs I like in this draft. One is Luck who there is a 99% chance of him going #1.

I am of the mindset that you do what you have to do to get a franchise caliber QB. Griffin has the tools to be that and has the athleticism to bring a Newton-esque spark to any offense.

I would unquestionably move up to the #2 and guarantee that I get him if I am Cleveland. Otherwise, you're left to sift through the ashes later in the first and...most of those guys have no business being anywhere near the first round.
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Old 01-20-2012, 10:39 PM    (permalink
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This is dumb as hell. You sound like the Lions fans who pissed and moaned wanting Smith/Curry over Stafford because "they couldn't protect or help a rookie QB." Or the Falcons fans who wanted Dorsey over Ryan because "they couldn't protect or help a rookie QB."


Yep. Same arguments I always hear on this site, always. Some fans are so afraid to get a franchise QB they want to suck forever until they get every single position filled out top to bottom on the entire team.
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I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.
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Old 01-20-2012, 11:10 PM    (permalink
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Yep. Same arguments I always hear on this site, always. Some fans are so afraid to get a franchise QB they want to suck forever until they get every single position filled out top to bottom on the entire team.
I think the big fear is failing on a top QB, period. That can set you back years, especially if your staff deems said player the "franchise QB" year after year.
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Old 01-20-2012, 11:12 PM    (permalink
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I think the big fear is failing on a top QB, period. That can set you back years, especially if your staff deems said player the "franchise QB" year after year.
It's better to roll the dice. If you want to be a perennial contender, you must have a quality QB.

This is simply the way of the league right now. Miss on a QB and it might set you back a few years...HIT on a QB and you're set for a decade.
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Old 01-20-2012, 11:16 PM    (permalink
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I think the big fear is failing on a top QB, period. That can set you back years, especially if your staff deems said player the "franchise QB" year after year.

I get that. But what part of that would be any different then what Cleveland has been the past 10 years?
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I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.
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Old 01-20-2012, 11:18 PM    (permalink
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I get that. But what part of that would be any different then what Cleveland has been the past 10 years?
Yeah, instead we decide to take third rounders, people from other teams practice squads, a quarterbacks with huge question marks in the first round.

Our only legit #1 QB we have taken was Couch and he had literally nothing around him year one.
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Old 01-20-2012, 11:29 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, instead we decide to take third rounders, people from other teams practice squads, a quarterbacks with huge question marks in the first round.

Our only legit #1 QB we have taken was Couch and he had literally nothing around him year one.
Well that was an expansion team too. No matter how poorly you think of your current surrounding cast, they're 1000x better than any expansion roster.
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Old 01-20-2012, 11:50 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by BeerBaron View Post
It's better to roll the dice. If you want to be a perennial contender, you must have a quality QB.

This is simply the way of the league right now. Miss on a QB and it might set you back a few years...HIT on a QB and you're set for a decade.
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I get that. But what part of that would be any different then what Cleveland has been the past 10 years?

I don't disagree at all. But imagine being a fan of a team that drafted someone like Joey Harrington, JaMarcus, and dare I say Blaine, with a top pick. It's very scary to think your franchise will be ****** a few more years. That's not what teams/fans invision with the number one pick.
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Old 01-20-2012, 11:53 PM    (permalink
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But you have to keep trying. Just because the last one didn't work out doesn't mean you should stop drafting QBs.
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Old 01-20-2012, 11:58 PM    (permalink
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But you have to keep trying. Just because the last one didn't work out doesn't mean you should stop drafting QBs.
Franchises don't work like that unfortunately. They don't want to admit they failed. Imagine drafting a Gabbert and sticking with him for at least 3+ years. That's scary as ****, and what most fans fear when picking early.
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Old 01-21-2012, 12:05 AM    (permalink
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Franchises don't work like that unfortunately. They don't want to admit they failed. Imagine drafting a Gabbert and sticking with him for at least 3+ years. That's scary as ****, and what most fans fear when picking early.
Well if you don't want a QB until an Andrew Luck came around you'd be rolling with old stop gap veteran QB's forever. How often do you get a sure fire, can't miss QB? A ton of Lions fans didn't want Stafford, a ton. As good of a prospect he was we heard the same arguments. There is always going to be risk attached, that goes without saying. You can try and build the line up with early picks on lineman that fail too.
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I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.
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Old 01-21-2012, 12:05 AM    (permalink
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I can't believe the browns fans are worried about giving up the 4th and 22nd pick for rg3. Who cares about the 22nd pick. Rg3 is going to be special
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Old 01-21-2012, 12:09 AM    (permalink
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Well if you don't want a QB until an Andrew Luck came around you'd be rolling with old stop gap veteran QB's forever. How often do you get a sure fire, can't miss QB? A ton of Lions fans didn't want Stafford, a ton. As good of a prospect he was we heard the same arguments. There is always going to be risk attached, that goes without saying. You can try and build the line up with early picks on lineman that fail too.


That's what I'm saying. It's much more comforting thinking you can go 7-9, 8-8 with (insert vet QB here) as opposed to thinking you are doomed to 3-12 through 5-11 for 3+ years with a ****** QB. Fans have way too much confidence in GMs saying 2 years in, "I ****** up, it's time to move on." or building year after year until you finally find that QB.
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Old 01-21-2012, 12:39 AM    (permalink
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Yeah, instead we decide to take third rounders, people from other teams practice squads, a quarterbacks with huge question marks in the first round.

Our only legit #1 QB we have taken was Couch and he had literally nothing around him year one.
You do realize that as a Franchise we have only taken 3 QB's in the 1st round since the merger in 1970 right? It's only 2 if you don't count Kosar in the supplemental draft.

The fans of Cleveland are so scared of drafting a bust that they want to get a Franchise QB on the cheap. They constantly bring up the once in a decade stories like Brady in the 6th and Warner as an UDFA. I bet if you polled Cleveland fans on where is the best place to get a Franchise QB, the 1st round would come in last.

On theOBR, there is a HUGE group of Fans that want a RIGHT TACKLE with pick #4. I am not joking! The want Riley Reif or Kalil to fall to us.

So all you non-Browns fans have to understand what the thinking is of the average Browns Fan is:

1. QB's are not the reason Teams get better. It's the player surrounding them. No QB in the History of the League has risen the play of his teammates. he is COMPLETELY dependent on his surrounding cast.

2. Left Tackle is BY FAR and away the MOST IMPORTANT position i nall of sports, not just football. Who cares that we have the best LT in Football and our Offense averages a 29th rank since he's been here.

3. Marginal QB's (like Colt Mccoy) can win if given a 1st round pick at all 5 O-line positions and an all pro at all other offensive positions. But, all those All-Pro's need to be 4th rounders atg the highest. UDFA's are preferred.

4. Defense wins Championships!!

5. Free Agents all want to come to Cleveland. With our great weather, party life and phenomonal schools. Who wouldn't want to raise their children here and spend the offseason here?
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Old 01-21-2012, 01:04 AM    (permalink
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That's what I'm saying. It's much more comforting thinking you can go 7-9, 8-8 with (insert vet QB here) as opposed to thinking you are doomed to 3-12 through 5-11 for 3+ years with a ****** QB. Fans have way too much confidence in GMs saying 2 years in, "I ****** up, it's time to move on." or building year after year until you finally find that QB.
If a guy drafts a Gabbert type and he's a **** up, then that guy won't be around to draft the next QB.

You HAVE to take the chance. You HAVE to. Ideally, your team wouldn't be ******** enough in the first place to take someone like Gabbert, but it happens. When that guy proves to be a bust and the GM/coaching staff are rightfully shown the door, the next staff needs to get right on taking the next QB.
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Old 01-21-2012, 03:07 AM    (permalink
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Again, I'd like to point out that I'm not against drafting RGIII at #4 if available, but I am against giving up picks to move up when the talent around him is among the worst supporting cast in the league.
Like I said, a lot of things still have to unfold before late April. Both Miami and Washington could remove themselves from the quarterback market with free agent signings and clear the path for Cleveland. But, if the front office is sold on Griffin and prepared to draft him at four, then it isnít some kind of unmitigated disaster if the Browns move up to secure his services for the next decade. It just isnít. Weíre talking about a quarterback with big-time talent. Those donít come cheap, but if you find one, they become invaluable assets for your franchise. Compared to that, everything else is secondary. Everything.

And I doubt it would cost multiple picks to move up a couple spots. It would surprise me if the Rams got that kind of ransom. Right now, I believe St. Louis is looking to add an extra selection and still land one of their top targets. Cleveland is the sole team that meets their criteria unless Dre Kirkpatrickís stock settles around a fringe top five pick. Then Washington becomes a stronger contender. Again, I doubt it involves Atlantaís first-rounder, too. That would be a steep asking price. I know it. You know it. Holmgren and Heckert know it. In all likelihood, weíre talking about surrendering a second-rounder. At that point, the Browns can either call the Rams on their bluff and hope Griffin slides or postpone addressing quarterback. And for what? On the risk that a back like Lamar Miller or David Wilson might be there? I like both runners quite a bit, but no thanks. Not if it means passing on RGIII.

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Originally Posted by fear the elf View Post
Cudders, I think you are being far too kind in your evaluation of our current roster and, as you mentioned, there is no guarantee that Hillis (arguably the most talented skill player) will even be back.
I donít think I am. Iím talking skill sets, not on-field production. Itís clear the latter is lackluster. No one is going to argue that.

But, if weíre just examining skill sets, I think I was fair in those assessments. Little was at the top of that second-tier of receivers for me and I donít see what I said that isnít true. Heís raw, but heís built in the mold of a starting-caliber possession receiver. Big-bodied, deceptive short-area athlete, aggressive runner after the catch, compensates for his lack of blistering speed with a strong underneath game. All of those things are in his scouting report. He still needs more seasoning, but I believe he can ball in this league. As for Massaquoi, he has the tools to be a capable deep threat. Adequate straight-line speed, long arms, large hands, explosive leaper, and has shown heís able to adjust in midair. Those are NFL traits for a vertical receiver and Massaquoi has them. Now, I wasnít attempting to paint him into a stud. The point I was making is that Massaquoi has a specific skill set thatís tailored to filling a certain role and Colt never took advantage of that, so he has been a forgotten miscast when a better quarterback mightíve made more use for him. I even mentioned that I would be looking for an upgrade due to the fact that heís been inconsistent his whole career and still has maddening lapses of concentration too often. What is there to disagree about with Cribbs? First and foremost, heís a special team weapon that can flip the field, as heís proven time and again. After that, he has some gadget potential and home-run hitting abilities as a fourth or fifth receiver. Thatís not glowing over him.

As for our tight ends, I donít think people would disagree with labeling them as pass-catchers. Watson is a gifted athlete for that position. Granted, heís got his issues with drops, but heís still a solid outlet. And, to me, Moore should be featured more in the offense. Heís got plus athleticism and his length makes him a tough cover for linebackers and safeties. He can even split out wide, too.

Yeah, Hillis might not be back. Running games can be manufactured though. There are a lot of talented athletes in the college ranks that can run in this league. High-profile backs arenít a requirement for productive, respectable rushing attacks.

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I guess I'm a little confused by those that say "give up whatever it takes" to get yourself a (possible) franchise QB. Are you making these comments keeping in mind the current offensive talent on this roster or in a vacuum? I ask because I feel like people think that a rookie QB is going to magically elevate the play of the offense somehow. We are talking about a rookie, not some 5 year vet...
First off, all prized quarterback prospects are just possible franchise quarterbacks. Doesnít matter if itís this draft or the next or the draft after that. When the time comes for the Browns to draft one, thereís going to be risk involved and thereís no getting around that.

Also, I never stated the Browns should gut their entire draft to grab Griffin. I said the price of a second-rounder (because Iím unconvinced it would cost Atlantaís first) is justified given the value of a quarterback if it appears the Dolphins or Redskins are prepared to pounce. Thatís all Iíve maintained.

With regards to the question, I donít prescribe to the same belief that a complete team needs to be in-place for a quarterback to succeed. Itís as simple as that. Itís much easier to find a running back, a pair of wide receivers, and a right side of the line than a franchise quarterback. If Griffin passes the test, thereís no reason to pass on him.

For example, letís operate under the alternative method of team-building for a minute. Letís assume the Rams wonít budge on their request and insist that Atlantaís first-rounder is included in the deal. As a result, the Browns bow out of the sweepstakes and a team leapfrogs them to take Griffin. So, sitting at four, Cleveland takes Trent Richardson to give their eventual quarterback a beast workhorse. But, in the time it takes to find that quarterback, Richardson accumulates a ton of wear and tear on his tires because a bad offense must ride him to be mediocre. Suppose Cleveland takes Blackmon instead to give their eventual quarterback a top-flight, go-to receiver. Well, Blackmon isnít guaranteed to become that. These are unknown commodities weíre dealing with. What if he busts? Do the Browns have to wait around and draft another receiver with a top five pick before targeting a quarterback?

And I donít expect a rookie to step into the huddle with a firm command of the offense. Or expect him to elevate an offense to prolific heights with a string of superhuman efforts. I just expect him to set a direction on that side of the ball and progress from there. If the front officeís scouting is sharp, then surrounding him with talent he can elevate is the easier of the two steps.

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So the guys that got the "least" help where probably Brady, Brees, Vick, and Stafford, right? So I guess if we trade up using our #22 pick to get RGIII we can expect him to elevate the play of his team if he's a HOFer and possible GOAT (Brady); a HOFer (Brees), a mediocre QB that goes to jail, gets signed by a much more talented team, and rides the bench for a year (Vick); or has a Decepticon (and probable HOFer at this rate) at WR (Stafford). [/sarcasm]
Except it isnít even close to the Ďthis or thatí proposition itís being made out to be here.

If the Browns trade up to draft RGIII second overall, thereís nothing stopping them from improving the rest of the team elsewhere. In all likelihood, it would cost the Browns one pick. That still leaves the rest of the draft and free agent additions. If itís the second-rounder, that leaves them Atlantaís first-rounder to work with. If his stock doesnít soar, and it wouldnít surprise me if it does, Kendall Wright could still be available. Heís an explosive target thatís a perfect compliment to Little and it pairs Griffin with his college teammate. And the Browns have enough cash to be an active spender this off-season. It is more than plausible Cleveland could sign both a receiver and running back to ease the stress on their rookie quarterback. Even if itís just a reliable, zone-busting slot receiver and a check-down option out of the backfield.

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Almost nobody does it on their own, you need talent around a young QB. Anybody that thinks this team is talented enough to just trade away a 1st RD pick and insert RGIII into the lineup and he's going to succeed isn't facing the facts. This offense is bereft of NFL caliber starters at the skill positions.
And almost no team has the time to stack all of the cupboards with premium talent. A quarterback is the most important ingredient of offensive success. The fixings after that improve the flavor. The fact is that this teamís biggest need is at quarterback. Period. It has gone unaddressed for a decade and the team has been a perennial cellar-dweller as a result. Blackmon or Richardson isnít going to reverse that trend either.

Digressing from specifics to generalities, the new rookie cap structure makes it easier to move on from underwater quarterback situations. Their contract is guaranteed in full, but the deal is shorter and the number is lower. Therefore, bad decisions in the quarterback department arenít as crippling to a franchise. So it would stun me if Blaine Gabbert survives another season without the Jaguars picking a quarterback, former top ten pick or not. The NFL is too quarterback-driven to ignore the position and put your team behind the eight ball.
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Old 01-21-2012, 03:13 AM    (permalink
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Like I said, a lot of things still have to unfold before late April. Both Miami and Washington could remove themselves from the quarterback market with free agent signings and clear the path for Cleveland. But, if the front office is sold on Griffin and prepared to draft him at four, then it isnít some kind of unmitigated disaster if the Browns move up to secure his services for the next decade. It just isnít. Weíre talking about a quarterback with big-time talent. Those donít come cheap, but if you find one, they become invaluable assets for your franchise. Compared to that, everything else is secondary. Everything.

And I doubt it would cost multiple picks to move up a couple spots. It would surprise me if the Rams got that kind of ransom. Right now, I believe St. Louis is looking to add an extra selection and still land one of their top targets. Cleveland is the sole team that meets their criteria unless Dre Kirkpatrickís stock settles around a fringe top five pick. Then Washington becomes a stronger contender. Again, I doubt it involves Atlantaís first-rounder, too. That would be a steep asking price. I know it. You know it. Holmgren and Heckert know it. In all likelihood, weíre talking about surrendering a second-rounder. At that point, the Browns can either call the Rams on their bluff and hope Griffin slides or postpone addressing quarterback. And for what? On the risk that a back like Lamar Miller or David Wilson might be there? I like both runners quite a bit, but no thanks. Not if it means passing on RGIII.



I donít think I am. Iím talking skill sets, not on-field production. Itís clear the latter is lackluster. No one is going to argue that.

But, if weíre just examining skill sets, I think I was fair in those assessments. Little was at the top of that second-tier of receivers for me and I donít see what I said that isnít true. Heís raw, but heís built in the mold of a starting-caliber possession receiver. Big-bodied, deceptive short-area athlete, aggressive runner after the catch, compensates for his lack of blistering speed with a strong underneath game. All of those things are in his scouting report. He still needs more seasoning, but I believe he can ball in this league. As for Massaquoi, he has the tools to be a capable deep threat. Adequate straight-line speed, long arms, large hands, explosive leaper, and has shown heís able to adjust in midair. Those are NFL traits for a vertical receiver and Massaquoi has them. Now, I wasnít attempting to paint him into a stud. The point I was making is that Massaquoi has a specific skill set thatís tailored to filling a certain role and Colt never took advantage of that, so he has been a forgotten miscast when a better quarterback mightíve made more use for him. I even mentioned that I would be looking for an upgrade due to the fact that heís been inconsistent his whole career and still has maddening lapses of concentration too often. What is there to disagree about with Cribbs? First and foremost, heís a special team weapon that can flip the field, as heís proven time and again. After that, he has some gadget potential and home-run hitting abilities as a fourth or fifth receiver. Thatís not glowing over him.

As for our tight ends, I donít think people would disagree with labeling them as pass-catchers. Watson is a gifted athlete for that position. Granted, heís got his issues with drops, but heís still a solid outlet. And, to me, Moore should be featured more in the offense. Heís got plus athleticism and his length makes him a tough cover for linebackers and safeties. He can even split out wide, too.

Yeah, Hillis might not be back. Running games can be manufactured though. There are a lot of talented athletes in the college ranks that can run in this league. High-profile backs arenít a requirement for productive, respectable rushing attacks.



First off, all prized quarterback prospects are just possible franchise quarterbacks. Doesnít matter if itís this draft or the next or the draft after that. When the time comes for the Browns to draft one, thereís going to be risk involved and thereís no getting around that.

Also, I never stated the Browns should gut their entire draft to grab Griffin. I said the price of a second-rounder (because Iím unconvinced it would cost Atlantaís first) is justified given the value of a quarterback if it appears the Dolphins or Redskins are prepared to pounce. Thatís all Iíve maintained.

With regards to the question, I donít prescribe to the same belief that a complete team needs to be in-place for a quarterback to succeed. Itís as simple as that. Itís much easier to find a running back, a pair of wide receivers, and a right side of the line than a franchise quarterback. If Griffin passes the test, thereís no reason to pass on him.

For example, letís operate under the alternative method of team-building for a minute. Letís assume the Rams wonít budge on their request and insist that Atlantaís first-rounder is included in the deal. As a result, the Browns bow out of the sweepstakes and a team leapfrogs them to take Griffin. So, sitting at four, Cleveland takes Trent Richardson to give their eventual quarterback a beast workhorse. But, in the time it takes to find that quarterback, Richardson accumulates a ton of wear and tear on his tires because a bad offense must ride him to be mediocre. Suppose Cleveland takes Blackmon instead to give their eventual quarterback a top-flight, go-to receiver. Well, Blackmon isnít guaranteed to become that. These are unknown commodities weíre dealing with. What if he busts? Do the Browns have to wait around and draft another receiver with a top five pick before targeting a quarterback?

And I donít expect a rookie to step into the huddle with a firm command of the offense. Or expect him to elevate an offense to prolific heights with a string of superhuman efforts. I just expect him to set a direction on that side of the ball and progress from there. If the front officeís scouting is sharp, then surrounding him with talent he can elevate is the easier of the two steps.



Except it isnít even close to the Ďthis or thatí proposition itís being made out to be here.

If the Browns trade up to draft RGIII second overall, thereís nothing stopping them from improving the rest of the team elsewhere. In all likelihood, it would cost the Browns one pick. That still leaves the rest of the draft and free agent additions. If itís the second-rounder, that leaves them Atlantaís first-rounder to work with. If his stock doesnít soar, and it wouldnít surprise me if it does, Kendall Wright could still be available. Heís an explosive target thatís a perfect compliment to Little and it pairs Griffin with his college teammate. And the Browns have enough cash to be an active spender this off-season. It is more than plausible Cleveland could sign both a receiver and running back to ease the stress on their rookie quarterback. Even if itís just a reliable, zone-busting slot receiver and a check-down option out of the backfield.



And almost no team has the time to stack all of the cupboards with premium talent. A quarterback is the most important ingredient of offensive success. The fixings after that improve the flavor. The fact is that this teamís biggest need is at quarterback. Period. It has gone unaddressed for a decade and the team has been a perennial cellar-dweller as a result. Blackmon or Richardson isnít going to reverse that trend either.

Digressing from specifics to generalities, the new rookie cap structure makes it easier to move on from underwater quarterback situations. Their contract is guaranteed in full, but the deal is shorter and the number is lower. Therefore, bad decisions in the quarterback department arenít as crippling to a franchise. So it would stun me if Blaine Gabbert survives another season without the Jaguars picking a quarterback, former top ten pick or not. The NFL is too quarterback-driven to ignore the position and put your team behind the eight ball.
Great post. For the record I'm in favour of taking a QB first and foremost. I was begging for Glenn Dorsey, and am glad Thomas Dimitroff chose to go the other way with Matt Ryan. Let's not forget Roddy White had only had one good season up to that point, and there were serious questions about our O-Line and how Michael Turner would do as a full-time back.
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Old 01-21-2012, 03:17 AM    (permalink
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I also don't think the offense is as bad as fear the elf makes it out to be. You have two studs on the O-Line in Alex Mack and Joe Thomas. Greg Little is a high draft pick that has shown some potential. If you retain Peyton Hillis you have your workhorse back. Montario Hardesty hasn't been fantastic but he's still a serviceable back. Mohamed Massaquoi was a hasn't done well yet, but he's a 2nd round pick that has the ability to be a solid possession receiver. He has no QB to get him the ball. To really get the ball rolling you need that quarterback, there is no position even close to as valuable in the NFL.
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Old 01-21-2012, 03:26 AM    (permalink
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If a guy drafts a Gabbert type and he's a **** up, then that guy won't be around to draft the next QB.

You HAVE to take the chance. You HAVE to. Ideally, your team wouldn't be ******** enough in the first place to take someone like Gabbert, but it happens. When that guy proves to be a bust and the GM/coaching staff are rightfully shown the door, the next staff needs to get right on taking the next QB.
If you know someone like Gabbert has too high of a chance to bust... Then don't take them. I do not like Robert Griffin, because he plays in a wide open offense. He will not have half of his abilities when he has to throw the ball into a tight spot, and it's something he hardly had to do at Baylor. I would develop a team then draft a real elite QB.
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Old 01-21-2012, 07:03 AM    (permalink
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As a Bengals fan, I really hope the Browns don't get RG3. It's bad enough the Ravens are so good with a questionable quarterback, I don't want Cleveland to have a chance at a franchise QB :P

That being said, I think it would be rather foolish for the Browns to not take a chance on him. Sure he could be a bust, as could any other player in the draft. But if he's any better than McCoy then they're instantly competitive in any game they play with that defense.
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Old 01-21-2012, 10:25 AM    (permalink
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Everyone tends to agree that Griffin is good enough to take a chance on top 5. I'm a huge fan of the guys he keeps getting spuriously compared to-Vick-Newton-McNabb-but when I look at him I see more questions then anything else.

Pros -
Accuracy
Improved every year
Blazing straight line speed

Cons -
Awkward footwork
Inconsistent pocket awareness-not special at extending plays
Inconsistent velocity-probably byproduct of his footwork
Poor running style-not elusive and takes big hits
Inflated stats

He's obviously made strides this season but I guess I just can't get his play before this season, like last year's Texas Bowl out of my head.

Like Cudders said it's really about how his workouts and interviews go from here on out and once I see and hear about these perhaps I can shake my doubts. If he gets lights out reviews then I'd be more prepared to be on board but as of now I don't think it's worth moving up to get him. I just don't see such an enormous gap between him and the 3rd or 4th rated guys.
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Old 01-21-2012, 12:12 PM    (permalink
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According to ESPN's Adam Schefter, "a handful of NFL scouts" prefer Baylor QB Robert Griffin III to presumptive No. 1 overall pick Stanford QB Andrew Luck.
- rotoworld
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Old 01-21-2012, 12:13 PM    (permalink
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Idiots, all of them. I like Griffin but only if there's not a shot in hell of getting Luck.
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