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Old 02-06-2012, 05:07 PM    (permalink
tjsunstein
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1. Rodgers
2. Brees
3. Brady
4. Eli
5. Big Ben
6. Cutler
7. Stafford
8. Rivers
9. Ryan
10. Romo

Not including Peyton.

Newton and Schaub round out the Top 12.
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Old 02-06-2012, 05:14 PM    (permalink
Mufasa
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Originally Posted by Bulldogs View Post
Love Stafford, but I'm not ready to name him a top 5 QB.
I was kind of torn on Manning, but I'd take him over the others no question. He just had his first full NFL season and he put up 5000 yards and 41 TDs. Of the current QBs, only Rodgers, Brees, and Brady have ever had a better season than that. The kid is good, by the end of next season he'll be a lock in everyone's top 5.

And just as a side note, I bet if we did this after the end of the regular season most people(myself included) would have had Eli at around 8.
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Old 02-06-2012, 05:23 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Mufasa View Post
I was kind of torn on Manning, but I'd take him over the others no question. He just had his first full NFL season and he put up 5000 yards and 41 TDs. Of the current QBs, only Rodgers, Brees, and Brady have ever had a better season than that. The kid is good, by the end of next season he'll be a lock in everyone's top 5.

And just as a side note, I bet if we did this after the end of the regular season most people(myself included) would have had Eli at around 8.
I think staying healthy is an important aspect of these rankings, I mean that and inconsistent are what drop Vick out of the top 10. Additionally Stafford's own inconsistencies were worrisome since Stafford's one of those kid's who's absolutely brutal when he's off. He's so young that all of those issues should be set at ease in time, but for now they still bother me when ranking him that highly.

And I would've vehemently disagreed with anyone who had Eli outside of their top 6 after the regular season as he carried this giants team to the playoffs while playing absolutely phenomenal football and being once again the clutchest QB in the NFL.
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 02-06-2012, 05:27 PM    (permalink
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I hard a hard with which order for Stafford, Manning and Roethlisberger. They should be 4, 5, 6, but who's where is more open.
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Old 02-06-2012, 05:29 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Mufasa View Post
I hard a hard with which order for Stafford, Manning and Roethlisberger. They should be 4, 5, 6, but who's where is more open.
I have Cutler in that mix, but any combination of the 4 starting with Eli I'm comfortable with.
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Old 02-06-2012, 05:32 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by tjsunstein View Post
1. Rodgers
2. Brees
3. Brady
4. Eli
5. Big Ben
6. Cutler
7. Stafford
8. Rivers
9. Ryan
10. Romo

Not including Peyton.

Newton and Schaub round out the Top 12.
I like this list. The only change I'd make is I'd flip Brees and Brady. Actually I'd put Brady #1, and Rodgers 2 and Brees 3.

I gotta give Brady that 1 spot still. The guy went to 5 super bowls. That's ridiculous. He had no business playing in this last one too. He carried this year's Patriots.
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Old 02-06-2012, 05:34 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
I like this list. The only change I'd make is I'd flip Brees and Brady. Actually I'd put Brady #1, and Rodgers 2 and Brees 3.

I gotta give Brady that 1 spot still. The guy went to 5 super bowls. That's ridiculous. He had no business playing in this last one too. He carried this year's Patriots.
I think somebody already mentioned it, but Brady this year was pretty much Peyton Manning. No semblance of a defense for the majority of the year, and carried an otherwise mediocre team. It's funny how Brady's role changed.
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Old 02-06-2012, 05:36 PM    (permalink
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I think somebody already mentioned it, but Brady this year was pretty much Peyton Manning. No semblance of a defense for the majority of the year, and carried an otherwise mediocre team. It's funny how Brady's role changed.
Yeah, the Patriots have become the Colts in many ways. Bellichick needs to build around defense again. I feel that if he goes back to the studly defense with Brady making chicken salad out of chicken **** approach, he might win another SB.

If he did that from the get go, he'd probably already have his 4th SB by now.
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Old 02-06-2012, 05:43 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, the Patriots have become the Colts in many ways. Bellichick needs to build around defense again. I feel that if he goes back to the studly defense with Brady making chicken salad out of chicken **** approach, he might win another SB.

If he did that from the get go, he'd probably already have his 4th SB by now.
Hard to do when your QB takes up so much cap space. Believe me, I know.
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Old 02-06-2012, 05:46 PM    (permalink
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Hard to do when your QB takes up so much cap space. Believe me, I know.
Really, the place where they ****** up was with not wanting to pay Seymour.

I don't think they should pay Welker what he'll command, either, but that could just be me.
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Old 02-06-2012, 05:49 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by DraftSavant View Post
Not ranking between tiers - really, really subjective and highly variable at that point.

TIER ONE - ELITE/TRANSCENDENT LEVEL
Drew Brees - The best pairing of coach, player, and system in the league.
Aaron Rogers - No limitations. A rhythm and timing passer with a power arm (incredibly rare).
Tom Brady - "Clutch" play has been forgotten; he's essentially become Peyton Manning - an transcendant player carrying a pretty mediocre team.
Eli Manning - Complete command of his offense, most cold-blooded player in the league. Amnesia from snap to snap (in a good way).
Ben Roethlisberger - Best pure physical talent of this group. All he does is make plays, but he needs to learn protections better.

TIER TWO - FOUNDATION PLAYER
Jay Cutler - Carries his team. Worst situation of any top QB the last few years in terms of scheme, pass-catching weapons.
Matt Stafford - QUIETEST 40 TOUCHDOWN SEASON ******* EVER.
Cam Newton - Kill me if you want - he's going to change the way we judge QBs.

TIER 3 - QUALITY STARTER/PRO BOWLER
Philip Rivers - Overrated because of fantasy football. Mediocre postseason player.
Mike Vick - Biggest "week-to-week" player in the league.
Matt Ryan - Can he be the foundation of an offense? Still a major question. Playoff performances have been abysmal.
Joe Flacco - Underrated IMO. Depending on what BAL does in the offseason, my early money is on him to jump a tier next year. Constantly trying to make throws into tiny windows because of lack of separation at WR.
Matt Schaub - Epitomizes this tier, IMO. Still waiting for a signature win.
Tony Romo - Similar to Vick. Week-to-week player. Frustratingly inconsistent.

TIER 4 - BASELINE STARTER
Alex Smith
Ryan Fitzpatrick
Andy Dalton
Kyle Orton
Sam Bradford (maybe?! I go back and forth with him)

Obviously, there's room for guys to go up or down a tier (like every single year). And I really tried to make clear cutoffs. The hardest one is where ELITE/TRANSCENDENT meets FOUNDATION.

After that, it's pretty bleh. You have guys who I'd feel really good about as backups, but hate as starters (like Sanchez, Cassel, Palmer, Kolb, etc).

I have no idea wtf to make of Freeman. Or Matt Moore. Or Peyton, for that matter.








And way down here is Blaine Gabbert.

This list looks just about right to me.
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Old 02-06-2012, 05:51 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by DraftSavant View Post
Really, the place where they ****** up was with not wanting to pay Seymour.

I don't think they should pay Welker what he'll command, either, but that could just be me.
I think despite how awesome Welker has been for us all these years, Pats fans are having trouble with the notion of paying him like a top WR when he doesn't make the plays a top WR would make. You ass hole Welker.

I was ok with getting a first rounder for a thirty year old Seymour at the time. Unfortunately we just have continued to use our firsts to trade down and acquire more mid rounders.
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Old 02-06-2012, 05:53 PM    (permalink
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DraftSavant pretty much nailed it too. I agree with his assessment of Cam Newton, I think he has potential to completely flip our definition of qb upside down in the coming years.
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Old 02-06-2012, 06:35 PM    (permalink
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Hard to do when your QB takes up so much cap space. Believe me, I know.
Meh the Pats have cap space, they've just managed it terribly the past few years. They overpayed Mayo and are going to have about 13 million in dead money this year from the Ocho, Bodden, Warren, and Banta Cain contracts. The team has made so many errors the past few years they'd be an absolute juggernaut if they hadn't drafted poorly and signed the wrong guys.
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Old 02-06-2012, 06:52 PM    (permalink
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Elite

To me Elite means you are perennially in the MVP conversation year in and year out. These three players are the only ones who have been in that conversation for at least three years.

Tom Brady
Peyton Manning
Drew Brees

Near Elite

Well on their way to the Elite category they need to sustain the success that they've shown this season to grow into the elite category.

Eli Manning
Aaron Rodgers
Ben Rothelsburger

Tier 2

Second Tier Upper

Second Tier Upper players have a ton of talent all the ability to make their way into the near elite category in the next season. Players in this category should be considered the starter for the team for the foreseeable future and be considered an above average starter.

Matt Stafford
Cam Newton
Matt Schawb
Phillip Rivers
Mike Vick
Jay Cutler
Matt Ryan

Tier 2 Lower

These players are still relatively safe are likely going to be the long term solution for their teams but are IMO average starters.

Sam Bradford
Joe Flacco
Andy Dalton
Christian Ponder
Josh Freeman

Tier 3

This Tier is the type of QB who could realistically lose their starting position with a bad season next year. Or backups who will gain a starting position next year

Alex Smith
Matt Hasselbeck
Jake Locker
Matt Flynn
Tony Romo
Matt Cassel
Kyle Orton

Tier 4

QBs who could (or should) realistically lose their jobs to a rookie/backup /free agent and better backups (NOT NAMED Peyton Manning)

Carson Palmer
Jason Campbell
Mark Sanchez
Chad Henne
Rex Grossman
Joe Webb
Shaun Hill

Tier 5

Those QBs who shouldn't have been starting in the first place

Tavaris Jackson
Colt McCoy
Kevin Kolb

Tier 6

Tim Tebow

Tim Tebow
Blaine Gabbert
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Old 02-06-2012, 06:58 PM    (permalink
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lol @ Capt DinkandDunk
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Old 02-06-2012, 06:59 PM    (permalink
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Tier One:

1A-Aaron Rodgers
1B-Tom Brady
1C-Peyton Manning (could drop if he's not the same player after the surgeries)
1D-Drew Brees
5-Eli Manning
6A-Ben Roethlisberger
6B-Philip Rivers

Tier Two:

8-Matthew Stafford (closing in on tier 1)
9-Matt Ryan
10-Tony Romo
11-Jay Cutler
12-Mike Vick


Then I think these guys are very close to Tier Two:

Cam Newton
Andy Dalton
Matt Schaub

and these guys are in make or break years I think:

Mark Sanchez
Joe Flacco

everyone else is either no good, washed up, or too young and not yet reaching their potential.
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Old 02-06-2012, 07:31 PM    (permalink
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Elite

To me Elite means you are perennially in the MVP conversation year in and year out. These three players are the only ones who have been in that conversation for at least three years.

Tom Brady
Peyton Manning
Drew Brees

Near Elite

Well on their way to the Elite category they need to sustain the success that they've shown this season to grow into the elite category.

Eli Manning
Aaron Rodgers
Ben Rothelsburger

Tier 2

Second Tier Upper

Second Tier Upper players have a ton of talent all the ability to make their way into the near elite category in the next season. Players in this category should be considered the starter for the team for the foreseeable future and be considered an above average starter.

Matt Stafford
Cam Newton
Matt Schawb
Phillip Rivers
Mike Vick
Jay Cutler
Matt Ryan

Tier 2 Lower

These players are still relatively safe are likely going to be the long term solution for their teams but are IMO average starters.

Sam Bradford
Joe Flacco
Andy Dalton
Christian Ponder
Josh Freeman

Tier 3

This Tier is the type of QB who could realistically lose their starting position with a bad season next year. Or backups who will gain a starting position next year

Alex Smith
Matt Hasselbeck
Jake Locker
Matt Flynn


Tier 4

QBs who could (or should) realistically lose their jobs to a rookie/backup /free agent and better backups (NOT NAMED Peyton Manning)

Carson Palmer
Jason Campbell
Mark Sanchez
Chad Henne
Rex Grossman
Joe Webb
Shaun Hill

Tier 5

Those QBs who shouldn't have been starting in the first place

Tavaris Jackson
Colt McCoy


Tier 6

Tim Tebow

Tim Tebow
I like these tiers. I don't know why, but Eli could win multiple SB and I still wouldn't put him in the Elite category. There's just something about the guy that doesn't fit in that category.
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Old 02-06-2012, 08:20 PM    (permalink
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Poor Rivers. If he doesn't drop the stinkin ball in KC I'm guessing he'd be much higher on these lists.

After Gaither joined the team he was back to being his old elite self.
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Old 02-06-2012, 10:03 PM    (permalink
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I like these tiers. I don't know why, but Eli could win multiple SB and I still wouldn't put him in the Elite category. There's just something about the guy that doesn't fit in that category.
It's his #s and more specifically how they compare to his big brother's. If you just watched him and didn't look up his numbers or know who his brother was, you'd easily see why so many people consider him elite.
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Old 02-06-2012, 11:21 PM    (permalink
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It's his #s and more specifically how they compare to his big brother's. If you just watched him and didn't look up his numbers or know who his brother was, you'd easily see why so many people consider him elite.
Not really it is about how he compares to the top tier players at the position. There is a noticeable gap between how well those three players play and the next set of guys. Brees Brady and Manning the Elder play at a higher level for longer than Eli. Period.
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oh please. as if canadians even know what beer is.
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Old 02-06-2012, 11:23 PM    (permalink
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Not really it is about how he compares to the top tier players at the position. There is a noticeable gap between how well those three players play and the next set of guys. Brees Brady and Manning the Elder play at a higher level for longer than Eli. Period.
I think people in this thread are having different discussions, or using different parameters anyway. No doubt Eli has fewer career accomplishments than guys like big bro Manning, Brees, or Brady. But if you are looking at who is the best going into 2012, lil Manning has to be ranked up there. I don't usually buy into the whole "clutch" argument but it's hard to argue against it with him.
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Old 02-06-2012, 11:35 PM    (permalink
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I think people in this thread are having different discussions, or using different parameters anyway. No doubt Eli has fewer career accomplishments than guys like big bro Manning, Brees, or Brady. But if you are looking at who is the best going into 2012, lil Manning has to be ranked up there. I don't usually buy into the whole "clutch" argument but it's hard to argue against it with him.
Ok lets look at it another way. Lets say that the NFL was found to be a front for the Taliban and must be dismantled the new league has a draft to determine the new teams. Would Eli be a serious candidate for #1 overall? If you say no then there must be a sizable gap between those who are in consideration and Eli. Thus he isn't elite.
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oh please. as if canadians even know what beer is.
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Old 02-06-2012, 11:40 PM    (permalink
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Any list with Tebow not at No. 1 is just plain laughable.
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Old 02-06-2012, 11:40 PM    (permalink
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God I hate QB rankings. Why do I have to have Cassel. Why. :(
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