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Old 02-29-2012, 12:59 AM    (permalink
VAfy-ya
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Vernon reminds me alot of Haralson actually. Relies almost entirely on an inconsistent bullrush.


One of the reasons I was so happy they prioritized Brooks is because IMO the FA crop and draft crop of 3-4 OLB prospects SUCKS for the most part.
Very much so. I still like Adrian Hamilton of Prarie View St. Not sure where he's slotted to go but he reminds me of a more athletic Dummervil. But like you said, this class is subpar for the most part.
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Old 02-29-2012, 03:40 AM    (permalink
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I like Stephen Hill, our coaches will mold that guy.
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Old 02-29-2012, 04:47 AM    (permalink
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I like Stephen Hill, our coaches will mold that guy.
The question is where do you take him?
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Old 02-29-2012, 07:33 AM    (permalink
VAfy-ya
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The question is where do you take him?
As soon as you can, lol. Seriously though, if he makes it to 30, he's the guy whose name I want to hear called.....unless someone falls who shouldnt be there.
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Old 02-29-2012, 08:19 AM    (permalink
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Stephen Hill is one of the only guys i would take at 30 as a WR because he is so physically gifted and have a lot of growth in him. In the case he is of the board is would prefer us to go BPA or trade down like 10 spots to pick up an extra pick and choose a guy like Fleener(if he is there).
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Old 02-29-2012, 09:57 AM    (permalink
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I would be kinda of bummed if we took Fleener at 30. Not that he isnt a great prospect but alot of our problems on offense stem from not having a real threat outside the hashes. Someone a CB cant just squat on or a guy who will make that safety take a few more steps to the sideline rather than key in on the middle of the field, trying to take away the slot and our TEs. I mean we do have two of the more dynamic TEs in the league and even they get handcuffed by the lack of playmakers on the outside.
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Old 02-29-2012, 11:06 AM    (permalink
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Thats true but thats why i say trade back. And imagine 3 te-sets with Walker-Fleener-Davis thats really a huge problem for almost every defense and since we al know how Harbaugh likes to play the game where its all about bal-control a real deep threat isn't of the most important. And in my opninion guys like Williams and Ginn(is he resigns) can go deep altough both aren't going to draw double teams.
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Old 02-29-2012, 01:18 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by VAfy-ya View Post
I would be kinda of bummed if we took Fleener at 30. Not that he isnt a great prospect but alot of our problems on offense stem from not having a real threat outside the hashes. Someone a CB cant just squat on or a guy who will make that safety take a few more steps to the sideline rather than key in on the middle of the field, trying to take away the slot and our TEs. I mean we do have two of the more dynamic TEs in the league and even they get handcuffed by the lack of playmakers on the outside.
Hmmmm, in regards to having a real threat outside the hashes, isnt that what I have been saying for weeks??? WTF???

With that said, im hoping for a top tier FA WR and Fleener at 30. Then, trade Walker during the same draft.
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Old 02-29-2012, 01:34 PM    (permalink
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Hmmmm, in regards to having a real threat outside the hashes, isnt that what I have been saying for weeks??? WTF???

With that said, im hoping for a top tier FA WR and Fleener at 30. Then, trade Walker during the same draft.
Dan, no one was arguing the need for a playmaker on the outside. The argument has ALWAYS been about whether it should be the guy we ALL know you want.
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Old 02-29-2012, 01:57 PM    (permalink
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Dan, no one was arguing the need for a playmaker on the outside. The argument has ALWAYS been about whether it should be the guy we ALL know you want.
Fair enough but I think that a speed deep threat is more important than a Colston/Jackson type. Dont get me wrong, if we get either of them, I wont complain but I prefer speed on the outside over power. Of course, I dont think that we'll even go after Wallace so it doesnt matter. Personally, I think that the Bengals should go after him (and Arian Foster) if either/or both arent franchised.

Oh well, a few more days to go and we'll all know who's franchised and who's not.
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Old 02-29-2012, 02:27 PM    (permalink
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Thats true but thats why i say trade back. And imagine 3 te-sets with Walker-Fleener-Davis thats really a huge problem for almost every defense and since we al know how Harbaugh likes to play the game where its all about bal-control a real deep threat isn't of the most important. And in my opninion guys like Williams and Ginn(is he resigns) can go deep altough both aren't going to draw double teams.
But if we trade back, Fleener wont be there by our 2nd round pick. I'd be shocked if he makes it past the Giants pick in the first.

The problem with running primarily a 3 TE set is it still compacts the field on passing plays. I mean you can't go 3 TEs on 3rd and 13. Well I mean you could but the problem is, most teams are going to play our 3-TE set with nickel coverage. The point of running that set is to catch teams in their "big" package.....which means your limited to what down and distance that you can run those type of things. Because you have to have the element that the defense doesn't know if its a run or pass....thats when that package comes in handy....2nd and 5, 2nd and short, 3rd and short. I just dont believe you can run 3 TE sets all the way down the field, and not run into problems. You need those deep curls or deep-ins run. And I dont think TEs can be as efficent with those routes, on the outside, as a WR could. A guy like Hill makes the middle of the field less compressed. He draws the FS off of focusing on VD. He allows Crabs to work underneath more, which I think can help move the chains. And most importantly, he is a big target with good ball skills, so if all else fails, you can throw it up and he and his "40 vertical can out-jump smaller CBs, when he's not running by them. A kid like that allows more options in terms how you approach 3rd down because you know a good DC is going to either role coverage to him or VD, or give one safety help.....so you can manipulate that to your own advatage in other areas of the field. Adding Fleener means your just putting another guy in the fold who works best from the middle, out towards the sideline. The only way that 3 TE could work is if one of those guys had WR ability, as far as route running and ball skills. VD isn't a natural pass-catcher. Walker has issues with drops and concentration lapses. Fleener probably is the more natural pass-catcher of the 3 but I dont know if he has thos Witten/Gates like qualities to split outside and manuveur against NFL caliber CBs like a possesion WR. Guys like Gates and Witten, are almost like WRs on 3rd downs because they're fluid route-runners and understand the nuiances of timing/anticipation when running deep and finding space in a zone. IMO, guys like Walker and VD aren't fluid pass-catchers. Plenty athletic but not as crafty with their positioning of their body, how to come out of routes , chop their steps and drive off a defender on their hip....things of that nature.

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Old 02-29-2012, 02:53 PM    (permalink
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Great post vafy-ya!

And with Byham, the team will still be able to run 3-TE sets. He is a very underrated receiver.

But the 3-TE set will only be attractive and successful if you can supplement that with a receiver that can stratch the fieldconsistently.
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Old 02-29-2012, 04:46 PM    (permalink
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But if we trade back, Fleener wont be there by our 2nd round pick. I'd be shocked if he makes it past the Giants pick in the first.

The problem with running primarily a 3 TE set is it still compacts the field on passing plays. I mean you can't go 3 TEs on 3rd and 13. Well I mean you could but the problem is, most teams are going to play our 3-TE set with nickel coverage. The point of running that set is to catch teams in their "big" package.....which means your limited to what down and distance that you can run those type of things. Because you have to have the element that the defense doesn't know if its a run or pass....thats when that package comes in handy....2nd and 5, 2nd and short, 3rd and short. I just dont believe you can run 3 TE sets all the way down the field, and not run into problems. You need those deep curls or deep-ins run. And I dont think TEs can be as efficent with those routes, on the outside, as a WR could. A guy like Hill makes the middle of the field less compressed. He draws the FS off of focusing on VD. He allows Crabs to work underneath more, which I think can help move the chains. And most importantly, he is a big target with good ball skills, so if all else fails, you can throw it up and he and his "40 vertical can out-jump smaller CBs, when he's not running by them. A kid like that allows more options in terms how you approach 3rd down because you know a good DC is going to either role coverage to him or VD, or give one safety help.....so you can manipulate that to your own advatage in other areas of the field. Adding Fleener means your just putting another guy in the fold who works best from the middle, out towards the sideline. The only way that 3 TE could work is if one of those guys had WR ability, as far as route running and ball skills. VD isn't a natural pass-catcher. Walker has issues with drops and concentration lapses. Fleener probably is the more natural pass-catcher of the 3 but I dont know if he has thos Witten/Gates like qualities to split outside and manuveur against NFL caliber CBs like a possesion WR. Guys like Gates and Witten, are almost like WRs on 3rd downs because they're fluid route-runners and understand the nuiances of timing/anticipation when running deep and finding space in a zone. IMO, guys like Walker and VD aren't fluid pass-catchers. Plenty athletic but not as crafty with their positioning of their body, how to come out of routes , chop their steps and drive off a defender on their hip....things of that nature.
Agree with you and i really think that if Hill is available on 30 we should make the call. He has de speed and physical atributes that i think Harbaugh and Baalke really like and even though he didnt have an amazing college-carreer(Guess most because of their playing style) he would be a guy that has a lot of upside. Its more that if he isn't available at 30 i would like to see us BPA(unless its a position that is really stacked with talent) or trade down some picks to pick up another second and a late pick. Fleener may not be the perfect guy but he is a guy that fits great in what we are doing i think so it may be personal preference.
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Old 03-01-2012, 05:46 PM    (permalink
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So How is offe season coming along guys?Did any Wide outs stand out in the combine ?The pro days have started , who are the 49ers looking at for big targets to get down field and have speed also good hands?Still two months away from the draft and FA around the corner.. Also wondering who we might target in FA for a Wide out or possible o line maybe defense as well?
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Old 03-02-2012, 12:41 PM    (permalink
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A prospect i really like is Arizona State corner Omar Bolden.



I've had the privilege to watch him in person over the last couple years at ASU and i think he is a special player. I thought he would be a 2nd round pick before he hurt his knee during spring practice. He also is a fantastic kick returner. It's no coincidence that Arizona State's defense fell apart without him this past year. He was their emotional leader.

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Old 03-02-2012, 04:05 PM    (permalink
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So How is offe season coming along guys?Did any Wide outs stand out in the combine ?The pro days have started , who are the 49ers looking at for big targets to get down field and have speed also good hands?Still two months away from the draft and FA around the corner.. Also wondering who we might target in FA for a Wide out or possible o line maybe defense as well?
Marvin Jones. We need to draft this guy.
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Old 03-03-2012, 03:04 AM    (permalink
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Is he fully healthy hawkeye? Will he be ready to workout by the ASU Pro Day?
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Old 03-03-2012, 02:14 PM    (permalink
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Is he fully healthy hawkeye? Will he be ready to workout by the ASU Pro Day?
Yes he said he was fully healthy at the combine, but still didn't run the 40 which is a concern. He said he'll definitely run on his pro day (March 16).

I think we could get him in 5th-6th round area.
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Old 03-03-2012, 04:20 PM    (permalink
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Yes he said he was fully healthy at the combine, but still didn't run the 40 which is a concern. He said he'll definitely run on his pro day (March 16).

I think we could get him in 5th-6th round area.
I still see him earlier than that. 3-4 or higher barring a bad medical.
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Old 03-03-2012, 04:29 PM    (permalink
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I had forgot him.....probably because he didnt play this year. So what happened to the knee? If it was a major injury and he still didnt run at the Combine, might drop him to a late rounder. Though Im sure he was there to go through the medical so teams could have full disclosure about the injury, if its something like Ray McDonald had, where it was known he had to have at least one or more procedures to it.
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Old 03-04-2012, 07:44 AM    (permalink
Madirishman
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Originally Posted by phlysac View Post
I still see him earlier than that. 3-4 or higher barring a bad medical.
Agree. A great potential value pick in the 4th if the knee checks out.
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Old 03-05-2012, 04:35 PM    (permalink
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I was thinking last year we saw the Niners take a lot of very athletically talented guys, yet very raw. Who are some of the guys this year that you guys feel fit that mold?

Here are some off the top of my head -

Stephen Hill
Tommy Streeter
Trumaine Johnson
Dontari Poe - probably won't be able to get him without a trade
Dre Kirkpatrick
Bruce Irvin
Coty Sensabaugh
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I dunno even half of those guys why did we sign them jeez.
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Old 03-06-2012, 12:30 PM    (permalink
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I would not be opposed at all to trading back and taking Stephen Hill in the early second. This would give us another mid round pick this year, or a high pick next year.

Even after his combine, I still don't see Hill going in the first. When Bruce Campbell destroyed the combine, everyone had him going to the Raiders in the first, but he ended up going a lot later in the draft. I'm not saying they're the same, but it is just an example of using the combine to dictate a player's stock.
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Old 03-06-2012, 02:39 PM    (permalink
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Poe is a guy, although not a position of need, just screams draft me. A guy that big, with that kind of strength, athletic ability are very rare. Nagta was the last guy of that caliber. Virtually impossible to get him where we are but he's a guy who you'd love to add to any defense. But especially to middle of our front, no question. He and Hill are my 1A and 1B draft crush.
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Old 03-06-2012, 03:47 PM    (permalink
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If we would pick Stephen Hill with the first i would be happy also. He is a good blocker(must be for that triple-option ****) and he has de size and speed we need. Its not only that he had a great combine its more that because of the offense he was in he had some things to prove and he could do that on the combine. He is raw but i am sure he will become a great player.
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