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Old 02-28-2012, 05:25 AM    (permalink
descendency
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Default Would You Give Up the 2013 #1 pick for RG3?

The rumor is that Washington wants that #2 pick really bad. So bad, that they're offering a 2012 1st (4 spots lower than the Rams are selecting now), 2nd, and 3rd as well as a 2013 1st. That 2013 #1 could be a very very high pick...

I really like RG3, but Washington's offense is terrible. Their line is bad. Their receivers are bad. Their running game is bad. Their defense isn't much better (especially the secondary).

After Cam Newton, a lot of people will think RG3 can step right in and win a Super Bowl, but the Panthers had more to their team than Washington does. He's going to take time to develop and could have a very Peyton Manning-esque rookie year.

They will play in one of the best divisions. Tell me Washington isn't nuts for trading all of that for RG3?
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Old 02-28-2012, 05:48 AM    (permalink
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Obviously if Washington make the trade they are banking on the first being a lot lower than first overall, plus they are hoping RG3 will be their long term franchsie QB. It's hard to quantify what would be overpaying for a guy you can hitch your wagon to for 10+ years.

That being said if the choice was 2012 1st, 2nd and 3rd plus the #1 overall pick in 2013 I wouldn't personally. You are using two picks on what should be elite prospects and two picks on what should be at the very least good starters.

For arguements sake they could potentially get

Morris Claiborne
Mohammed Sanu
Ben Jones
Matt Barkley

If they think RG3 is more valuable than all 4 of those guys then they would be silly not to do it, but it is a very hard sell to say that he would be better than those 4 combined
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Old 02-28-2012, 05:50 AM    (permalink
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The thing is when you do all that it hurts your team and the player you Trade up for. I Love RGIII but like you said they expect him to Win Games and go to the Playoffs right now but in trading for him you are taking away guys that can help him get better. I think Washington has better Talent right now than Cleveland, even if RGIII turns out to be a Franchise QB for them I don't see them winning the the NFC East or going to the playoffs every year.
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Old 02-28-2012, 06:09 AM    (permalink
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My concern wouldn't be making the playoffs. It'd be giving up a 6th overall pick and a 1st overall pick, plus two other quality picks for 1 player.

As already mentioned, it's hard to not envision where Matt Barkley (or whomever is the #1 QB next year) + Mo Claiborne + Mohammed Sanu + Ben Jones > Robert Griffin III.

Then again, if you draft the first 3 guys (Claiborne, Sanu, and Jones), you probably won't be drafting #1 overall next year, so getting a guy like Barkley may not be an option.
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Old 02-28-2012, 06:17 AM    (permalink
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The Panthers had more to their team than Washington does

Hindsight is 20/20, many didn't feel that way about the Panthers last year (and don't about the Colts this year, but if they play well, people will forget that).

The Redskins defense was 13th in yards per game and offense was 15th in yards per game. Not great, but not awful. They gave up points and didn't score point consistently, but with how bad the QB play was, I think they can redeem themselves with better QB play. They aren't THAT far off. If the O-line can stay healthy, they actually are solid, defense has some good players, and they have a nice young RB. I think it is worth it.
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Old 02-28-2012, 06:27 AM    (permalink
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My concern wouldn't be making the playoffs. It'd be giving up a 6th overall pick and a 1st overall pick, plus two other quality picks for 1 player.

As already mentioned, it's hard to not envision where Matt Barkley (or whomever is the #1 QB next year) + Mo Claiborne + Mohammed Sanu + Ben Jones > Robert Griffin III.

Then again, if you draft the first 3 guys (Claiborne, Sanu, and Jones), you probably won't be drafting #1 overall next year, so getting a guy like Barkley may not be an option.
Yeah if they think their 2013 pick will be first overall they won't make the trade IMO. Overall though they will expect the pick to be no lower than about 12
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Old 02-28-2012, 06:55 AM    (permalink
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Hindsight is 20/20, many didn't feel that way about the Panthers last year (and don't about the Colts this year, but if they play well, people will forget that).

The Redskins defense was 13th in yards per game and offense was 15th in yards per game. Not great, but not awful. They gave up points and didn't score point consistently, but with how bad the QB play was, I think they can redeem themselves with better QB play. They aren't THAT far off. If the O-line can stay healthy, they actually are solid, defense has some good players, and they have a nice young RB. I think it is worth it.
Exactly, this team isn't as bad as some people are thinking. We were lauded with horrible quarterback play throughout the season. If the Skins can add someone like V Jax or Colston along with an Eddie Royal they could really have a potent offense with RG3.

On defense the pieces are there in the front 7 especially with Jarvis Jenkins coming back after missing his rookie season. Secondary could definitely use some help but this is the Redskins best chance to get a franchise QB in a long time. Doubt they end up with the #1 pick in 2013.
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Old 02-28-2012, 07:06 AM    (permalink
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I'd easily give up more than a 2013 first if i needed to. I don't see much of a gap personally between Luck and RG3 and you don't know when you will have the opportunity again to bring in a franchise prospect of that caliber. I don't think Barkley is on RG3 and Lucks level nor do I think he is as perfect a fit in Shanahans offense let alone the thought that there are 31 other teams and theres no way to say you won't have to trade up again next year for a top QB. If you can do it, you need to do it.
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Old 02-28-2012, 07:24 AM    (permalink
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Yup, because they don't have a franchise QB and they need one. If they believe RG3 is that guy then they should get him. I also don't believe by any stretch it will be worth the number 1 overall next year, and even if they are still terrible next year, getting the actual number 1 pick requires luck as well. Some other team could be just as terrible. They could miss out on a franchise QB again and theyd be right where they are.
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Old 02-28-2012, 07:32 AM    (permalink
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I'd easily give up more than a 2013 first if i needed to. I don't see much of a gap personally between Luck and RG3 and you don't know when you will have the opportunity again to bring in a franchise prospect of that caliber. I don't think Barkley is on RG3 and Lucks level nor do I think he is as perfect a fit in Shanahans offense let alone the thought that there are 31 other teams and theres no way to say you won't have to trade up again next year for a top QB. If you can do it, you need to do it.
I'm really talking about all of the picks they might have to give up. Yeah, there is a really good argument to be made for RG3 in Washington.

I do think it's a fairly good point that that Washington hasn't even had decent QB play, so RG3 might be better than them anyways.

As far as whom will get the #1 overall pick next year; it really depends on whom has the worst luck with injuries and whatnot. Washington has to be on that list.
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Old 02-28-2012, 07:37 AM    (permalink
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I'm really talking about all of the picks they might have to give up. Yeah, there is a really good argument to be made for RG3 in Washington.

I do think it's a fairly good point that that Washington hasn't even had decent QB play, so RG3 might be better than them anyways.

As far as whom will get the #1 overall pick next year; it really depends on whom has the worst luck with injuries and whatnot. Washington has to be on that list.
Decent is an understatement...Over the last 10 years the Redskins starting QBs have been: Grossman, Beck, Aged McNabb, Campbell, Brunell, Ramsey, Shane Mathews, Tony Banks, and Brad Johnson. I can't help but think RG3 would in his first year be better than everyone on that damn list. We may have to give up some picks to get him but we also happen to have some of the most cap space in the entire league that could be used to bring in young talent as well where needed.
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Old 02-28-2012, 07:55 AM    (permalink
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Redskins are not gonna win that divison without better QB play and RG3 will be long gone by the time they pick. So they should trade up for him assuming they dont have a similar grade on the 3rd ranked QB.
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Old 02-28-2012, 08:37 AM    (permalink
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As a rule, I don't like trading future first round picks for players who are unproven at the NFL level. So I wouldn't do it.
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Old 02-28-2012, 09:01 AM    (permalink
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They will play in one of the best divisions. Tell me Washington isn't nuts for trading all of that for RG3?
They're not nuts. Normally I'd be opposed to spending that amount of picks on a player, but RGIII is special. Redskins may not have the best receivers, but they have a very talented defense, a promising running game, a left tackle and two pretty damn good TEs. With better play from their QB they could be competing for the division, especially if they use some of their cap space on one or more receivers in FA. Reggie Wayne could help a new QB in the league and a guy like Colston could come in and make a difference as well if he stays healthy.
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Old 02-28-2012, 09:06 AM    (permalink
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In a word, yes. I love RG3.
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Old 02-28-2012, 09:10 AM    (permalink
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reading Prisco's article on Case Keenum yesterday (yeah I know), here's a question... Case Keenum quoted as saying no one says RG3 is a system QB but he is considered one? I think it's a valid question. NO one's really concerned about Rg3's production in that run and shoot spread system?
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Old 02-28-2012, 09:14 AM    (permalink
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I'd do it. They have a solid base to their D, and can pick up a FA WR. Gotta do it. Otherwise, you're winning 4-6 games next year and selecting Matt Barkley. Go get the difference maker.
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Old 02-28-2012, 11:25 AM    (permalink
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reading Prisco's article on Case Keenum yesterday (yeah I know), here's a question... Case Keenum quoted as saying no one says RG3 is a system QB but he is considered one? I think it's a valid question. NO one's really concerned about Rg3's production in that run and shoot spread system?
They see the easy opposite hash to sideline throw, and understand that the system is not structured to hide a weak arm, like, for example, Sothern Cal.

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Old 02-28-2012, 11:54 AM    (permalink
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They see the easy opposite hash to sideline throw, and understand that the system is not structured to hide a weak arm, like, for example, Southern Cal.
Yeah, the criticism "system QB" is "that guy only succeeded because of the system he played in" not "that guy played in an offense that is unlike NFL offense."

You really can't expect college players these days to play in anything resembling an NFL offense, particularly quarterbacks.
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Old 02-28-2012, 12:00 PM    (permalink
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there is definitely a difference between a marginally talented QB being great in a system that it's easy to be great in, and an incredibly talented QB being great in a system that it's easy to be great in. Be able to make all (or at least most) of the throws first, then we'll talk.
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Old 02-28-2012, 12:16 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 703SKINS202 View Post
Exactly, this team isn't as bad as some people are thinking. We were lauded with horrible quarterback play throughout the season. If the Skins can add someone like V Jax or Colston along with an Eddie Royal they could really have a potent offense with RG3.

On defense the pieces are there in the front 7 especially with Jarvis Jenkins coming back after missing his rookie season. Secondary could definitely use some help but this is the Redskins best chance to get a franchise QB in a long time. Doubt they end up with the #1 pick in 2013.
I think the FA point is the really important one. Adding VJax gives a kid like RGIII a proven target and also takes a ton of pressure off Davis/Cooley and the developing WRs. (I still believe, Hank!) Draft picks are not locks, so giving up some extra ones is ok if you're convinced you get the franchise QB.

Let's not forget, as well, that they're not winning a ton of games with the previously mentioned Claiborne / Sanu / Jones combo if they can't land a true stud at QB next year. RGIII is just perfect for what Shanny wants in a QB, so that has to be considered as a huge plus in favor of making a huge trade.

FWIW - I think that price tag is never going to happen, anyway.
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Old 02-28-2012, 12:19 PM    (permalink
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Don't teams usally trade 2 1st round picks when trading up for the top 2-3 picks?
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Old 02-28-2012, 12:27 PM    (permalink
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Back in 04 the NY Gmen gave up two 1st's a 3rd and a 5th to move up from 4 to 1. Worked out well for them... If you think that RG3 is the guy... go get your guy... at any price.
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Old 02-28-2012, 12:40 PM    (permalink
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They also had some decent talent on that team already. Tiki, Shockey, Amani Toomer, and Ike Hilliard. That's not too shabby.
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Old 02-28-2012, 01:05 PM    (permalink
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If we are "so bad" like the OP thinks then how in the hell did we sweep the Giants & almost beat the Patriots......yeah football is weird.
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