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Old 02-21-2012, 08:26 AM    (permalink
Razor
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Default Is Wes Welker the Most Overrated Player in the NFL?

So, I read an article listing the ten most overrated players in the NFL. At the top of that list is Wes Welker. I this true? I think that Welker is a terrific slot receiver, but by no means a #1 wideout. Also, I don't think that Davone Bess or another NFL slot receiver could do the same thing as Welker has over the last five seasons. I could pretty easily mention quite a lot of players in the NFL that I feel is more overrated than Welker. But I wanted to see what NFLDC had to say about this. So.... Discuss!
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Old 02-21-2012, 08:29 AM    (permalink
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Article loses all of its credibility for refusing to name Michael Vick and going by dog-killer.
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Old 02-21-2012, 08:45 AM    (permalink
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Article loses all of its credibility for refusing to name Michael Vick and going by dog-killer.
Well, he is completely correct in saying that Michael Vick is overrated though. The fact that he has signed TWO $100 million contracts despite only playing 16 games once, never having back-to-back winning seasons, and being an asshole is outrageous. After last season, some people were putting Vick in the top-five of QBs and almost everybody listed him as a top-ten QB. Personally, I would put him more in the 13-15 range.

He is also pretty right on about DeSean Jackson (injury prone, one-trick pony). I think he should have listed Troy Polamalu, who misses a lot of tackle and is so poor in coverage that he often looks like he is covering dirt (and the dirt often beats him). I disagree about Brandon Marshall. He has five straight 1000 yard seasons, despite playing with Chad Henne and Matt Moore at QB.

About Welker, I do think he is overrated. I think he is in the perfect situation in New England. But if he was ever asked to be a number one receiver on a team, he would be average at best. Welker is great at what he does. But if I'm picking receivers to start a team, there would be a bunch of guys I would choose before Welker.
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Old 02-21-2012, 08:49 AM    (permalink
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I'm so sick of the system argument when it comes to Wes Welker. What's so wrong about finding a guy that fits your system and him mastering it?
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Old 02-21-2012, 08:50 AM    (permalink
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Randy Moss? Did he even play this year?
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Old 02-21-2012, 09:12 AM    (permalink
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Default

This article is horrible, and unprofessional. It seems like it is simply a list of people he hates, and I fail to see how anyone could take anything he says seriously.

Hell, his basis for putting Vick on there is that "He's not much of a runner anymore." Seriously? VICK RUNS TOO MUCH! VICK DOESN'T RUN ENOUGHZZZ!

Never mind the fact he averaged a full YPC more than last year.

He calls out Brandon Marshall's inability to WIN FOOTBALL GAMES. As a wide receiver.

Who actually thinks that Turner is an elite back anymore? Who actually thinks Blount ever was? Then, his reference for backing up his claim that Welker is overrated, is a quote from a forum mod of his. Excuse me for not actually giving a **** what the moderator of your forum thinks.
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Old 02-21-2012, 09:52 AM    (permalink
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I hate the whole "Welker's only a slot WR" argument. At the end of the day he played the most snaps at WR for the Patriots. Slot WR is a vital part of NFL offenses now. Many so called #1 WRs couldn't do what Wes Welker does because it is a completely different skill set. Wes Welker isn't going to line up outside the numbers and run fade routes because that doesn't suit him. In the same way that Calvin Johnson isn't going to line up in the slot and run whips and drags.

Playing in the slot and being successful requires a completely different skill set than lining up outside. Slot WRs don't necessarily have to beat CB coverage as much but they need to utilise the space they are afforded in the middle of the field. It requires much more cognitive thinking pre and post snap.

A WR will normally only have to worry about the way the CB and maybe the safety to his side are playing. Does the CB squat in short zone, is the safety rolling his way, is it man coverage, is it cover 3 etc. The slot WR will have to worry about nickel CBs, LB zones, safeties coming down, defensive linemen in zone blitz schemes etc.

Particularly for the Patriots, Welker needs to run more option routes and be on the same page as Tom Brady.

Is Welker physically on the same level as Calvin Johnson or Randy Moss? No but the position he plays requires him to be less of a physical freak and more of a thinker. Playing slot WR is completely different than being split out wide.

Demarcus Ware is a great OLB but I'm pretty sure he would suck at CB
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Old 02-21-2012, 10:02 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Splat View Post
I'm so sick of the system argument when it comes to Wes Welker. What's so wrong about finding a guy that fits your system and him mastering it?
Nothing is wrong with that, and I wouldn't say Welker is any less valuable to the Patriots than most top receivers are to their teams, but I certainly would pick many of them over Welker if I were starting a team from scratch. In that regard, I'd tend to agree that Welker is overrated. Put Calvin Johnson in any other scheme and he'll be excellent. Put Welker in any other scheme and he might just be good.
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Old 02-21-2012, 10:03 AM    (permalink
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You can make an argument that the slot WR is the most important piece to a passing offense nowadays.

In the 90s the TE emerged as a threat to beat Cover 2, which was dominating the NFL at the time.

Now that defenses have caught up (in theory) to those TEs, the slot WR who runs that choice route is the new mismatch of sorts. Not really a "new" mismatch, but a rediscovered mismatch.

If he's running a choice, he should beat any coverage you throw at him underneath as long as he diagnosises it accurately.
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Old 02-21-2012, 10:11 AM    (permalink
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I hate when someone "smart and crafty" uses that to their advantage. I would prefer an average player in all systems than the guy who decided to be great in my system.

I think it's down right stupid for anyone to show appreciation for a player making the most of the opportunity he was given. In fact, if I was Wes Welker, I would demand a trade to prove myself outside of that New England system and to get away from a future hall of fame candidate in Tom Brady.

It really makes you wonder what Bill Belichick was even thinking when he signed this guy. Once again, he aimlessly threw a dart at a board and got lucky. He probably had no idea what Welker could do and how he was going to use him in his system. Bill is just fortunate it all worked out, because it was a pretty stupid move to trade a 2nd and 7th round pick for such an overrated ball-dropping machine like Wes.
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Old 02-21-2012, 10:30 AM    (permalink
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Article loses all of its credibility for refusing to name Michael Vick and going by dog-killer.
Yeah, I can't really argue that. Whether it's "Dog Killer," "Rapelisberger" or the ever-so-clever "Belicheat," I immediately dismiss the author as a juvenile jackass and disregard anything that follows. In the first few months it's at least relevant, but a few years later it's the work of a petty and small mind.




Overrated / Underated discussions are pointless because they're too ambiguous.
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Old 02-21-2012, 10:35 AM    (permalink
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Overrated / Underated discussions are pointless because they're too ambiguous.
Too bad you feel that way. I was thinking that I'd put together an All Underrated and an All Overrated team and start some threads on those just to get the mayhem started. I hate when the season stops and activity falls in the forums. I probably should save that for after the draft though...
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Old 02-21-2012, 10:39 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Razor View Post
Too bad you feel that way. I was thinking that I'd put together an All Underrated and an All Overrated team and start some threads on those just to get the mayhem started. I hate when the season stops and activity falls in the forums. I probably should save that for after the draft though...
Please, feel free. I'm sure when it slows down in here I'll need something to crap on.


;)
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Old 02-21-2012, 10:46 AM    (permalink
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I don't think so! He is a damn good wr who is very productive. I think he is rated fine. I don't see an issue with Welker.
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Old 02-21-2012, 10:59 AM    (permalink
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Welker isn't in anyone's top 5 WRs.

Welker isn't spoken of in terms of being a do-it-all threat.

Welker is a guy who has a niche and excels at it.

No one is overrating him that I've seen. He's just damn good at his job.
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Old 02-21-2012, 11:11 AM    (permalink
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Welker isn't in anyone's top 5 WRs.

Welker isn't spoken of in terms of being a do-it-all threat.

Welker is a guy who has a niche and excels at it.

No one is overrating him that I've seen. He's just damn good at his job.
That's the thing. Top 5 of what? Most talented or Most productive? I think both are different things. Talent doesn't always translate into production. Welker was the most productive WR this past season. He may not be # 1 in talent, but when it came to productivity he was # 1.

So I find that very interesting between talent vs productivity. What a fan rather have? Elite talent or elite productivity?
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Old 02-21-2012, 11:20 AM    (permalink
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This article is horrible, and unprofessional. It seems like it is simply a list of people he hates, and I fail to see how anyone could take anything he says seriously.

Hell, his basis for putting Vick on there is that "He's not much of a runner anymore." Seriously? VICK RUNS TOO MUCH! VICK DOESN'T RUN ENOUGHZZZ!

Never mind the fact he averaged a full YPC more than last year.

He calls out Brandon Marshall's inability to WIN FOOTBALL GAMES. As a wide receiver.

Who actually thinks that Turner is an elite back anymore? Who actually thinks Blount ever was? Then, his reference for backing up his claim that Welker is overrated, is a quote from a forum mod of his. Excuse me for not actually giving a **** what the moderator of your forum thinks.
I agree with this assesment.

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Originally Posted by Bengalsrocket View Post
I hate when someone "smart and crafty" uses that to their advantage. I would prefer an average player in all systems than the guy who decided to be great in my system.

I think it's down right stupid for anyone to show appreciation for a player making the most of the opportunity he was given. In fact, if I was Wes Welker, I would demand a trade to prove myself outside of that New England system and to get away from a future hall of fame candidate in Tom Brady.

It really makes you wonder what Bill Belichick was even thinking when he signed this guy. Once again, he aimlessly threw a dart at a board and got lucky. He probably had no idea what Welker could do and how he was going to use him in his system. Bill is just fortunate it all worked out, because it was a pretty stupid move to trade a 2nd and 7th round pick for such an overrated ball-dropping machine like Wes.
Why the crap does it matter how a player does in other teams systems? You want the best players that can play in your system.

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Originally Posted by Abaddon View Post
Welker isn't in anyone's top 5 WRs.

Welker isn't spoken of in terms of being a do-it-all threat.

Welker is a guy who has a niche and excels at it.

No one is overrating him that I've seen. He's just damn good at his job.
Agreed.
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Old 02-21-2012, 11:42 AM    (permalink
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I stopped reading and started to skim and laugh after the Marshall being #5, which is complete nonsense. The Dolphins don't have an offense without him and he is a hell of a player. Nimwitted and a premadona sure, but a great wide receiver. Also, he just tore Vick a new one from what I skimmed. Welcome to the club u are now the last and prolly will be the last to bring up the whole dog fighting and all. I will not defend his actions, but dude is a good football player as well. Most versatile QB in the game besides Aaron Rodgers (meaning he can throw and scamble/run around). He also mentioned Jermichael Finley, in the honorable mention. SMH. And no Wes Welker is NOT overrated, he is just damn good.
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Old 02-21-2012, 12:23 PM    (permalink
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Why the crap does it matter how a player does in other teams systems? You want the best players that can play in your system.
Your sarcasm detector seems quite clearly broken.
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Old 02-21-2012, 12:54 PM    (permalink
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Welker is no where near overrated. No one pegs him as a #1 WR. He plays in the slot in New England 90% of the time it seems.

I think this article lacks credibility because somehow, Tim Tebow doesn't make the list.
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Old 02-21-2012, 03:19 PM    (permalink
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The stats Welker puts up is what makes him seem overrated. He only really runs short routes and he has Tom Brady hitting him in stride all the time so this leads to inflated catch and yard totals.

But he is great at his job and it's not like anyone ever says hes as good as Calvin Johnson or Larry Fitzgerald or anything so I don't see him as a player being overrated.

He's very valuable to the Pats and any team would love to have him, he's just not an all time great receiver that his stats might indicate.
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Old 02-21-2012, 04:38 PM    (permalink
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The guy is a jackass. Even if its just an honorable mention how the hell is Mike Bush considered overrated? He's the no. 2 back and he played well for the most part. Let's not even get into the rest of the list.
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Old 02-21-2012, 04:41 PM    (permalink
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"I think Giant fans understand now. Rolle gets terribly lost in coverage, and the numbers back it up. When targeting Rolle in 2011, opposing quarterbacks completed a whopping 81.6 percent of their passes and maintained a sterling quarterback rating of 126.1. On top of that, Rolle committed four penalties, which tied for sixth in the NFL (safeties only)."

Which Giants fan tried to tell me that Rolle is superior to Ed Reed in coverage at this point in their respective careers?
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Old 02-21-2012, 05:04 PM    (permalink
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That's the Perry fewell effect coupled with 5 Cbs on IR. That meant Rolle played more Cb this year because of that. I am sure all the stats for this defense especially the back end stunk. Did anyone actually watch the games? Forget the stats, watch the actually games! It was a mess with everyone not knowing what they were doing. That's why the team went t Fewell before the Jets game, and after the 2nd Skins game. That's when Fewell changed things around.

Before that it was a s.... show of a defense!
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Old 02-21-2012, 05:45 PM    (permalink
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I would say that Wes Welker would not be as good in many different environments. I am a firm believer that he is in the perfect place for him to succeed--the other two team he matches up well with would be Aaron Rodgers and Drew Brees.

What I mean to say is that I think he gets much of his value from his QB. Many WRs get their value from their QB so it's not necessarily a knock on him. However the truly game breaking WRs will be very successful no matter who is throwing the rock.

Over/underrated really is an ambiguous term. On his ability to change the game in any system or with any QB, I would not rate him highly. However, if I had a guy like Brady, Rodgers or Brees, Welker would be one of my top WRs.
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