Draft Countdown Forums

Go Back   Draft Countdown Forums > Draft Countdown Forums > Pro Football

Pro Football Discuss professional football.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-28-2007, 09:26 AM    (permalink
LionSmack
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 555
Reputation: 217
LionSmack hopes to escalate quickly but not get out of hand.
Default

Any team that went to the Super Bowl is automatically out of this conversation, so even though Cinci has had some real bad stretches, I don't think they qualify.

Also I think you have to give expansion teams a long time, maybe 20 years, before you can say they've rightfully taken their place among the worst franchises. Sure the Texans and new Browns suck, but they just don't have the same body of work.

The Lions, Cards, and Saints are the only franchises that should be in contention.
LionSmack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2007, 09:30 AM    (permalink
portermvp84
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Bulimia twice the taste less calories
Posts: 3,467
Reputation: 49
portermvp84 hopes to escalate quickly but not get out of hand.
Default

I think it's the Lions because they have all of this talent and thye don't know how to use it.
__________________


Thanks to jackalope
portermvp84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2007, 09:33 AM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
Team Leader
Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Jersey
Posts: 28,899
Reputation: 3803561
bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

If it wasn't for Sean Payton this year, the New Orlean Saints would be running away with this topic. Everyone has short term memory, outside of this year, the Saints only won 1 playoff game in their entire franchise history.

Think about that.
__________________
bigbluedefense is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2007, 09:34 AM    (permalink
eacantdraft
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,137
Reputation: -170
eacantdraft smells like sex panther.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LionSmack View Post
Any team that went to the Super Bowl is automatically out of this conversation, so even though Cinci has had some real bad stretches, I don't think they qualify.

Also I think you have to give expansion teams a long time, maybe 20 years, before you can say they've rightfully taken their place among the worst franchises. Sure the Texans and new Browns suck, but they just don't have the same body of work.

The Lions, Cards, and Saints are the only franchises that should be in contention.
Cincinnati had some good teams in the 70's, 80's almost won one Super Bowl. It was from 1991 to 2003 that they were the laughing stock of the league. They just need to get rid of the problems on their teams and not add new ones.
eacantdraft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2007, 09:35 AM    (permalink
Billingsley26
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Mississauga
Posts: 4,037
Reputation: 1278
Billingsley26 is a cocksman.Billingsley26 is a cocksman.Billingsley26 is a cocksman.Billingsley26 is a cocksman.Billingsley26 is a cocksman.
Default

well the Saints may have won only one playoff game but i think the mere fact that Arizona has never HOSTED a playoff game in 40+ years still tops anything else.
Billingsley26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2007, 09:43 AM    (permalink
NFLBOY
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 245
Reputation: 15
NFLBOY hopes to escalate quickly but not get out of hand.
Default

Lions without question. Cards are close and of course the saints and bengals are right behind them.
NFLBOY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2007, 09:45 AM    (permalink
Vikes99ej
Icon
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Sioux Falls
Posts: 16,635
Reputation: 314354
Vikes99ej is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Vikes99ej is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Vikes99ej is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Vikes99ej is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Vikes99ej is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Vikes99ej is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Vikes99ej is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Vikes99ej is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Vikes99ej is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Vikes99ej is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Vikes99ej is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

I would have to say the Lions.
Vikes99ej is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2007, 10:20 AM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
Team Leader
Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Jersey
Posts: 28,899
Reputation: 3803561
bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

I love the Saints. They hold a special place in my heart. The year LT was drafted, we had the 2nd pick in the draft.

Every GM in the league other than NO's GM said theyd take LT with the first pick. Instead, NO takes a RB who lasts 6 years in the league who doesn't rush for more than 1200 yards during his tenior, and we get LT. And the rest is history.

Thank you NO. I'll never forget that gift you gave us.
__________________
bigbluedefense is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2007, 10:29 AM    (permalink
Bengals1690
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,512
Reputation: 297
Bengals1690 hopes to escalate quickly but not get out of hand.Bengals1690 hopes to escalate quickly but not get out of hand.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ewing View Post
I told myself I wasn't going to go on a long winded rant about this; but **** it you've made me do it. Here it goes...

For months leading up the draft it was obivious that the Texans should pick either Reggie Bush or Vince Young. Young is basically seen as the second coming of Jesus in the city of Houston which would have boosted ticket sales and judging by the way he played for the Titans a few more wins. They could have easily traded Carr to a team that needed a QB. Reggie would have been the spark to the offense that the team needed. They could have ran a duel back system with him and Davis similar to Deuce and Reggie. Carr finally would have had another target besides Andre Johnson.

Yet, they decide to draft neither of these guys and their is excuse is that Carr and Davis are their franchise offensive players. Apparently in Houston franchise means one season as they were both cut on Friday. You explain to me, logically, how in one year a quarterback goes from "the franchise" to being cut. They went back on everything they said last April with their trade for Schaub and their cuts of Davis and Carr.

The other excuse they used was that they wouldn't be able to stop anybody with Reggie and Vince. Fair arguement but guess what. They still can't stop anybody. Mario Williams may have great potential but he didn't do squat his rookie year while Vince Young won Rookie Of The Year and damn near lead his team to playoffs while the Texans finished with the eighth overall selection and Bush was a key part to the Saints rise to the elite in the NFC.

I'll sum up why they screwed up with one simple video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKURxvgBU5g

Explain to me how you had a succesful draft when everybody in the stadium is cheering the rival's quarterback as he scores the game winning TD.

Well, again you are wrong. You can't say that Houston made a terrible draft. They didnt take Bush and Young because they had Carr and Davis. They couldn't give up on Carr then, espcially with the horrible offensive line play. Davis was a good back, he rushed for 3195 yards and 23 touchdowns in three season behind a suspect offensive line. Last year, the Texan's biggest problems were on the other side of the ball, which is why they drafted Mariom who had 47 total tackles (35 solo) and 4.5 sacks, which are both respectable numbers for a rookie. We will compare that to Bush's and Young's numbers.

Bush- 565 yards rushing on 155 attempts (3.6 average), 88 recpetions 742 yards (8.4 average) 2 fumbles, and an interception (just wanted to throw that in there).

^he had a good rookie year as a reciever, but rookie backs like Maurice Jones Drew, Joe Addai, and Laurence Maroney made him look lke a slug. Without the offensive mastermind Sean Payton coaching him, he probably would have not gotten half of his touches as a reciever. Besides, Houston is a zone blocking team, and bush doesnt hit the hole quick enough for that. Kubiak isnt clever enough to come up with creative ways to get the ball in in his hands, Bush probably woulda busted in Houston.

Vince young- 51.5 completion percentage, 6.16 yards per attempt, 12 touchdowns, 13 interceptions, 66.7 quarterback rating.

I must have missed the memo about how quarterbacks are now judged on how many games their teams win instead of how they throw the ball. If you can make this arguement, i could say that Phillip Rivers is the best quarterback in the NFL. Jason Campbell, Drew Bledsoe, Matt Leinart, Seneca Wallace, Kurt Warner, Rex Grossman, Jon Kitna, and Jay Cutler ( I dont fell like finding more, you get the point) all had a a better QB ratin than vince, but he was rookie of the year. If the Vince young bandwagon was correct, than rex grossman is a better quarterback than Carson Palmer. And im sorry, but that is just not the case,


The bottom line is, none of these three players were outstanging their rookie season. Later picks at the same postions produced more ( Leinart,k Jones-Drew,), but it is one year into their careers, you cannot say one is better than the other yet.


and sean payton and drew b was the saints reason for their rise, not bush. They forced the ball into bushes hands
__________________


Quote:
Originally Posted by mythbusta View Post
i love my pedestal. thats why im the mythbusta.
who dey?
Bengals1690 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2007, 11:18 AM    (permalink
Jay
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Worcester, MA
Posts: 4,542
Reputation: 5447
Jay is so wise,  like a miniature Buddha covered with hairJay is so wise,  like a miniature Buddha covered with hairJay is so wise,  like a miniature Buddha covered with hairJay is so wise,  like a miniature Buddha covered with hairJay is so wise,  like a miniature Buddha covered with hairJay is so wise,  like a miniature Buddha covered with hairJay is so wise,  like a miniature Buddha covered with hairJay is so wise,  like a miniature Buddha covered with hairJay is so wise,  like a miniature Buddha covered with hairJay is so wise,  like a miniature Buddha covered with hairJay is so wise,  like a miniature Buddha covered with hair
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
new england - 20
new york (a) - 12
Haha, nice.
__________________
Jay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2007, 12:13 PM    (permalink
terribletowel39
All-Pro
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: *Hakuna Matata*
Posts: 5,082
Reputation: 147136
terribletowel39 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.terribletowel39 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.terribletowel39 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.terribletowel39 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.terribletowel39 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.terribletowel39 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.terribletowel39 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.terribletowel39 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.terribletowel39 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.terribletowel39 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.terribletowel39 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

so all this talk about worst franchise going around, who wins the best franchise award??

and i think it is the saints, even though i am a native of louisiana, this yr and one yr in the early 90's is the only yr i ever got excited about them playing.
__________________


Silverback....still the best.

+rep to Jakey for the sig
terribletowel39 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2007, 12:19 PM    (permalink
portermvp84
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Bulimia twice the taste less calories
Posts: 3,467
Reputation: 49
portermvp84 hopes to escalate quickly but not get out of hand.
Default

The Cardinals really have to turn their season around year. They got a good coaching staff and promising players, all they really need is a decent defense. In this draft they should invest in some good defense quialty guys.
__________________


Thanks to jackalope
portermvp84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2007, 12:21 PM    (permalink
terribletowel39
All-Pro
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: *Hakuna Matata*
Posts: 5,082
Reputation: 147136
terribletowel39 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.terribletowel39 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.terribletowel39 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.terribletowel39 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.terribletowel39 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.terribletowel39 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.terribletowel39 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.terribletowel39 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.terribletowel39 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.terribletowel39 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.terribletowel39 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
by context, i'm assuming you meant for "worst" franchise, but your statement is ambiguous.
well i am hoping that noone on this site is foolish enough to think i meant the saints as best franchise. sorry for the confusion i may have caused.
__________________


Silverback....still the best.

+rep to Jakey for the sig
terribletowel39 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2007, 12:58 PM    (permalink
terribletowel39
All-Pro
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: *Hakuna Matata*
Posts: 5,082
Reputation: 147136
terribletowel39 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.terribletowel39 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.terribletowel39 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.terribletowel39 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.terribletowel39 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.terribletowel39 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.terribletowel39 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.terribletowel39 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.terribletowel39 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.terribletowel39 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.terribletowel39 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
you'd be surprised with some of the homers here...
haha this is true.
__________________


Silverback....still the best.

+rep to Jakey for the sig
terribletowel39 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2007, 01:50 PM    (permalink
Jay
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Worcester, MA
Posts: 4,542
Reputation: 5447
Jay is so wise,  like a miniature Buddha covered with hairJay is so wise,  like a miniature Buddha covered with hairJay is so wise,  like a miniature Buddha covered with hairJay is so wise,  like a miniature Buddha covered with hairJay is so wise,  like a miniature Buddha covered with hairJay is so wise,  like a miniature Buddha covered with hairJay is so wise,  like a miniature Buddha covered with hairJay is so wise,  like a miniature Buddha covered with hairJay is so wise,  like a miniature Buddha covered with hairJay is so wise,  like a miniature Buddha covered with hairJay is so wise,  like a miniature Buddha covered with hair
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
thank god for tom brady, eh? it's sort of amazing how bad new england was for so long, and then how good they all of a sudden got. you'd think some of these other moribund franchises would've tried to follow their example.
Even without Tom Brady, we're still better than half the NFL as far as your list.

And to be honest, that surprised me.
__________________
Jay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2007, 02:11 PM    (permalink
PalmerToCJ
Team Leader
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,265
Reputation: 21160
PalmerToCJ is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PalmerToCJ is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PalmerToCJ is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PalmerToCJ is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PalmerToCJ is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PalmerToCJ is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PalmerToCJ is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PalmerToCJ is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PalmerToCJ is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PalmerToCJ is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PalmerToCJ is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NFLBOY View Post
Lions without question. Cards are close and of course the saints and bengals are right behind them.
While the Bengals were horrible in the 90's we have two AFC championships to our name.
PalmerToCJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2007, 02:11 PM    (permalink
Jay
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Worcester, MA
Posts: 4,542
Reputation: 5447
Jay is so wise,  like a miniature Buddha covered with hairJay is so wise,  like a miniature Buddha covered with hairJay is so wise,  like a miniature Buddha covered with hairJay is so wise,  like a miniature Buddha covered with hairJay is so wise,  like a miniature Buddha covered with hairJay is so wise,  like a miniature Buddha covered with hairJay is so wise,  like a miniature Buddha covered with hairJay is so wise,  like a miniature Buddha covered with hairJay is so wise,  like a miniature Buddha covered with hairJay is so wise,  like a miniature Buddha covered with hairJay is so wise,  like a miniature Buddha covered with hair
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
iirc, starting in about the 90's, all of a sudden that patriots got really good. i believe there was a string of about 8 straight years with less than 6 wins in the 80's, and a similar streak in the 70's... combine that with the sox, and it's a good thing you people had the celtics or boston would be just about as desolate as detroit.
I disagree. The Sox were and still are almost always in it, the Bruins went to the playoffs for about 30 straight years and went far on several occasions, and the Patriots had several decent runs in every decade. Now, they may not have been prolonged or had the early success of some of the other teams, but they still had about as many decent seasons as every other average NFL team that wasn't Dallas, San Fran, Pitt, etc. They just had one of the worst ownership situations in the league.

That said, they still had 14 winning seasons before Tom Brady, which is about 47% of the seasons played since 1970 (according to your list). Considering half the NFL can't say that, I'll take it...
__________________
Jay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2007, 02:16 PM    (permalink
Shiver
Icon
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: The Lynn Swan of SWDC Hall of Fame
Posts: 18,198
Reputation: 210983
Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
For all the raving of Vince Young, he's still an unproven passer.
This is something I wanted to give my input on. Its ironic to me, that everyone proclaims Michael Vick as overrated, over hyped. Yet, these are the same people who are anointing Vince Young. Quite frankly; those people are short-sighted.

There is nothing Vince Young did last year, that equaled Michael Vick's '02 season. Michael Vick outclassed Young, as a passer, runner, he led a mediocre team to the playoffs, and a road playoff win, he willed his team to victories that year. However, because he hasn't evolved since then, people conveniently forget about that. Vick didn't progress, for a multitude of reasons, which have been well noted. Thus far, there is no indication that Vince Young will become a elite passer, and runner, at the same time. Actually; it may even be presumptuous to assume he ever matches Michael Vick's '02 season, or even Randall Cunningham in his prime, dominance.

Quote:
Reggie Bush would NOT succeed greatly in Houston. They run ZBS. Reggie Bush for all his accolades has been a below average RB in the NFL so far.
It's amazing that no one recognizes the horrible scheme fit, Reggie Bush was. Even prior to the draft, rumors were the Texans weren't interested in Bush, word from Bush's camp was that the Texans didn't intend on taking him. Yet, everyone was a gasped as to how that could be. If you compare Bush's rushing production to any rookie RB, he was horrible. Even Wali Lundy, Leon Washington, day-2 players, were more productive on the ground. Reggie Bush should be thankful New Orleans took him, otherwise, he would have looked like a bust in Houston. It was never a good fit, which is why they didn't take him. Why people cannot grasp that basic concept, is bewildering to me.

Quote:
Mario Williams has the potential, and before he got injured was realizing it, to be a dominant DE in the league. They got an absolute stud MIKE in DeMeco Ryans. They built up their oline. They got a good TE in the draft. They got rid of the deadweight known as Carr and got a solid qb for cheap. They have a plan, thats building a dominant defense to combat Peyton Manning. And I think it will work. You can't kill Mario Williams after an injury filled rookie year. Couple the fact that even then, he outperformed Reggie Bush for most of the season, I don't see your line of reasoning. Don't jump to conclusions so quickly. I think the Texans so far are making all the right moves. Come back to me in 3 years, and see if you still feel the same way. I guarantee you the Texans will prove they made the right moves 3 years from now.
The Texans had one of the most acclaimed drafts last year, yet all anyone can think about is that first pick. To go along with your points, before his plantar fasciitis, he was out-performing his fellow draftees. Those who are vocal against the Texans' draft decision last year, assume Bush will improve as a runner, Young as a passer. Yet, they are hypocritical, because they assume Mario Williams, a 21-year old, won't improve his technique, and pass rush repertoire. Best case:
  • Reggie Bush becomes Brian Westbrook, except more durable.
  • Vince Young becomes Randall Cunningham.
  • Mario Williams can be Julius Peppers, only bigger, stronger.
__________________


Last edited by Shiver : 03-28-2007 at 02:22 PM.
Shiver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2007, 05:59 PM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
Team Leader
Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Jersey
Posts: 28,899
Reputation: 3803561
bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiver View Post
This is something I wanted to give my input on. Its ironic to me, that everyone proclaims Michael Vick as overrated, over hyped. Yet, these are the same people who are anointing Vince Young. Quite frankly; those people are short-sighted.

There is nothing Vince Young did last year, that equaled Michael Vick's '02 season. Michael Vick outclassed Young, as a passer, runner, he led a mediocre team to the playoffs, and a road playoff win, he willed his team to victories that year. However, because he hasn't evolved since then, people conveniently forget about that. Vick didn't progress, for a multitude of reasons, which have been well noted. Thus far, there is no indication that Vince Young will become a elite passer, and runner, at the same time. Actually; it may even be presumptuous to assume he ever matches Michael Vick's '02 season, or even Randall Cunningham in his prime, dominance.



It's amazing that no one recognizes the horrible scheme fit, Reggie Bush was. Even prior to the draft, rumors were the Texans weren't interested in Bush, word from Bush's camp was that the Texans didn't intend on taking him. Yet, everyone was a gasped as to how that could be. If you compare Bush's rushing production to any rookie RB, he was horrible. Even Wali Lundy, Leon Washington, day-2 players, were more productive on the ground. Reggie Bush should be thankful New Orleans took him, otherwise, he would have looked like a bust in Houston. It was never a good fit, which is why they didn't take him. Why people cannot grasp that basic concept, is bewildering to me.



The Texans had one of the most acclaimed drafts last year, yet all anyone can think about is that first pick. To go along with your points, before his plantar fasciitis, he was out-performing his fellow draftees. Those who are vocal against the Texans' draft decision last year, assume Bush will improve as a runner, Young as a passer. Yet, they are hypocritical, because they assume Mario Williams, a 21-year old, won't improve his technique, and pass rush repertoire. Best case:
  • Reggie Bush becomes Brian Westbrook, except more durable.
  • Vince Young becomes Randall Cunningham.
  • Mario Williams can be Julius Peppers, only bigger, stronger.
Yup, yup, yup and yup. Basically, you hit it on the head. In 3 years, we'll see what people say about the Texans draft. They made the right moves.
__________________
bigbluedefense is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2007, 06:06 PM    (permalink
BlindSite
All-Pro
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 6,728
Reputation: 56147
BlindSite is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BlindSite is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BlindSite is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BlindSite is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BlindSite is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BlindSite is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BlindSite is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BlindSite is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BlindSite is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BlindSite is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BlindSite is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiver View Post
[*]Mario Williams can be Julius Peppers, only bigger, stronger.[/list]
Last year peppers reported for the regular season at 292 pounds. So he's bigger and stronger than Mario, and a hell of a lot faster.
__________________

BlindSite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2007, 06:09 PM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
Team Leader
Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Jersey
Posts: 28,899
Reputation: 3803561
bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlindSite View Post
Last year peppers reported for the regular season at 292 pounds. So he's bigger and stronger than Mario, and a hell of a lot faster.
Theyre the same speed straight line, but Peppers right now has more fluid hips.

Williams won't be as athletic as Peppers, but I think he'll be stronger and more of a Reggie White type of DE than Peppers, ie a better bullrusher.

Now, I am NOT saying that he's gonna be the next Reggie White, all Im saying is his style will translate more favorably to White's style, whereas I see Peppers being more of a Bruce Smith type of DE in terms of style.
__________________
bigbluedefense is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2007, 06:10 PM    (permalink
Big Mike
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Toronto, ONT.
Posts: 1,996
Reputation: 95
Big Mike hopes to escalate quickly but not get out of hand.
Default

Cleveland Browns
__________________


ALL COMPLIMENTS TO: BANTX FOR THE SIG

XBOX360 Gamertag: GZA88
Big Mike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2007, 06:11 PM    (permalink
dcarey20
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 2,531
Reputation: 992
dcarey20 is a cocksman.dcarey20 is a cocksman.dcarey20 is a cocksman.dcarey20 is a cocksman.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ewing View Post
Houston Texans. I've already ranted and raved enough about how much they suck in previous threads.
i love ur sig
__________________
dcarey20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2007, 06:13 PM    (permalink
Shiver
Icon
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: The Lynn Swan of SWDC Hall of Fame
Posts: 18,198
Reputation: 210983
Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Shiver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlindSite View Post
Last year peppers reported for the regular season at 292 pounds. So he's bigger and stronger than Mario, and a hell of a lot faster.
Mario Williams blew Peppers' away, at this time of their respective careers. There wasn't a single combine workout, which Peppers was superior to Williams. Sure, Peppers has improved. Mario Williams is still only 21-years old, he isn't done improving either. Gary Kubiak thinks, eventually, he will become a 6'6" 300+ pound defensive end, while retaining 4.7 range speed, 40-inch vertical, and will only get stronger. If Williams was bigger, stronger, more explosive, just as fast, as Peppers was at this time in his career. It isn't a stretch to assume that the same will apply when he, likewise, is 27-years old.
__________________


Last edited by Shiver : 03-28-2007 at 06:17 PM.
Shiver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2007, 06:16 PM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
Team Leader
Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Jersey
Posts: 28,899
Reputation: 3803561
bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiver View Post
Mario Williams blew Peppers' away, at this time of their respective careers. There wasn't a single combine workout, which Peppers was superior to Williams. Sure, Peppers has improved. Mario Williams is still only 21-years old, he isn't done improving either. Gary Kubiak thinks, eventually, he will become a 6'7" 300+ pound defensive end, while retaining 4.7 speed, 40+ inch vertical, inhuman strength.
To be fair though, the 6 7" size is a blessing and a curse. While it = long arm length, it also means poor leverage.

Thats why we haven't seen Peppers dominate the DE position the way we all envisioned. While he's solid, he plays with poor leverage, and at the end of the day, dline is all about leverage. Athleticism doesn't last forever, but leverage does. Guys like Peppers and Williams will fall off harder at the end of their careers relative to guys like Strahan and Taylor because they'll never play with great leverage.

Leverage is how a guy like Strahan, who currently weighs 255 lbs, can play stronger than any DE in the league, including Peppers.
__________________
bigbluedefense is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:46 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.