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Old 03-02-2012, 03:12 PM    (permalink
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I think we all echo your sentiments on playing physical defense BBD, and how pussified the game has become, but there's a major difference from:

Make a good hit, get paid. If someone gets hurt, oh well. And hurt someone-get paid. If causing injury was the main objective, you can be sure as **** the play wasn't always legal.
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Old 03-02-2012, 03:13 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
Again. Show me where in this statement does it say that they are rewarded for making illegal hits.

There's nothing wrong with hitting someone clean that results in them leaving the game. That's good physical defense. If you come up the middle, and I light up your rib cage the second you catch the ball and you leave the game as a result, that's not a dirty play. That's a good physical play.

Greg didn't openly reward players for hitting guys late, hitting them in the head, hitting them after the whistle.

He rewarded them for good clean hits that resulted in injuries. There's nothing wrong with that. That's good physical defense.
Agree with the defense making good hits, but as we all know the league is going to come down hard on this to make it appear like they care about the safety of its players.
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Old 03-02-2012, 03:15 PM    (permalink
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A safe prediction: Saints will be disciplined far worse than the Patriots were for Spygate.

Per Adam Schefter.
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Old 03-02-2012, 03:19 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by fear the elf View Post
You're making an awful lot of assumptions. If there are payouts for when opposing players leave the field injured, you are encouraging your players to push the boundaries of legal, if not totally encouraging them to cross that line.
I don't have a problem with that. Teams push the limits of rules all the time. Rex Ryan encourages his team to violate illegal contact rules bc he knows refs won't throw the flag every play, so you can get away with it more often than not.

That's pushing the rules.

Teams fake injuries to slow down no huddle offenses (The Giants). That's pushing the rules.

Ryan Clark openly stated this season that he was encouraged for putting a hit on a guy that resulted in a concussion. Where is the outrage over that?

This is done all over the league, and rules are pushed to the limit in every capacity.

I have no problem with a coach pushing his players and giving them incentive to be physical. Especially in today's NFL that's geared towards offense.


Again, if we can come up with evidence where players were rewarded for dishing out illegal hits, then I have a problem with it. But as long as they're being rewarded for taking guys out within the rules, then there's nothing wrong with that. I would encourage it too.

You can't put a leash on defenders. They have to play loose and aggressively, or else they're just out there. Greg is trying to keep his defense aggressive in an era that will fine them up the ass.

How many times have we seen ridiculous flags in the offense's favor this year? You can't have it both ways. If you want physical football, then accept the dirty secrets of the NFL that comes with it. If you want finesse football, then accept the ridiculous flags and rules we see today.

But you can't have it both ways. There has been far worse that goes on in this league than this.

We have had players openly state this year to the media that they will purposely go after an injured player's injury. How is that any different?

Football is a physical game. You can't take away the aggression of it and except it to be the same sport.

It's like asking a boxer to box, "but don't try to hurt the guy"

Come on, what a joke.
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Old 03-02-2012, 03:21 PM    (permalink
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Completely ignoring the player safety issue:

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The NFL has a longstanding rule prohibiting "non-contract bonuses," and they violate both the league constitution and bylaws and the Collective Bargaining Agreement with the players' union.
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Old 03-02-2012, 03:23 PM    (permalink
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You stay classy New Orleans.
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Old 03-02-2012, 03:23 PM    (permalink
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I agree with BBD:

If you want guys to come back to hitting instead of pulling their hits because they are afraid to get fined then you create some type of competition that they can get rewarded for big hits. So some of those hits are now in the rules as "illegal".

I'm not saying go after a guys head or anything but you have to show some of these defensive players that big hits can injure guys and still be legal hits.

If it comes out that these guys were getting paid for illegal hits then sure by all means penalize them. If they were being taught how to injure someone within the rules of the game well that is as much a part of the game as cut blocking by the offense.

I guarantee a lot more teams do this but the saints got caught, bad news for them but overall shouldn't have been a big deal.
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Old 03-02-2012, 03:25 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Go Cowboys View Post
I agree with BBD:

If you want guys to come back to hitting instead of pulling their hits because they are afraid to get fined then you create some type of competition that they can get rewarded for big hits. So some of those hits are now in the rules as "illegal".

I'm not saying go after a guys head or anything but you have to show some of these defensive players that big hits can injure guys and still be legal hits.

If it comes out that these guys were getting paid for illegal hits then sure by all means penalize them. If they were being taught how to injure someone within the rules of the game well that is as much a part of the game as cut blocking by the offense.

I guarantee a lot more teams do this but the saints got caught, bad news for them but overall shouldn't have been a big deal.
Thank you. This is basically sums up my opinion.
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Old 03-02-2012, 03:26 PM    (permalink
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Rewarding a player financially for a "big hit" is perfectly fine, and I am sure everyone would agree. Rewarding players financially for injuring players is not. If you make a clean hit, and the player gets hurt, that is, and certainly always should, be part of the game. Telling players that if they injure the other teams players they will be given $ is something Greg Williams, and the rest of the Saints organization, should be penalized for.
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Old 03-02-2012, 03:27 PM    (permalink
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This punishment has to set the bar for this so a 2nd this year and 1st next year would make a team not want to do it.
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Old 03-02-2012, 03:29 PM    (permalink
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Our defense hit people?
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Old 03-02-2012, 03:30 PM    (permalink
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A safe prediction: Saints will be disciplined far worse than the Patriots were for Spygate.

Per Adam Schefter.
That is kind of stupid.
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Old 03-02-2012, 03:32 PM    (permalink
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Anyone here old enough to remember the body bag game?

If that happened in today's league, it would be outrage. It just goes to show you how much the league has changed.

I miss the old physical style of the league. I blame Bill Polian for this nonsense.
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Old 03-02-2012, 03:34 PM    (permalink
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I told you guys the Saints were dirty

BBD, you're wrong here. There is a line and the Saints defense crossed it. Look at the UFC. Guys get injured doing that, sometimes seriously. But there is a level of respect and sportsmanship. When the bell sounds for the end of a round the guys stop fighting. I think one guy didn't stop wailing on his opponent after the bell once and was thrown out of the company

The thing that matters in the league is respect. Good players, physical/controversial ones included, are respected. Hell, Ray Lewis is probably the most respected player in the league. No one respected the Saints defense
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Old 03-02-2012, 03:37 PM    (permalink
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I told you guys the Saints were dirty

BBD, you're wrong here. There is a line and the Saints defense crossed it. Look at the UFC. Guys get injured doing that, sometimes seriously. But there is a level of respect and sportsmanship. When the bell sounds for the end of a round the guys stop fighting. I think one guy didn't stop wailing on his opponent after the bell once and was thrown out of the company

The thing that matters in the league is respect. Good players, physical/controversial ones included, are respected. Hell, Ray Lewis is probably the most respected player in the league. No one respected the Saints defense
You know this how?

Besides them being sucky(I know not a word) this year.
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Old 03-02-2012, 03:38 PM    (permalink
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Gregg Williams, new NFL Blitz coverboy amirite?

The objective in boxing is to injure someone, literally. Concussion = win. Hurt so bad they don't leave their corner = win. Face so mauled up that the ref can't let them continue = win.

Football is about advancing a ball through physical force where injury is a consequence not encouraged. Terrible analogy.

IF Williams was literally encouraging his players to injure other players by giving them money (illegally according to the CBA btw) then the hammer will/should be dropped hard as ****. It's one thing to encourage big hits but if it was like "good job, that guy's knee is shredded here's 1500" then **** you Gregg Romanowski.
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Old 03-02-2012, 03:39 PM    (permalink
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Im not entirely sure on how to feel about this. I mean its a little more extreme with paying per injuries which i dont agree with but like how many guys in high school got rewards for just lighting a guy up in the game. I mean we would get presented Crunch candy bars for just blowing up a guy on punt returns to get guys more excited and ready to hit on special teams. Is this really any different and no one had a problem with us doing that ever.
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Old 03-02-2012, 03:40 PM    (permalink
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The Saints should pay Donte Whitner for knocking Pierre Thomas the **** out.
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Old 03-02-2012, 03:40 PM    (permalink
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But yeah, assumption city until details are reported.
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Old 03-02-2012, 03:40 PM    (permalink
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Not sure if it has been mentioned, but Adam Shefter tweeted that he believes the Saints will be penalized worse than the Pats were for Spygate.
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Old 03-02-2012, 03:42 PM    (permalink
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The reason I think that this is being blown up so much is because of the league's emphasis on safety in recent years. 10 years ago? Meh. Slap on the wrist, maybe fine a guy or two. Move on.

Now, with the league embroiled in law suits due to long term injuries to former players and trying get their efforts to prevent injury taken seriously by the powers that be outside of football, this is MUCH bigger deal.

The league is going to make the Saints pay for this and use them as an example for all other teams.
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Old 03-02-2012, 03:42 PM    (permalink
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If Greg Williams get suspended for like a year or w/e, does that mean my man Chuck Cecil will be the Rams DC?
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Old 03-02-2012, 03:42 PM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
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bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
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Trying to hurt your opponent is part of football.

When a power back trucks a defender, you think he wasn't trying to hurt the guy? When a safety lights up a WR coming up the middle, you don't think he was trying to hurt him?

When a DE blindside sacks a qb, you don't think he was trying to hurt him?

It's football guys. This is what they do. It's encouraged in every single locker room. If you take a guy out in a clean manner, it's a good football play.

When a Guard pancakes a LB, that's a good play. You don't think he was trying to take him out? Of course he was!

"Keep your head on a swivel." How many times have we heard that saying? Players like dishing out punishment. On both sides. It's what they do. They're football players.

You think when the Steelers play the Ravens, that they're not trying to rip each other's heads off?

If we don't want this to happen, then just put flags on them and get it over with. We're headed towards that path anyway.
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Old 03-02-2012, 03:44 PM    (permalink
regoob2
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
Trying to hurt your opponent is part of football.

When a power back trucks a defender, you think he wasn't trying to hurt the guy? When a safety lights up a WR coming up the middle, you don't think he was trying to hurt him?

When a DE blindside sacks a qb, you don't think he was trying to hurt him?

It's football guys. This is what they do. It's encouraged in every single locker room. If you take a guy out in a clean manner, it's a good football play.

When a Guard pancakes a LB, that's a good play. You don't think he was trying to take him out? Of course he was!

"Keep your head on a swivel." How many times have we heard that saying? Players like dishing out punishment. On both sides. It's what they do. They're football players.

You think when the Steelers play the Ravens, that they're not trying to rip each other's heads off?

If we don't want this to happen, then just put flags on them and get it over with. We're headed towards that path anyway.
This is about intent to injure. They're paying you to injure people. What was the payout for paralyzing someone?
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Old 03-02-2012, 03:49 PM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
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This is about intent to injure. They're paying you to injure people. What was the payout for paralyzing someone?
Wrong. We're taking one statement and turning it into the whole story. They got paid for fumbles, interceptions, as well as plays that resulted in the player leaving the field. Those are all good football plays as long as they are within the rules.

He rewarded his defense for making good football plays. Taking a player out is part of that equation. It's a part of defense.

If a defender takes out the starting qb on the first play with a good clean hit, you better believe he's getting rewarded for it. Not just in the Saints locker room. In EVERY locker room.

It's not like they had an ACL money jar. They were rewarded for making good football plays and dishing out a physical hit was part of that.
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