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Old 01-19-2012, 07:58 AM    (permalink
Wodwo
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Originally Posted by RaiderNation View Post
DHB started to look very solid down the line for the Raiders, and I would take him over Crabtree anyday of the week.
Both players actually started to look very solid in the second half of the season. I'm happy for DHB because it can't be fun to be viewed as a serious reach. Crabtree wasn't 100% healthy from his foot (again) until midway through the season.

Just for fun, here's the last eight games of the 2011 season for each 2009 1st round WR that played all those games (No Britt or Maclin).



DHB

REC: 37 Yards: 541 AVG: 14.6 TD: 3

Crabtree

REC: 42 Yards: 560 AVG: 13.3 TD: 3

Nicks

REC: 38 Yards: 617 AVG: 16.2 TD: 4

Harvin

REC: 56 Yards: 633 AVG: 11.3 TD: 6



The first three had some problems with drops during the season. Crabtree had an absolutely awful game against the Saints in the divisional round. Nicks is the complete opposite, absolutely beasting it up in the playoffs. Crabtree will really need to step up his game against the Giants this weekend.

In any case, I say the jury is still out on DHB and Crabtree. There's no denying that they aren't the best WRs from that draft class, though.
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Old 01-19-2012, 08:22 AM    (permalink
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Crabs needs a full training camp. Due to injuries and his rookie hold out, I don't think he's had a full NFL training camp yet.

As for DHB, the drops kill me. I don't care how fast, big, awesome you are otherwise...none of it matters if you can't actually catch the damn ball. That's why guys like him and Ted Ginn and Braylon bother me so much. I HATE receivers who drop a lot of passes.

And Roddy White too. 4 in a playoff game? Are you kidding me Roddy?
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Old 01-19-2012, 08:48 AM    (permalink
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Crabs needs a full training camp. Due to injuries and his rookie hold out, I don't think he's had a full NFL training camp yet.

As for DHB, the drops kill me. I don't care how fast, big, awesome you are otherwise...none of it matters if you can't actually catch the damn ball. That's why guys like him and Ted Ginn and Braylon bother me so much. I HATE receivers who drop a lot of passes.

And Roddy White too. 4 in a playoff game? Are you kidding me Roddy?
Yeah, Crabtree hasn't had a single offseason working with the team. I don't know if that's good enough to excuse his drops, though. He had 7 this season on one less target than DHB, who dropped 6. At least Crabtree isn't trying to play Volley Ball anymore with the tipped interceptions he had last season.

Obviously I'm with you on hating it when WRs drop a high % of passes. The 49ers were just terrible this season. Even Frank Gore joined in with 6 drops... in his 32 whole targets. WTF? Gore has had more receptions every season since 2006 than he had targets this season and he drops 6? SMH.
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Old 01-19-2012, 08:50 AM    (permalink
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I recall reading that, when Larry Fitzgerald was informed that he only had one dropped pass this season in 153 target, he got upset because "that's one too many."

Yeah, here: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...hrown-his-way/

THAT is how I want my WR to respond.
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Old 01-19-2012, 09:02 AM    (permalink
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I recall reading that, when Larry Fitzgerald was informed that he only had one dropped pass this season in 153 target, he got upset because "that's one too many."

Yeah, here: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...hrown-his-way/

THAT is how I want my WR to respond.
Hell yes. Master your art, *************.

Fitzgerald has the best hands in the league. Not just because he can catch every good pass, but the combination of body control, ball tracking adjustments, freakish hand-eye coordination, and the uncanny ability to react to passes tipped by the DB. He is just absolutely amazing. He works his ass off to be that way, too. I love that guy, I don't care that he plays for a division rival, one of the best players in the NFL. Period.

Sorry for the tangent/rant, guys.
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Old 01-19-2012, 09:05 AM    (permalink
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It just wouldn't be a thread without the occasional tangent...

I honestly believe that if Fitzgerald had/has/gets consistently good QB play for his entire career and avoids major injuries, he could have threatened some of Rice's records.

Extremely hard worker with even better natural abilities. A few too many years with guys who aren't Kurt Warner probably means he'll never get into the record territory, but he should finish as a top 5 all time WR in just about every category.
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Old 01-19-2012, 09:56 AM    (permalink
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It just wouldn't be a thread without the occasional tangent...

I honestly believe that if Fitzgerald had/has/gets consistently good QB play for his entire career and avoids major injuries, he could have threatened some of Rice's records.

Extremely hard worker with even better natural abilities. A few too many years with guys who aren't Kurt Warner probably means he'll never get into the record territory, but he should finish as a top 5 all time WR in just about every category.
I completely agree and Jerry Rice is my favorite player of all time. Of course, this is a different era of football (especially in the passing game), but Fitzgerald just deserves recognition for being the amazing player that he is anyway. It's so rare to find an athlete in any sport that has that combination of raw talent and work ethic. Plus he seems like a really good kid.

I wish he'd opted to leave the Cardinals. Le sigh.
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Old 01-19-2012, 10:45 AM    (permalink
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Fitzgerald is no Calvin.
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Old 01-19-2012, 02:04 PM    (permalink
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Sanchez isn't as bad as the likes of Tyson Jackson cmon....I know he is a villain on the boards but lets see the guy with a capable OC(Hopefully Sparano is that...still reservations) and a guy who is at the very least ok at RT and who won't get Sanchez killed every few seconds.
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Old 01-19-2012, 02:27 PM    (permalink
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At least it's not like the next 5 guys were complete studs. But if you're going to draft a 3-4 end that high, the guy better be the next Richard Seymour. Or at least Aaron Smith.

Jackson isn't even in the ballpark with those guys.
Richard Seymour and Aaron Smith are the very best and second best 3-4 DEs of All-Time... "At least Aaron Smith"? That's nuts, dude. You don't try to get in the ballpark of Smith & Seymour. You try to get a good player and maybe they become great.

You pretty much have to draft 3-4 ends that high if you want to get a good one. They go quick because there are lots of 3-4 teams and 4-3 teams still want those guys, too.

Tyson Jackson was a pretty good starter this year. 3-4 ends don't put up stats unless they're Seymour or one of the White Smiths. I think he struggled with the position change (4-3 DE to 3-4 DE, not 4-3 DT to 3-4 DE which is easier) and the change he had to make to his body to get to the size they need him at there. He lost a lot of athleticism, but is getting it back.

As for the rest of that list? Pretty sure the Lions are happy with Stafford, Sanchez has been to 2 AFC Championship games, Eugene Monroe was never looked at as a "stud", but a steady player who would get the job done at LT...he is that, Jason Smith was always overrated, Andre Smith was a terrible pick but is turning out solid lately, and DHB is doing really well now.

I say that was a great draft, even at the top. I had Jason Smith below Oher and Monroe, but above Andre Smith in that OT class. It's ridiculous how overanalyzed Michael Oher was...to the point he fell out of the Top 20...
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Old 01-19-2012, 02:36 PM    (permalink
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Andre Smith had a good year. Especially when in the first 4 games he had Clint Boling at RG (no where near ready) and Mike McGlynn late in the year.
If he stays healthy, I still think he can be a top RT.
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Old 01-19-2012, 03:37 PM    (permalink
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Sanchez isn't as bad as the likes of Tyson Jackson cmon....I know he is a villain on the boards but lets see the guy with a capable OC(Hopefully Sparano is that...still reservations) and a guy who is at the very least ok at RT and who won't get Sanchez killed every few seconds.
You're required to have more faith as a fan. I don't share your optimism. Playcalling never helped him, but you can separate Sanchez' performance out a little bit and he doesn't look like an NFL franchise QB.

We'll see.

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Richard Seymour and Aaron Smith are the very best and second best 3-4 DEs of All-Time... "At least Aaron Smith"? That's nuts, dude. You don't try to get in the ballpark of Smith & Seymour. You try to get a good player and maybe they become great.

You pretty much have to draft 3-4 ends that high if you want to get a good one. They go quick because there are lots of 3-4 teams and 4-3 teams still want those guys, too.

Tyson Jackson was a pretty good starter this year. 3-4 ends don't put up stats unless they're Seymour or one of the White Smiths. I think he struggled with the position change (4-3 DE to 3-4 DE, not 4-3 DT to 3-4 DE which is easier) and the change he had to make to his body to get to the size they need him at there. He lost a lot of athleticism, but is getting it back.

As for the rest of that list? Pretty sure the Lions are happy with Stafford, Sanchez has been to 2 AFC Championship games, Eugene Monroe was never looked at as a "stud", but a steady player who would get the job done at LT...he is that, Jason Smith was always overrated, Andre Smith was a terrible pick but is turning out solid lately, and DHB is doing really well now.

I say that was a great draft, even at the top. I had Jason Smith below Oher and Monroe, but above Andre Smith in that OT class. It's ridiculous how overanalyzed Michael Oher was...to the point he fell out of the Top 20...
You are a non-Chiefs fan Chiefs homer. Tyson Jackson was not work the #3 pick in the draft. Actual Chiefs fans will tell you this.

Just as they tell you that Matt Cassel is not an NFL franchise QB or someone who ever could be.
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Old 01-19-2012, 03:43 PM    (permalink
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It was considered a weak draft for elite players at the time so it should come as no surprise that few have reached star status. Teams couldn't trade down because NFL GM's realized that later in round 1, they would find talent just as good if not better than what they could get in the 1st 10 picks.
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Old 01-19-2012, 03:45 PM    (permalink
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The Browns traded down a couple of times...
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Old 01-19-2012, 03:54 PM    (permalink
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The Browns traded down a couple of times...
That is because they had a team that wanted a QB badly and Sanchez was there but what good has it done the Browns who also needed a QB.
You must really like 4-12 records.
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Old 01-19-2012, 04:05 PM    (permalink
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That is because they had a team that wanted a QB badly and Sanchez was there but what good has it done the Browns who also needed a QB.
You must really like 4-12 records.
What good has it done? Well for one, we don't have Mark Sanchez on our team!

Also, Alex Mack is pretty decent. :)
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Old 01-19-2012, 04:06 PM    (permalink
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Richard Seymour and Aaron Smith are the very best and second best 3-4 DEs of All-Time... "At least Aaron Smith"? That's nuts, dude. You don't try to get in the ballpark of Smith & Seymour. You try to get a good player and maybe they become great.

You pretty much have to draft 3-4 ends that high if you want to get a good one. They go quick because there are lots of 3-4 teams and 4-3 teams still want those guys, too.

Tyson Jackson was a pretty good starter this year. 3-4 ends don't put up stats unless they're Seymour or one of the White Smiths. I think he struggled with the position change (4-3 DE to 3-4 DE, not 4-3 DT to 3-4 DE which is easier) and the change he had to make to his body to get to the size they need him at there. He lost a lot of athleticism, but is getting it back.

As for the rest of that list? Pretty sure the Lions are happy with Stafford, Sanchez has been to 2 AFC Championship games, Eugene Monroe was never looked at as a "stud", but a steady player who would get the job done at LT...he is that, Jason Smith was always overrated, Andre Smith was a terrible pick but is turning out solid lately, and DHB is doing really well now.

I say that was a great draft, even at the top. I had Jason Smith below Oher and Monroe, but above Andre Smith in that OT class. It's ridiculous how overanalyzed Michael Oher was...to the point he fell out of the Top 20...
I still think Jason Smith had the second most raw talent out of that top 4 after Andre Smith. He just also needed the most work, but I still think he can and Saffold can get back to the level of play they were at last year and build on it.
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 01-19-2012, 04:54 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by BeerBaron View Post

And Roddy White too. 4 in a playoff game? Are you kidding me Roddy?
Along with leading the NFL this year. Quite the career arch for Roddy.

05-06: Painfully terrible
07: Break out, good WR.
08-09: Ok, he's really good. Legit top 10
10: Top 3 WR?
11: What the ****?



Still a good WR, but it's amazing how much he regressed.
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Old 01-19-2012, 04:57 PM    (permalink
keylime_5
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What good has it done? Well for one, we don't have Mark Sanchez on our team!

Also, Alex Mack is pretty decent. :)
yeah. At least we got a good center out of it. Otherwise we'd have no QB and no center. We could've had some really great other players after that trade to if Mangini weren't drafting: Jeremy Maclin, Percy Harvin, Clay Matthews, even Josh Freeman. Not to mention LeSean McCoy taken a pick after David Veikune in round two.
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Old 01-19-2012, 05:51 PM    (permalink
WCH
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Originally Posted by ATLDirtyBirds View Post
Along with leading the NFL this year. Quite the career arch for Roddy.

05-06: Painfully terrible
07: Break out, good WR.
08-09: Ok, he's really good. Legit top 10
10: Top 3 WR?
11: What the ****?



Still a good WR, but it's amazing how much he regressed.
Possibly an emerging vision problem?
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Old 01-19-2012, 06:16 PM    (permalink
BlindSite
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Ugh what an ugly draft in hindsight.

Captain Munnderlyn, Sherrod Martin and Robinson are the only highlights god was Everette brown a painful ******* pick.
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Old 01-19-2012, 07:23 PM    (permalink
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It was considered a weak draft for elite players at the time so it should come as no surprise that few have reached star status. Teams couldn't trade down because NFL GM's realized that later in round 1, they would find talent just as good if not better than what they could get in the 1st 10 picks.
I seriously hate this mentality of the draft. If you have the first overall pick, you can literally take whoever you want. You could grab the 3rd ranked Punter if you think he'll give your organization the most wins.
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Old 01-19-2012, 08:00 PM    (permalink
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Tyson Jackson was a pretty good starter this year. 3-4 ends don't put up stats unless they're Seymour or one of the White Smiths. I think he struggled with the position change (4-3 DE to 3-4 DE, not 4-3 DT to 3-4 DE which is easier) and the change he had to make to his body to get to the size they need him at there. He lost a lot of athleticism, but is getting it back.
He was solid at times but "pretty good" is a stretch. It's hard to watch him play knowing he is making 70 million...

I'm so glad those days of crazy rookie deals are over.
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Old 01-19-2012, 08:47 PM    (permalink
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What good has it done? Well for one, we don't have Mark Sanchez on our team!

Also, Alex Mack is pretty decent. :)
You guys got Brent Ratliff....oh and Abram Elam....and Kenyon Coleman. Not bad of a heist value wise.
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Old 01-20-2012, 03:02 PM    (permalink
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Called the Andre Smith and DHB busts, but was wrongly really behind Curry, but it was too high to take a line backer that is not a pass rusher
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