Offseason Discussion Thread - Page 9

DraftSavant · 02-09-2012, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeerBaron

bigbluedefense · 02-09-2012, 12:27 PM

Supposedly Jackson isn't staying in SD.

Which means the Chargers went from arguably the most talented team in the league from 06-09, to Phillip Rivers and a bunch of scrubs in 2012.

The AFC West is sooo bad...

Razor · 02-09-2012, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeerBaron

You're not going to get a first for a franchised 31 year old 5'10 WR who wants to be paid big money in a long term deal.

So scratch that idea out of your head right now.

WW looked faster and more explosive this year than any of the other years. He caught the ball better (SB excluded) than before too. I would probably "settle" for a late first or equivalent value since I think he is that good. He's not only a product of Brady, neither is Brady a product of WW. They're co-dependent and I think WW deserves some of the credit. I don't think WW is going to want big money either. I think $7 mill. per year is fair as long as there are some incentives included. He's earned that contract imo, even though he wasn't playing for pennies before either.

Sloopy · 02-09-2012, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

Supposedly Jackson isn't staying in SD.

Which means the Chargers went from arguably the most talented team in the league from 06-09, to Phillip Rivers and a bunch of scrubs in 2012.

The AFC West is sooo bad...

Scary thing is that the Broncos (and thus Tebow) are probably the favorites to win the division next year.

Oakland has shot themselves in the foot for the next few years (and possibly the next decade if they let the young talent on this team go to waist)

The Chiefs are, well the Chiefs. would probably be the #2 favorite and could challenge.

You've said all you need to say about the Chargers.

Meanwhile you have a top defense in the league in Denver and an offense which can do enough to get them the W in the games they should win and even pull out the occasional upset.

ATLDirtyBirds · 02-09-2012, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DraftSavant

OMG, an offense with Mallett, Wallace, Streeter, and teh Gronkzz would be so tits.

9 routes all day, baby! Hit dem fadez.

It'd be orgasmic. I think we all know what's going to happen though.

Franchise Welker, let Branch go, sign Lloyd, draft 4th round WR (T.Y. Hilton?)

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf) · 02-09-2012, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sloopy

Scary thing is that the Broncos (and thus Tebow) are probably the favorites to win the division next year.

Oakland has shot themselves in the foot for the next few years (and possibly the next decade if they let the young talent on this team go to waist)

The Chiefs are, well the Chiefs. would probably be the #2 favorite and could challenge.

You've said all you need to say about the Chargers.

Meanwhile you have a top defense in the league in Denver and an offense which can do enough to get them the W in the games they should win and even pull out the occasional upset.

Denver's D is really overrated. I seriously don't get it. 20th in yards and 24th in points. They have some nice pieces on defense certainly, but they have a ways to go before they're even an above average defense. The reason we won so many games is that the running game was so prolific and Tebow was able to do some crazy things in 4th quarters. It wasn't the defense carrying the team like the 2000 Ravens.

San Diego SHOULD still win the West. Rivers and a bunch of scrubs>>>>>>>>>> the scrubs of the AFC West that don't have Rivers. I just hope Tebow makes enough progression this offseason to the point where he's at least a decent passer, most of the time. That game against the Steelers gave me hope, we know he has it in him to be able to make good throws, just has to do it consistently. If he can do that, we might have a shot at the division again. But he's not taking anyone by surprise anymore if he doesn't improve. Second games against the Chiefs and Patriots we put up a combined 13 points. Not gonna cut it, even if our defense gets as good as people pretend it is.

bigbluedefense · 02-09-2012, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sloopy

Scary thing is that the Broncos (and thus Tebow) are probably the favorites to win the division next year.

Oakland has shot themselves in the foot for the next few years (and possibly the next decade if they let the young talent on this team go to waist)

The Chiefs are, well the Chiefs. would probably be the #2 favorite and could challenge.

You've said all you need to say about the Chargers.

Meanwhile you have a top defense in the league in Denver and an offense which can do enough to get them the W in the games they should win and even pull out the occasional upset.

My favorites right now are the Chiefs actually. If they can re-sign their guys and get a healthy Eric Berry. Matt Cassell isn't good, but he doesn't suck either. Ok, well maybe he's closer to sucking than being good, but in that division, it almost doesn't matter.

BeerBaron · 02-09-2012, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

My favorites right now are the Chiefs actually. If they can re-sign their guys and get a healthy Eric Berry. Matt Cassell isn't good, but he doesn't suck either. Ok, well maybe he's closer to sucking than being good, but in that division, it almost doesn't matter.

Matt Cassel is the 2nd best QB in the division. Scary eh?

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf) · 02-09-2012, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

My favorites right now are the Chiefs actually. If they can re-sign their guys and get a healthy Eric Berry. Matt Cassell isn't good, but he doesn't suck either. Ok, well maybe he's closer to sucking than being good, but in that division, it almost doesn't matter.

I still think San Diego should win. It's a QB driven league and they're the only team in the division with an above average QB. And it's been that way since the Cutler trade. If the Chiefs defense steps up to being an elite unit, and Charles comes back and has a great year, I can understand it, but otherwise, I'll be shocked if San Diego doesn't win, same way I am every year they don't. No excuses in that division.

Rosebud · 02-09-2012, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

Barden sucks. Let it go.

Laurent Robinson is legit. There were times when I'd see him on the field, and I thought it was Miles Austin. He runs just like him.

Probably. But he'll get one more year from this team and I honestly wouldn't be shocked if he actually did well if he's healthy when it's his turn to see the field.

Laurent Robinson is the guy I'd most like to bring in, he's going to get hurt at somepoint, but he'd do great to start the season while we groom Jernigan a little more.

Rosebud · 02-09-2012, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

Supposedly Jackson isn't staying in SD.

Which means the Chargers went from arguably the most talented team in the league from 06-09, to Phillip Rivers and a bunch of scrubs in 2012.

The AFC West is sooo bad...

I think it's because Tebow got me to start praying that he's able to keep doing what he's done. Now the Chargers are going to fall apart, the Raiders will keep self-imploding and the Chiefs will keep Cassel as their QB...

bigbluedefense · 02-09-2012, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rosebud

Probably. But he'll get one more year from this team and I honestly wouldn't be shocked if he actually did well if he's healthy when it's his turn to see the field.

Laurent Robinson is the guy I'd most like to bring in, he's going to get hurt at somepoint, but he'd do great to start the season while we groom Jernigan a little more.

He deserves preseason and nothing more. If he can't show us something in the preseason, then he needs to get cut. There's absolutely no point of keeping a WR as your 4th/5th guy when he's constantly hurt, never sees the goalline, and can't play special teams. He provides nothing to the team in that situation.

njx9 · 02-09-2012, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)

Denver's D is really overrated. I seriously don't get it. 20th in yards and 24th in points. They have some nice pieces on defense certainly, but they have a ways to go before they're even an above average defense. The reason we won so many games is that the running game was so prolific and Tebow was able to do some crazy things in 4th quarters. It wasn't the defense carrying the team like the 2000 Ravens.

i disagree. if it weren't for tebow's near complete inability to convert a third down, well, ever, i think our d's numbers look rather dramatically different. nearly without fail, the only reason we were in a game for tebow to 'win' was because our defense wasn't breaking and because colquitt was making up for our offensive ineptitude. for instance, after our bye week, we held the opposing team under 20 half the time. we scored more than 20 3 times. in two out of the three games we gave up over 40 during that span, tebow was utterly and completely atrocious in 2 of them. the third was against the eventual afc champion. and all of this was with a defense that had one viable starter in the secondary, one decent linebacker, and journeymen at DT. a great defense? no. a pretty good one? absolutely.

Rosebud · 02-09-2012, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

He deserves preseason and nothing more. If he can't show us something in the preseason, then he needs to get cut. There's absolutely no point of keeping a WR as your 4th/5th guy when he's constantly hurt, never sees the goalline, and can't play special teams. He provides nothing to the team in that situation.

Ramses Barden not having a huge TC? BBD have you just erased all memory of everything that happened before we won the Superbowl? Ramses Barden is great at two things, riding the bike, and dominating training camp when he's not a rookie.

bigbluedefense · 02-09-2012, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rosebud

Ramses Barden not having a huge TC? BBD have you just erased all memory of everything that happened before we won the Superbowl? Ramses Barden is great at two things, riding the bike, and dominating training camp when he's not a rookie.

I meant preseason games. Not just practice in shorts.

Rosebud · 02-09-2012, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by njx9

i disagree. if it weren't for tebow's near complete inability to convert a third down, well, ever, i think our d's numbers look rather dramatically different. nearly without fail, the only reason we were in a game for tebow to 'win' was because our defense wasn't breaking and because colquitt was making up for our offensive ineptitude. for instance, after our bye week, we held the opposing team under 20 half the time. we scored more than 20 3 times. in two out of the three games we gave up over 40 during that span, tebow was utterly and completely atrocious in 2 of them. the third was against the eventual afc champion. and all of this was with a defense that had one viable starter in the secondary, one decent linebacker, and journeymen at DT. a great defense? no. a pretty good one? absolutely.

I really like some of those pieces you guys have.

Ayers-Bunkley-???-Doom
Miller-???-DJ Williams

isn't a bad start on the front 7. Not sure if Mays is the guy to make it all work from the middle, but if you guys add a stud DT and fix that secondary he might be good enough.

Rosebud · 02-09-2012, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

I meant preseason games. Not just practice in shorts.

But he'll be on the PUP list by then. How can he play in the preseason games if he's hurt?

njx9 · 02-09-2012, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rosebud

I really like some of those pieces you guys have.

Ayers-Bunkley-???-Doom
Miller-???-DJ Williams

isn't a bad start on the front 7. Not sure if Mays is the guy to make it all work from the middle, but if you guys add a stud DT and fix that secondary he might be good enough.

ty warren would fill in the other DT if he's ever healthy again. and i hate dj williams. he's never been the same since mike shanahan moved him out of WLB for ******* ian homeless-guy's-version-of-ernie-sims gold.

ideally, nate irving is ready to step in next year. joe mays is fine in a relief role, but he's just not good enough to be more than an occasional player.

DraftSavant · 02-09-2012, 01:22 PM

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL Ian Gold?! I love being reminded of bad 00s football players.

BeerBaron · 02-09-2012, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by njx9

i disagree. if it weren't for tebow's near complete inability to convert a third down, well, ever, i think our d's numbers look rather dramatically different. nearly without fail, the only reason we were in a game for tebow to 'win' was because our defense wasn't breaking and because colquitt was making up for our offensive ineptitude. for instance, after our bye week, we held the opposing team under 20 half the time. we scored more than 20 3 times. in two out of the three games we gave up over 40 during that span, tebow was utterly and completely atrocious in 2 of them. the third was against the eventual afc champion. and all of this was with a defense that had one viable starter in the secondary, one decent linebacker, and journeymen at DT. a great defense? no. a pretty good one? absolutely.

I think that outside of Von Miller, Denver's defense last year was just the conglomeration of a lot of mediocre players overachieving.

Dumervil wasn't much of a factor...Joe Mays? Marcus Thomas? Brodrick Bunkley? Meh, meh and meh. All free agents to boot. Woodyard? Also meh. Also a free agent. Robert Ayers? Worse than meh. Rafael Bush? Cassius Vaughn? Who?

Champ Bailey is also 33 so I give him another year or two at most.

The defense seriously overachieved for a stretch. Not to mention that during that stretch of wins, they faced the QBing awesomeness of, in order, Carson Palmer, Matt Cassel, Mark Sanchez, Philip Rivers having a ****** year, Christian Ponder and Caleb Hanie.

And Tom Brady, the one healthy good QB you faced, just ****** you up. Like, badly. Twice.

Although if you manage to sign Mario Williams, Curtis Lofton and like Brandon Carr, we can certainly talk more about it.

Rosebud · 02-09-2012, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by njx9

ty warren would fill in the other DT if he's ever healthy again. and i hate dj williams. he's never been the same since mike shanahan moved him out of WLB for ******* ian homeless-guy's-version-of-ernie-sims gold.

ideally, nate irving is ready to step in next year. joe mays is fine in a relief role, but he's just not good enough to be more than an occasional player.

Totally forgot you guys have Irving. Hell, if you guys can find a stud DT so that you're not depending on Ty Warren's health, That would be a very good front 7 that just need another rotational DE to keep guys fresh and make sure you never loss your ability to rush the passer. It would be cool if you guys and the Bills could fuse your defenses. Dareus-Kyle Williams with those edge guys would be amazing...so yeah, that Denver defense, people think it's good because it did a good job considering how much it was on the field and has some very nice pieces to build a great D out of.

Mr. Goosemahn · 02-09-2012, 01:28 PM

Lawrence Timmons has restructured his deal today, lowering his base salary to $700,000 and moving a signing bonus from this year to equal parts in the remaining year in his contract.

The move saves $5.14 million, meaning the Steelers have saved a little over $15 million during the past three days, and are only $5 million away from being under the cap.

They still need to shed more cap room to resign players and draft picks, but this is going better than expected. Assuming we need to shed $25 million more to keep Wallace ($5 more to be under, $5 for rookies, $15 for our FAs), here's what could happen:

Release OG Chris Kemoeatu - save $3.577 million
Release ILB Larry Foote - save $3.00 million

--- Now under the cap

Release Jonathan Scott - save $2.2 million
Release Will Allen - save $1.28 million
Restructure Casey Hampton - save $3.89 million
Restructure Hines Ward - save $3 million

That's $17 million so far. Roethlisberger will probably also get a restructure, maybe Polamalu or Harrison too.

Rosebud · 02-09-2012, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeerBaron

I think that outside of Von Miller, Denver's defense last year was just the conglomeration of a lot of mediocre players overachieving.

Dumervil wasn't much of a factor...Joe Mays? Marcus Thomas? Brodrick Bunkley? Meh, meh and meh. All free agents to boot. Woodyard? Also meh. Also a free agent. Robert Ayers? Worse than meh. Rafael Bush? Cassius Vaughn? Who?

Champ Bailey is also 33 so I give him another year or two at most.

The defense seriously overachieved for a stretch. Not to mention that during that stretch of wins, they faced the QBing awesomeness of, in order, Carson Palmer, Matt Cassel, Mark Sanchez, Philip Rivers having a ****** year, Christian Ponder and Caleb Hanie.

And Tom Brady, the one healthy good QB you faced, just ****** you up. Like, badly. Twice.

Although if you manage to sign Mario Williams, Curtis Lofton and like Brandon Carr, we can certainly talk more about it.

Bunkley was a great run stuffer for the eagles and exactly the type of guy they needed in the middle of their defense to make the wide-9 with those LBs anything less than terrible.

I really think that a stud DT makes that a strong front 7 that could be a great defense if you figured out a way to make the secondary as good. It's not like there's any reason for them to spend picks or money on offensive players this year.

brat316 · 02-09-2012, 01:29 PM

What happened to Rahim Moore?

brat316 · 02-09-2012, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Goosemahn

Lawrence Timmons has restructured his deal today, lowering his base salary to $700,000 and moving a signing bonus from this year to equal parts in the remaining year in his contract.

The move saves $5.14 million, meaning the Steelers have saved a little over $15 million during the past three days, and are only $5 million away from being under the cap.

They still need to shed more cap room to resign players and draft picks, but this is going better than expected. Assuming we need to shed $25 million more to keep Wallace ($5 more to be under, $5 for rookies, $15 for our FAs), here's what could happen:

Release OG Chris Kemoeatu - save $3.577 million
Release ILB Larry Foote - save $3.00 million

--- Now under the cap

Release Jonathan Scott - save $2.2 million
Release Will Allen - save $1.28 million
Restructure Casey Hampton - save $3.89 million
Restructure Hines Ward - save $3 million

That's $17 million so far. Roethlisberger will probably also get a restructure, maybe Polamalu or Harrison too.

I thought Hampton was at 8?