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Old 01-23-2012, 06:14 PM    (permalink
Brown Leader
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Default Mayock's 2012 Rankings

4/2

Quarterback

1. Andrew Luck, Stanford
2. Robert Griffin III, Baylor
3. Ryan Tannehill, Texas A&M
4. Brandon Weeden, Oklahoma State
5. Kirk Cousins, Michigan State

Running Back

1. Trent Richardson, Alabama
2. Doug Martin, Boise State
3. David Wilson, Virginia Tech
4. Lamar Miller, Miami (Fla.)
5. LaMichael James, Oregon

Wide Receiver

1. Justin Blackmon, Oklahoma State
2. Michael Floyd, Notre Dame
3. Kendall Wright, Baylor
4. Stephen Hill, Georgia Tech
5. Alshon Jeffery, South Carolina

Tight End

1. Coby Fleener, Stanford
2. Dwayne Allen, Clemson
3. Orson Charles, Georgia
4. Ladarius Green, Louisiana-Lafayette
5. James Hanna, Oklahoma

Offensive Tackle

1. Matt Kalil, USC
2. Riley Reiff, Iowa
3. Mike Adams, Ohio State
4. Jonathan Martin, Stanford
5. Cordy Glenn, Georgia

Rise: Adams (4)
Fall: Martin (3)

Guard

1. David DeCastro, Stanford
2. Kevin Zeitler, Wisconsin
3. Amini Silatolu, Midwestern State
4. Kelechi Osemele, Iowa State
5. Brandon Brooks, Miami (Ohio)

Center


1. Peter Konz, Wisconsin
2. Philip Blake, Baylor
3. Ben Jones, Georgia
4. David Molk, Michigan
5. Michael Brewster, Ohio State

Defensive End

1. Quinton Coples, North Carolina
2. Courtney Upshaw, Alabama
3. Nick Perry, USC
4. Chandler Jones, Syracuse
5. Vinny Curry, Marshall

New Entry: Jones
Out: Jared Crick, Nebraska (5)
Fall: Curry (4)

Defensive Tackle

1. Fletcher Cox, Mississippi State
2. Jerel Worthy, Michigan State
3. Michael Brockers, LSU
4. Dontari Poe, Memphis
T-5. Kendall Reyes, Connecticut
T-5. Devon Still, Penn St.

Rise: Cox (2), Worthy (4)
Fall: Poe (1)

Outside Linebacker

1. Melvin Ingram, South Carolina
2. Shea McClellin, Boise State
3. Whitney Mercilus, Illinois
4. Andre Branch, Clemson
5. Ronnell Lewis, Oklahoma

Rise: McClellin (5)
Fall: Mercilus (2), Branch (3), Lewis (4)

Inside Linebacker

1. Luke Kuechly, Boston College
2. Dont'a Hightower, Alabama
3. Mychal Kendricks, California
4. Keenan Robinson, Texas
5. Sean Spence, Miami

Cornerback

1. Morris Claiborne, LSU
2. Stephon Gilmore, South Carolina
3. Dre Kirkpatrick, Alabama
4. Janoris Jenkins, North Alabama
5. Josh Robinson, Central Florida

Safety

1. Mark Barron, Alabama
2. Harrison Smith, Notre Dame
3. Brandon Taylor, LSU
4. DeQuan Menzie, Alabama
5. Phillip Thomas, Syracuse
______________________________________

3/5

Quarterback

1. Andrew Luck, Stanford
2. Robert Griffin III, Baylor
3. Ryan Tannehill, Texas A&M
4. Brandon Weeden, Oklahoma State
5. Kirk Cousins, Michigan State

Running Back

1. Trent Richardson, Alabama
2. Doug Martin, Boise State
3. David Wilson, Virginia Tech
4. Lamar Miller, Miami (Fla.)
5. LaMichael James, Oregon

Rise: Martin
Fall: Miller, Wilson

Wide Receiver

1. Justin Blackmon, Oklahoma State
3. Michael Floyd, Notre Dame
2. Kendall Wright, Baylor
4. Stephen Hill, Georgia Tech
5. Alshon Jeffery, South Carolina

Rise: Floyd
Fall: Wright
New entry: Hill
Out: LSU's Rueben Randle

Tight End

1. Orson Charles, Georgia
2. Coby Fleener, Stanford
3. Dwayne Allen, Clemson
4. Deangelo Peterson, LSU
5. Ladarius Green, Louisiana-Lafayette


Offensive Tackle

1. Matt Kalil, USC
2. Riley Reiff, Iowa
3. Jonathan Martin, Stanford
4. Mike Adams, Ohio State
5. Cordy Glenn, Georgia

Guard

1. David DeCastro, Stanford
2. Kevin Zeitler, Wisconsin
3. Amini Silatolu, Midwestern State
4. Kelechi Osemele, Iowa State
5. Brandon Brooks, Miami (Ohio)

Center

1. Peter Konz, Wisconsin
2. Philip Blake, Baylor
3. Ben Jones, Georgia
4. David Molk, Michigan
5. Michael Brewster, Ohio State

Defensive End

1. Quinton Coples, North Carolina
2. Courtney Upshaw, Alabama
3. Nick Perry, USC
4. Vinny Curry, Marshall
5. Jared Crick, Nebraska

Rise: Coples, Perry, Curry, Crick
New entry: Crick, Upshaw (formerly listed as linebacker)
Out: Clemson's Andre Branch, Illinois' Whitney Mercilus (now listed as outside linebacker), South Carolina's Melvin Ingram (now listed as outside linebacker)

Defensive Tackle

1. Dontari Poe, Memphis
2. Fletcher Cox, Mississippi State
3. Michael Brockers, LSU
4. Jerel Worthy, Michigan State
5. Kendall Reyes, Connecticut

Rise: Poe, Cox
Fall: Brockers, Worthy
Out: Penn State's Devon Still, Clemson's Brandon Thompson

Outside Linebacker

1. Melvin Ingram, South Carolina
2. Whitney Mercilus, Illinois
3. Andre Branch, Clemson
4. Ronnell Lewis, Oklahoma
5. Shea McClellin, Boise State

Out: Alabama's Courtney Upshaw (now listed at defensive end)

Inside Linebacker

1. Luke Kuechly, Boston College
2. Dont'a Hightower, Alabama
3. Mychal Kendricks, California
4. Keenan Robinson, Texas
5. Sean Spence, Miami

Cornerback

1. Morris Claiborne, LSU
2. Dre Kirkpatrick, Alabama
3. Janoris Jenkins, North Alabama
4. Josh Robinson, Central Florida
5. Stephon Gilmore, South Carolina

New entry: Robinson, Gilore
Out: Montana's Trumaine Johnson, Iowa State's Leonard Johnson

Safety

1. Mark Barron, Alabama
2. Harrison Smith, Notre Dame
3. Brandon Taylor, LSU
4. DeQuan Menzie, Alabama
5. Phillip Thomas, Syracuse

New entry: Menzie, Taylor
Out: Boise State's George Iloka, Oklahoma State's Markelle Martin
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Last edited by Brown Leader : 04-02-2012 at 06:32 PM.
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Old 01-23-2012, 06:37 PM    (permalink
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Riley Reiff #1 tackle, Que?

Interesting he has Hightower that high along with Chris Givens at WR.
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Old 01-23-2012, 06:43 PM    (permalink
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Riley Reiff #1 tackle, Que?
Reiff's a really good LT prospect, and probably underrated by most amateur internet draftniks, but it's hard to justify putting him ahead of Kalil except to be contrarian.

I give Reiff an edge as an athlete, and in terms of pad level and consistency, but Kalil pushes or wins most of the other categories.
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Old 01-23-2012, 06:46 PM    (permalink
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There's no way Dennard is a better pro prospect than Dre.
Mayock does this for a living, but that doesn't mean he's that good at it.
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Old 01-23-2012, 06:48 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
There's no way Dennard is a better pro prospect than Dre.
Mayock does this for a living, but that doesn't mean he's that good at it.
The one thing the man is good at is scouting secondary players. I'm not crazy about Kirkpatrick but that does seem like a bit of a stretch.
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Old 01-23-2012, 06:48 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
There's no way Dennard is a better pro prospect than Dre.
Mayock does this for a living, but that doesn't mean he's that good at it.
If there is one position I've learned not to question with Mayock, it's DBs. When he says something that's not "consensus" with defensive backs, you'd better ******* pay attention.

I've got a weird feeling that Mayock saw Kirkpatrick get his top blown off by Andre Debose, and that really stuck with him. Just a gut feeling.
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Old 01-23-2012, 06:52 PM    (permalink
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Is anyone that impressed with Dennard???
I thought Amukamara was better, and even he doesn't appear that special a cover guy in the pros.

(Full disclosure; for some reason I get Mayock and McShay confused without a pic. I still think he's overrating Dennard and underrating Kirpatrick.)
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Old 01-23-2012, 06:54 PM    (permalink
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If there is one position I've learned not to question with Mayock, it's DBs. When he says something that's not "consensus" with defensive backs, you'd better ******* pay attention.

I've got a weird feeling that Mayock saw Kirkpatrick get his top blown off by Andre Debose, and that really stuck with him. Just a gut feeling.
It makes sense though. Kirkpatrick has never really played as well as expectations coming out of high school would lead some people to believe. I said two months ago he wouldn't go Top 10, I'll stick to it now. He is going to have some nice combine numbers I'd imagine though.

Reiff over Kalil is really interesting. I don't agree with it, but I guess I could see why someone might have that opinion. I've got Kalil as an elite talent though.

I trust Mayock more then any other media draftnik, for the record. He makes ESPN his *****.
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Old 01-23-2012, 06:58 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, I'm waiting for his reasoning on Kalil, too.

I've said before that Kalil has a tendency to play lazy and disinterested. He'll make his initial pop, then will turn and watch the play like a spectator. He's not a finisher and needs an NFL OL coach to kick him in the ass. Also has a tendency to get beat inside when he's not focusing.

Still my #1 tackle, though. Dude's got all-world ability, and his quickset is ridiculously good. Just needs to play with better effort snap to snap.
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Old 01-23-2012, 06:59 PM    (permalink
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I trust Mayock more then any other media draftnik, for the record.
I do too, but you have to be aware that he does have a major blind spot. There's almost nobody in the media who is less of a "numbers guy" than Mayock. At times he seems offended that people put stock into that which you measure with the combine.

Specifically, if you're short and slow, but you look good on tape then Mayock is going to like you more than other people will.
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Old 01-23-2012, 07:01 PM    (permalink
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I would also say that OL/DL evaluation is his biggest weakness as an evaluator.

DBs/WRs - money. Closer you get to the ball, the worse he is (QB being the exception). Makes sense, dude was a safety.
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Old 01-23-2012, 07:05 PM    (permalink
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I do too, but you have to be aware that he does have a major blind spot. There's almost nobody in the media who is less of a "numbers guy" than Mayock. At times he seems offended that people put stock into that which you measure with the combine.

Specifically, if you're short and slow, but you look good on tape then Mayock is going to like you more than other people will.
See: Ahmad Black
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Old 01-23-2012, 07:12 PM    (permalink
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After watching Dennard today look like a high schooler, if he's better than Kirkpatrick than Kirkpatrick is on of the most overrated players in the draft. He can't be any less fluid than Dennard, and he's 4 inches taller. Mayock usually is money with DB's, but I don't get that one.
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Old 01-23-2012, 07:16 PM    (permalink
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Don't like David Wilson over Lamar Miller at all.

And Chandler Jones has very little production. Anyone?
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Old 01-23-2012, 07:25 PM    (permalink
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I love Mike Mayock. Best there is out there as a scout. Keep in mind he's been multiple GM jobs and turned them down (rumoured), this isn't McShay or Kiper we're talking about here.
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Old 01-23-2012, 07:25 PM    (permalink
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Mayock would be the first to tell you that he hasn't done much if any film work on the junior class. This list will change significantly as the process goes on but it is probably a good read on the senior class. As for Kilpatrick, a failed drug test may well be the reason he is so far down the list.
Honestly, I doubt the NFL scouts and GM's have done a whole lot of film work on the junior class. They all wait till they declare before spending a huge amount of time on juniors.
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Old 01-23-2012, 07:28 PM    (permalink
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After watching Dennard today look like a high schooler, if he's better than Kirkpatrick than Kirkpatrick is on of the most overrated players in the draft. He can't be any less fluid than Dennard, and he's 4 inches taller. Mayock usually is money with DB's, but I don't get that one.
I wouldn't put too much into a drill designed for the offense this early in the week. These players are rusty but will pick up their game as the week progresses.
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Old 01-23-2012, 07:37 PM    (permalink
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Remember, Mayock's initial rankings always have underclassmen ranked lower than most because he really focuses on seniors up until guys start declaring.
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Old 01-23-2012, 07:41 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpngc View Post
Don't like David Wilson over Lamar Miller at all.

And Chandler Jones has very little production. Anyone?
I heard a rumor that Lamar Miller needs shoulder surgery but is holding off until after the draft and that's scaring some teams off.

Chandler Jones:

Really raw but REALLY athletic.
Should test extremely well (like JPP well).
Great height and length.
Can probably play DE in a 4-3 or OLB in a 34
Extremely fast off the ball.
Showed flashes of dominance at times, had big games against WV and Pitt.
Brother, Arthur, plays for the Ravens, other brother (can't remember his name...) is a UFC fighter.

Gets by on athleticism, lacks a pass rushing repertoire
Lack of sack production (although he's got a good number of TFL)
Missed five games this year with a knee injury
Can be run at, not overly physical

Overall he's your standard raw, athletic DE/OLB tweener. 2nd/3rd round grade but with this weak DE/OLB class, he has as much potential/upside as anyone.
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Old 01-23-2012, 07:52 PM    (permalink
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On Reiff over Kalil, it's not the first I've heard it. Greg Gabriel had a really good write up comparing the two:

Quote:
Riley Reiff

Reiff is a fourth-year junior and a three-year starter on the Iowa line. He is from Parkston, South Dakota, and played tight end and defensive end in high school. Coming out of high school both Rivals and Scout had him rated as a 3-star defensive end and was mainly a regional recruit having been offered by Iowa, Minnesota and Nebraska. He redshirted his freshman year as an offensive lineman and then cracked the starting lineup in 2009 as a redshirt freshman. That year he had starts at both left and right tackle as well as left guard. In 2010 and 2011 he played only left tackle. Last year when I was watching tape on Ricky Stanzi, Reiff jumped out at me so I was anxious to see how he played this year.

Reiff plays from both from a 2-point and 3-point stance and shows excellent snap reaction and initial quickness. Though he is a tall guy at about 6-6 and 305, he has an even cut body with good arm length and is a natural knee bender. He is very athletic, shows some speed and can play in space. He plays with good strength and power. In the run game he comes off the ball low and is explosive on contact to generate movement. He keeps his feet moving and he is a consistent finisher. He takes good angles to the second level and on the few plays that he pulls he shows that he can adjust on the move to make a productive block. In pass protection, he can set quickly and is very patient. He does an excellent job keeping his hands inside and shows a strong punch and can quickly recoil. He has excellent lateral agility and recovery allowing him to mirror speedy defensive ends and linebackers. You seldom see him get beat by a counter move. With his natural bend he shows a consistent anchor and doesnít give ground to bull rushers. He has excellent awareness and easily picks up stunts and blitzes. Overall, Reiff has the talent to be a rookie starter in the league. He has the athletic traits to play left tackle and be a very good one. Assuming he has no medical issues he will be a high first-round pick.

Matt Kalil

Kalil has a little different background then Reiff. He played his high school football in the strong leagues of Southern California. His dad was a draft choice of the Buffalo Bills and his older brother Ryan is a Pro Bowl center for Carolina. While Reiff was a 3-star player, Kalil was a 5-star athlete and recruited by all the top programs in the country. Like Reiff, he was redshirted in 2008. He played as a backup in 2009 and has been a starter at left tackle the last two seasons.

Physically, Kalil is a high-cut player with long arms. While he shows he can bend he has a tendency to play tall. His upper body strength is excellent but he still needs to develop his lower strength. Comparing him as an athlete to his former USC teammate from a year ago Tyron Smith, it isnít close. Smith is a far superior athlete and may be the most athletic tackle in the NFL. While Smith is a better athlete, Kalil is more physical and plays with a nasty disposition.

The first game I watched on Kalil was against Notre Dame and in the first half he struggled some versus Notre Dame defensive end Kapron Lewis-Moore. In the run game, Kalilís legs buckled a few times and he fell off the block and Lewis-Moore was able to beat him with both a counter move and an outside move to get pressure on the quarterback. In the other games viewed Kalil was much better (Stanford, Washington and Cal)
His overall play in the run game is solid. While he has a tendency to get tall, he still gets movement because of his upper strength and nasty attitude. When he can put his opponent on his back he will do it. He can be a bit inconsistent getting to the second level because he doesnít consistently break down and adjust to a quick move. I saw him whiff a few times in space. In pass protection he has a very strong punch that he uses to jolt his opponent. Except for the Notre Dame game, I didnít see him get beat by counter moves and his overall mirror skills were good. Because he gets tall he sometimes has to reset his feet so he wonít give ground versus a bull rush but still his anchor ability is good. Like Reiff he is a very alert and aware player. He has an added benefit of being an excellent Field Goal/Pat blocker. He has had a number of blocked kicks in his career.

Overall, Kalil will be a high pick. Because he has a tendency to play tall, I would want to work him out to see just how good his lower body flexibility is. Though there are lesser athletes playing left tackle in the NFL, his best position may be on the right side where he could become a dominant player. If I had to choose today without the knowledge of the combine, medical exams and a workout I would choose Reiff over Kalil. Reiff may not be as nasty but he is a better athlete with a stronger and more consistent overall game. Both will become excellent NFL players and start early in their careers.
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Originally Posted by Iamcanadian View Post
Mayock would be the first to tell you that he hasn't done much if any film work on the junior class. This list will change significantly as the process goes on but it is probably a good read on the senior class. As for Kilpatrick, a failed drug test may well be the reason he is so far down the list.
Honestly, I doubt the NFL scouts and GM's have done a whole lot of film work on the junior class. They all wait till they declare before spending a huge amount of time on juniors.
Past QBs, I don't think he factors in the off field stuff. He just goes with what he sees on tape with the skill guys.
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Old 01-23-2012, 07:59 PM    (permalink
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Past QBs, I don't think he factors in the off field stuff. He just goes with what he sees on tape with the skill guys.
You may be right, we'll get a better idea by the time the Combine rolls around.
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Old 01-23-2012, 08:05 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Grizzlegom View Post
I heard a rumor that Lamar Miller needs shoulder surgery but is holding off until after the draft and that's scaring some teams off.

Chandler Jones:

Really raw but REALLY athletic.
Should test extremely well (like JPP well).
Great height and length.
Can probably play DE in a 4-3 or OLB in a 34
Extremely fast off the ball.
Showed flashes of dominance at times, had big games against WV and Pitt.
Brother, Arthur, plays for the Ravens, other brother (can't remember his name...) is a UFC fighter.

Gets by on athleticism, lacks a pass rushing repertoire
Lack of sack production (although he's got a good number of TFL)
Missed five games this year with a knee injury
Can be run at, not overly physical

Overall he's your standard raw, athletic DE/OLB tweener. 2nd/3rd round grade but with this weak DE/OLB class, he has as much potential/upside as anyone.
I agree with this assessment of C. Jones but many people forget the difference between College Football and Pro Football...in college the coaches often try to put a square peg into a round whole when it comes to their schemes...Syracuse just didn't have the talent to free up Jones to make the big play sacks like say LSU or Alabama's Defenses. There are very few NFL players that ARE the total package...many are effective because of the scheme they're in. I think this is the case with Jones...if he lands on a team that is scheme friendly look for him to develop into a big time player.
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Old 01-23-2012, 08:24 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grizzlegom View Post
I heard a rumor that Lamar Miller needs shoulder surgery but is holding off until after the draft and that's scaring some teams off.

Chandler Jones:

Really raw but REALLY athletic.
Should test extremely well (like JPP well).
Great height and length.
Can probably play DE in a 4-3 or OLB in a 34
Extremely fast off the ball.
Showed flashes of dominance at times, had big games against WV and Pitt.
Brother, Arthur, plays for the Ravens, other brother (can't remember his name...) is a UFC fighter.

Gets by on athleticism, lacks a pass rushing repertoire
Lack of sack production (although he's got a good number of TFL)
Missed five games this year with a knee injury
Can be run at, not overly physical

Overall he's your standard raw, athletic DE/OLB tweener. 2nd/3rd round grade but with this weak DE/OLB class, he has as much potential/upside as anyone.
Uhhh Jon Jones current LHW champ and maybe the best fighter on their roster outside of St. Pierre & Silva......jeeze that family has some crazy talents.
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Old 01-23-2012, 08:42 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Brown Leader View Post
I'm surprised no one's posted Mayock's initial rankings. Some interesting things. It's just Mayock's take but I must say I feel a little vindicated concerning Kirkpatrick, who I thought was getting pretty overrated with all the top ten projections.

RB
1. Trent Richardson
2. David Wilson
3. Lamar Miller
4. Doug Martin
5. LaMichael James
CB
1. Mo Claiborne
2. Janoris Jenkins
3. Alfonzo Dennard
4. Leonard Johnson
5. Dre Kirkpatrick
On what grounds Wilson is rated higher then Miller?

Straight up disrespect for Kirkpatrick. If that was the case he be rated 5th, Mayock might as well slid him over to the Safety rankings as #2.
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Old 01-23-2012, 08:51 PM    (permalink
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I know some people will just say that I'm an OSU homer but I have Mike Adams ranked higher than Martin, and he is certainly better than Sanders and Brown IMO.

Also Hightower over Taze is a joke and no mention of Cole whom I would also put over Hightower

I would also put Poe a bit higher (IMO one of the best potential players at the position in the draft) and I don't know if LaMichael James should be in anyones top 5 RBs, I'm still not 100% sure of his ability to hold up in the NFL
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