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Old 02-20-2012, 03:11 PM    (permalink
VAfy-ya
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I still say the likelihood of a team forking over a draft pick to sign Grant is slim to none. Now Im not sure of the ramifications under the new CBA and how a team is compensated but under the old one, RFAs didnt move very often. Its not beneficial for any team to not only take a cap hit signing a RFA, but to also lose a draft pick in the process. I think Grant is safe as a Niner for another year at least.
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Old 02-20-2012, 03:45 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VAfy-ya View Post
I agree but we have a solid back-up in RJF, who can play anywhere, along the line, as well as two young guys the staff obviously likes in Dobbs and Tukuafu. Just would not make sense to add a player to a area where we already have sure-fired established studs(J. Smith, Ray Mac), solid depth, and young talent.
I'd like to see how Dobbs and Ian Williams in particular develop. They're promising but didn't do much this year. Then again, guys like RJF and even Ray McDonald have taken years to develop but they've proven their worth to this team.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VAfy-ya View Post
I still say the likelihood of a team forking over a draft pick to sign Grant is slim to none. Now Im not sure of the ramifications under the new CBA and how a team is compensated but under the old one, RFAs didnt move very often. Its not beneficial for any team to not only take a cap hit signing a RFA, but to also lose a draft pick in the process. I think Grant is safe as a Niner for another year at least.
I'd like to put a 4th round tender on him. If a team matches, we get a solid midround pick to use on a position of need. If not, we have solid depth for at least 1 more year. Anything higher and i don't think teams will match...anything lower and its not worth it losing him.
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Old 02-20-2012, 05:03 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Menardo75 View Post
I really think Adam Carriker would be a solid signing to come in and compete. He has talent and I'm sure Tomsula could get the most out of him.
I'll take my chances with Dobbs and Francois.
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Old 02-20-2012, 05:23 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VAfy-ya
I still say the likelihood of a team forking over a draft pick to sign Grant is slim to none. Now Im not sure of the ramifications under the new CBA and how a team is compensated but under the old one, RFAs didnt move very often. Its not beneficial for any team to not only take a cap hit signing a RFA, but to also lose a draft pick in the process. I think Grant is safe as a Niner for another year at least.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 49ersfan_87
I'd like to put a 4th round tender on him. If a team matches, we get a solid midround pick to use on a position of need. If not, we have solid depth for at least 1 more year. Anything higher and i don't think teams will match...anything lower and its not worth it losing him.
Why would the team take a cap hit from a non-guaranteed contract with no signing bonus? And how would the team giving up a draft pick also take a cap hit when the player isnt under contract to the team giving up the draft pick?

I dont know what the tenders are but I would put a second rounder on Grant. He's more valuable than a 4th rounder. And I do think a team that runs the 3-4 will be willing to sign him to an offer sheet and for a second rounder, it would be as a starter and Grant would be gone. Rather keep him than get a 4th rounder.
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Old 02-20-2012, 05:34 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dan77733 View Post
Why would the team take a cap hit from a non-guaranteed contract with no signing bonus? And how would the team giving up a draft pick also take a cap hit when the player isnt under contract to the team giving up the draft pick?

I dont know what the tenders are but I would put a second rounder on Grant. He's more valuable than a 4th rounder. And I do think a team that runs the 3-4 will be willing to sign him to an offer sheet and for a second rounder, it would be as a starter and Grant would be gone. Rather keep him than get a 4th rounder.
If you signing any player to a deal, it hits your cap.....thats what I was referring to. So you sign Grant, and have to fork over a draft pick. And if your going to give up a draft pick for a guy, might as well sign him long term, so that means a even bigger hit to your cap. It would make no sense to bring Grant in and them give him a one year deal and lose your pick in the process.
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Old 02-20-2012, 05:38 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VAfy-ya View Post
If you signing any player to a deal, it hits your cap.....thats what I was referring to. So you sign Grant, and have to fork over a draft pick. And if your going to give up a draft pick for a guy, might as well sign him long term, so that means a even bigger hit to your cap. It would make no sense to bring Grant in and them give him a one year deal and lose your pick in the process.
I never said anything about a one year deal. Its usually a long term deal thats hard for the current team to match.

So, if DAL signs Grant to an offer sheet for four years and the 49ers dont match, the 49ers take a cap hit or the Cowboys?
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Old 02-20-2012, 07:03 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VAfy-ya View Post
I still say the likelihood of a team forking over a draft pick to sign Grant is slim to none. Now Im not sure of the ramifications under the new CBA and how a team is compensated but under the old one, RFAs didnt move very often. Its not beneficial for any team to not only take a cap hit signing a RFA, but to also lose a draft pick in the process. I think Grant is safe as a Niner for another year at least.
The new CBA actually makes it easier to sign RFAs because you can't put as high of a price tag (draft picks) on them anymore.
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Old 02-20-2012, 07:07 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by dan77733 View Post
I never said anything about a one year deal. Its usually a long term deal thats hard for the current team to match.

So, if DAL signs Grant to an offer sheet for four years and the 49ers dont match, the 49ers take a cap hit or the Cowboys?
The Niners would not receive a cap hit because he would not be under contract with the team, unless they decided to match the offer and sign him to the same contract.

If the Cowboys DO sign him, the Niners would receive a draft pick according to what level they tendered him.
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Old 02-20-2012, 07:57 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dan77733 View Post
I never said anything about a one year deal. Its usually a long term deal thats hard for the current team to match.

So, if DAL signs Grant to an offer sheet for four years and the 49ers dont match, the 49ers take a cap hit or the Cowboys?
No, no, no.......I was talking about the team that signs him.
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Old 02-21-2012, 06:10 PM    (permalink
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Barrows on getting Wallace

Quote:
Wallace was a third-round pick in 2009. This year's draft, meanwhile, is deep
with wide receivers.GM Trent Baalke is bursting with
confidence after his 2011 draft, and my guess is that the 49ers would rather
keep all of their picks and select the next Mike Wallace.
Going after
Wallace makes more sense for the Patriots or Ravens or even the Bengals because
they'd also be maligning a dangerous conference and/or division opponent. The
49ers don't have that extra incentive.
http://blogs.sacbee.com/49ers/archiv...e-wallace.html

Any rookie WR's that fit that Mike Wallace mold?

Read more here: http://blogs.sacbee.com/49ers/archiv.../02/should-the

-49ers-go-after-wr-mike-wallace.html#storylink=cpy
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Old 02-21-2012, 06:38 PM    (permalink
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Difference is that no WR at 30 will start and make an impact like Wallace would. Also, if you look at our free agents for 2013 on ninercaphell.com, I would say that we have a two year window before the majority of our core is gone. To me, Wallace is worth the risk. After all, if a player like Colston, Bowe and Vincent Jackson who are at least three or more years older are worth the risk of a long term contact then so is Wallace. And im hoping that we tender Grant at the second round level. A 4th would be so damn crappy because you just know if that happens, he'll be a steal for the team that gets him.
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Old 02-21-2012, 06:39 PM    (permalink
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Dan is your real name actually Mike Wallace. All your posts are about how good he is and how we need him.
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Old 02-24-2012, 12:46 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 49ersfan_87 View Post
Barrows on getting Wallace



http://blogs.sacbee.com/49ers/archiv...e-wallace.html

Any rookie WR's that fit that Mike Wallace mold?

Read more here: http://blogs.sacbee.com/49ers/archiv.../02/should-the

-49ers-go-after-wr-mike-wallace.html#storylink=cpy
Sure are....my personal favorite is Joe Adams. Also like Devon Wylie alot. There are a bunch of guys who can bring that vertical element to our offense. Jarius Wright, Travis Benjamin, Kashif Moore, Chris Rainey, TJ Graham, just to name a few.
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Old 02-24-2012, 03:35 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 49ersfan_87 View Post
Barrows on getting Wallace



http://blogs.sacbee.com/49ers/archiv...e-wallace.html

Any rookie WR's that fit that Mike Wallace mold?

Read more here: http://blogs.sacbee.com/49ers/archiv.../02/should-the

-49ers-go-after-wr-mike-wallace.html#storylink=cpy
This part summed it up for me:

Quote:
In the end, the 49ers would not only give up the first-round pick but also some of the cap space earmarked for free agents. Wallace is good. But is he better than two players -- say Pierre Garcon and Mohamed Sanu, or perhaps Janoris Jenkins and Vincent Jackson or Rueben Randle and Marques Colston -- the 49ers could add this offseason?
I'd rather have us go after another big name, one who we wouldn't have to give up two draft picks for, and then draft a promising receiver in the early rounds. That would be a more satisfying scenario in my opinion.
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Old 02-24-2012, 03:56 PM    (permalink
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You don't use free agency in place of the draft if you want long-term success and that is what giving up a late first in addition to paying top dollar for a guy like Wallace represents.

Maybe once in a blue moon a quarterback comes available that may make this a good move. It would be a pretty rare player at any other position that should ever tempt a gm to make this type of move.

A guy like Vincent Jackson could be what is needed to open things up for Vernon over the middle, provide a big redzone target and pull a guy out of the box to let Gore operate. He seems to have put his issues behind him...

Finding a way to get Fleener without taking him at 30 would be a bonus.
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Old 02-24-2012, 07:25 PM    (permalink
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This Wr class is so deep it's ridiculous. Part of me really hopes Baalke trades our 30th pick for more picks in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. That's where the real value is going to be at (Criner, D.Jones, Streeter, Hill, McNutt) in this draft.
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Old 02-24-2012, 07:30 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ness View Post
This part summed it up for me:

In the end, the 49ers would not only give up the first-round pick but also some of the cap space earmarked for free agents. Wallace is good. But is he better than two players -- say Pierre Garcon and Mohamed Sanu, or perhaps Janoris Jenkins and Vincent Jackson or Rueben Randle and Marques Colston -- the 49ers could add this offseason?

I'd rather have us go after another big name, one who we wouldn't have to give up two draft picks for, and then draft a promising receiver in the early rounds. That would be a more satisfying scenario in my opinion.
First, how are we giving up two draft picks for Wallace? As an RFA, only a first round draft pick would be required. Second, none of those rookies are going to have the impact that Wallace would have. And you guys are the ones who always say that it takes three years for a WR to fully develop. Do you really want to wait three years? I dont. Garcon isnt a number one receiver, he's a solid number two receiver. I think that Jackson will be franchised and even if he's not, him and Colston are going to want at least $10m a season and neither one are worth that much because of their age. To me, it makes a lot more sense to pay Wallace instead of those three guys and sorry, another average WR isnt going to do anything to help us. Plus, if HarBaalke were smart, they would let Rogers walk, sign a veteran DB like Jason Allen to replace him and then go after Wallace which at 5 years younger is worth the money over Rogers. Third, you say another big name but yet every top tier FA WR is going demand around the same amount of money and if its within a $2m or so difference, I rather trade for Wallace because you can sign him to a five year deal and he's young enough with more potential and upside than any of those 28+ year old receivers are.

Promising receiver? We have one - Kyle Williams. He's promising and better in the slot. We need a playmaker. And if the Cardinals sign Manning and Wayne, we're going to need a playmaking WR, not some rookie who's not going to help us now.
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Old 02-24-2012, 09:01 PM    (permalink
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First, how are we giving up two draft picks for Wallace? As an RFA, only a first round draft pick would be required. Second, none of those rookies are going to have the impact that Wallace would have. And you guys are the ones who always say that it takes three years for a WR to fully develop. Do you really want to wait three years? I dont. Garcon isnt a number one receiver, he's a solid number two receiver. I think that Jackson will be franchised and even if he's not, him and Colston are going to want at least $10m a season and neither one are worth that much because of their age. To me, it makes a lot more sense to pay Wallace instead of those three guys and sorry, another average WR isnt going to do anything to help us. Plus, if HarBaalke were smart, they would let Rogers walk, sign a veteran DB like Jason Allen to replace him and then go after Wallace which at 5 years younger is worth the money over Rogers. Third, you say another big name but yet every top tier FA WR is going demand around the same amount of money and if its within a $2m or so difference, I rather trade for Wallace because you can sign him to a five year deal and he's young enough with more potential and upside than any of those 28+ year old receivers are.

Promising receiver? We have one - Kyle Williams. He's promising and better in the slot. We need a playmaker. And if the Cardinals sign Manning and Wayne, we're going to need a playmaking WR, not some rookie who's not going to help us now.
Jackson is going to be a free agent. If he is franchised it counts 15 mil against the cap there is no way they do that.
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I dunno even half of those guys why did we sign them jeez.
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Old 02-24-2012, 09:13 PM    (permalink
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Sure are....my personal favorite is Joe Adams. Also like Devon Wylie alot. There are a bunch of guys who can bring that vertical element to our offense. Jarius Wright, Travis Benjamin, Kashif Moore, Chris Rainey, TJ Graham, just to name a few.
I don't know about the fit for Devon Wiley in SF. I've seen him play more than any other player in this draft. I've come to appreciate what he brings to the table. But he's more of a Julian Edelman type of player. Small but quick. He would be a KR on the 9ers and would probably be a very good one though. But I think he's a little redundant to what we already have in Kyle Williams.
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Old 02-25-2012, 01:00 AM    (permalink
edgrenade
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If you take a look at last years draft as a blueprint for this year, you see that Baalke selected guys that were "raw" or were going to take time to develop; such as Aldon, Kaep, and Culliver.

So going by that philosophy, from a WR standpoint, I see him targeting guys like Hill and Streeter.

Another thing is that NO ONE predicted us taking Aldon, so that has me thinking we go elsewhere in the 1st round.
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Old 02-25-2012, 04:24 AM    (permalink
VAfy-ya
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If you take a look at last years draft as a blueprint for this year, you see that Baalke selected guys that were "raw" or were going to take time to develop; such as Aldon, Kaep, and Culliver.

So going by that philosophy, from a WR standpoint, I see him targeting guys like Hill and Streeter.

Another thing is that NO ONE predicted us taking Aldon, so that has me thinking we go elsewhere in the 1st round.
Well most had us taking a pass-rusher early in the process. It wasn't neceassrily the fact it was a pass-rusher but who it was, especially with Robert Quinn still on the board. Before Von Miller stock soared after the Combine, most had us taking him. And who knows what would have happen had Peterson had fallen to us. Hindsight is always 20/20 but most really wanted Peterson had he been there.

So I wouldnt be surprise to see a WR@30. What might surprise ppl is just who that WR is. I believe Baalke likes potential in players with certain athletic qualities he covets. Some may see them as a project but Baalke sees something right away that they can bring to the table. Remember that scouts worked out Bruce Miller at his Pro Day. And Cully out came out to team headquarters and did some drill work with Fangio. We're also doing the legwork for Baalke to base these decisions off of, let's not forget that. So I wouldn't say he's more interested in guys like Hill or Streeter. For all we know, he may hate those guys for whatever reason.
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Old 02-25-2012, 12:21 PM    (permalink
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Didn't think Egnew was going to measure in at 6'5" and a bit. I wouldn't mind him, but his numbers should help keep Fleener available for us. Some of these tight ends are flying today.

*I might have Egnew confused with someone else. A little behind again this year.

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Old 02-25-2012, 02:07 PM    (permalink
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Default Official 49ers 2012 NFL Draft Thread

I have a DeCastro boner.
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Old 02-25-2012, 02:19 PM    (permalink
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You don't use free agency in place of the draft if you want long-term success and that is what giving up a late first in addition to paying top dollar for a guy like Wallace represents.

Maybe once in a blue moon a quarterback comes available that may make this a good move. It would be a pretty rare player at any other position that should ever tempt a gm to make this type of move.

A guy like Vincent Jackson could be what is needed to open things up for Vernon over the middle, provide a big redzone target and pull a guy out of the box to let Gore operate. He seems to have put his issues behind him...

Finding a way to get Fleener without taking him at 30 would be a bonus.
The only FA i want to break the bank for is Mario Williams. How often do guys like him come around? But that would mean we definitely didn't re-sign Brooks and probably didn't re-sign Rogers either. Other than that i hope we keep the same philosophy as last year, except maybe have a few more multi-year deals instead of 1 year deals.
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Old 02-25-2012, 02:51 PM    (permalink
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I have a DeCastro boner.
Hmmmm, too much info there Borat. LOL.

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The only FA i want to break the bank for is Mario Williams. How often do guys like him come around? But that would mean we definitely didn't re-sign Brooks and probably didn't re-sign Rogers either. Other than that i hope we keep the same philosophy as last year, except maybe have a few more multi-year deals instead of 1 year deals.
I still think that Williams will be signing with a 4-3 base defense team. Falcons anyone? Just a guess.
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