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Old 03-10-2012, 01:11 PM    (permalink
crossroads
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Originally Posted by Iamcanadian View Post
Dallas Clark had an injury, if he's recovered, he's an All Pro TE. Then there is Reggie Wayne, Garcon, Diem, Anthony Gonzalea(coming off an injury), Joseph Addai, a productive RB, Jeff Saturday, all Pro OC,

When you cut 15 staters some of which were all pros, you lose not only starters but leadership to show the younger players how to play the game.

This is far wose than what Tampa Bay did a few years ago, this is cutting practically everybody. This is a complete dump of which I have never seen before. It is unprecedented.
The only loses on that list that they'll actually feel are Wayne, Garcon, and probably Diem and Saturday. But Saturday's 37, he can't and won't play forever, and this will give them a chance to see what Mike Pollak can do. And yeah, losing Wayne will suck, but he's going to get overpaid by someone so Indy's likely dodging a bullet on that one. Garcon, if he doesn't come back will probably be the biggest loss. Thankfully, as others have pointed out in the thread, this upcoming draft is loaded with WR's, so they should have a decent shot at replacing him.

And did you really list Anthony Gonzalez and the 5 catches he has over the last 3 years as a loss?
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Old 03-10-2012, 01:17 PM    (permalink
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I'm a Colts fan and I love most of these players, but it is just what has to happen.
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Bill Polian is cancer wrapped in AIDS delivered in an XXL enema so please don't expect me to disagree with you.
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Old 03-10-2012, 01:22 PM    (permalink
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I think if anything this just highlights how piss poor of a job Polian had done as a GM the last few years that they have such poor quality depth behind all these 30+ year olds that they're either cutting or letting walk.
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Old 03-10-2012, 01:23 PM    (permalink
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I think if anything this just highlights how piss poor of a job Polian had done as a GM the last few years that they have such poor quality depth behind all these 30+ year olds that they're either cutting or letting walk.
Agreed x 10.
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Old 03-10-2012, 01:34 PM    (permalink
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They're cutting most of the starters from a 2-14 team. Oh no. Those guys all had a chance to keep their job this past season, and then we realized that most of them were only employed because of Peyton.
This.

Some Colts fans are acting like cutting these players leaves the team in shambles. I really wonder if they all blacked out in 2011 and forgot how their "best" players showed up to win two games after going to the playoffs 11/12 years.

I think cutting some players, even though they are fan favorites is the right way to move on from the Peyton era.
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Old 03-10-2012, 01:42 PM    (permalink
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If you look at it rationally, these cuts make a ton of sense and don't hurt Luck at all.

Bracket - old, slow, small, and already replaced by Pat Angerer. Massively overpaid. Terrible contract by Bill Polian.

Clark - completely crumbled when Manning didn't play. Dropped every 3rd pass that hit him in the hands. He is a Manning creation. Both Wayne and Garcon stepped up and had 900+ yard seasons. Clark was pathetic, he's over 30, he can't block, and he's gotten hurt a lot. No big loss.

Addai - Lots of wear and tear, not fast, and his knowledge of the Manning offense was his best trait. Overpaid. I like him, he is the toughest loss, but he's a RB. He's replaceable.

Bullitt - Has a glass shoulder and he should've never been paid starter money. Another zero-impact cut.

Meanwhile these cuts free up $25 million in new cap space for 2013.
This is what I was coming in to post.

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The biggest hit is lossing leadership, but with a rebuilding team I think it can be good to cut ties with some guys to let new leadership grow. I hope the Colts develop a new attitude and this is a good first step.
What leadership? Soft and complacent isn't what I want anyone teaching the kids the Colts need to be bringing in to become successful again.
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Old 03-10-2012, 01:43 PM    (permalink
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IamAmerica'sHat has no idea what he's talking about, don't waste your time explaining obvious things to him. These were smart cuts and the Colts will be competing for the division again by 2014. I can't wait til we have Luck and the rest of this class a year in, a high pick in the 2013 draft, and a ton of cap space to bring in a guy like Revis or Willis or Megatron in free agency.
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Old 03-10-2012, 01:43 PM    (permalink
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And where are they going to find a team?????? All the top NFL teams have been built through the draft. Green Bay hasn't signed a FA in 3 years.

What good is cap space if you have no foundation to add to. FA's don't get you championships, they just add the final pieces.

They may get Luck to sign as a rookie but I'll bet he moves on after his rookie contract is done when he realizes he has come to a team going nowhere.

What the hell are you talking about? The draft, nor Free Agency has started yet. The only moves they could have made were releasing players and they did just that, which was the right move.


You act like they just obliterated a ton of decisions already. The players they cut weren't going to contribute a bunch of wins next season, and this is the same team Peyton would be on.


So what moves would you have liked to see them do from January to now? You sound like you haven't followed football in 30 years and like you haven't witnessed how fast teams can turn around their fortunes.
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Old 03-10-2012, 01:50 PM    (permalink
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And where are they going to find a team?????? All the top NFL teams have been built through the draft. Green Bay hasn't signed a FA in 3 years.

What good is cap space if you have no foundation to add to. FA's don't get you championships, they just add the final pieces.

They may get Luck to sign as a rookie but I'll bet he moves on after his rookie contract is done when he realizes he has come to a team going nowhere.
You understand that teams sign stop gap players to provide competition with youngsters and depth right? The Colts might go out and make an impact signing or two and grab some cheap temporary options while they build up that foundation. Guys that won't be on the team by the time they're competing but will give the young players someone to play with while they grow and build up their talent base. Trying to determine whether the team is going anywhere right now is ********, even though so far they've made all of the right moves.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 03-10-2012, 02:13 PM    (permalink
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And where are they going to find a team?????? All the top NFL teams have been built through the draft. Green Bay hasn't signed a FA in 3 years.

What good is cap space if you have no foundation to add to. FA's don't get you championships, they just add the final pieces.

They may get Luck to sign as a rookie but I'll bet he moves on after his rookie contract is done when he realizes he has come to a team going nowhere.
The draft and free agency. They will sign stop gaps. Maybe a top FA or two. Lots of picks. Pretty simple.
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Old 03-10-2012, 02:14 PM    (permalink
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they have almost $40 million in dead money next year now.http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...of-dead-money/
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Old 03-10-2012, 02:56 PM    (permalink
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they have almost $40 million in dead money next year now.http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...of-dead-money/
Not next year, this year. 2012 is already lost so it is time to eat dead cap and be ready to really improve in 2013.
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Old 03-10-2012, 03:04 PM    (permalink
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Next year the Colts are gonna be big players in the draft and free agency. Assuming they get the #1 pick again, which seems inevitable, they'll draft Robert Woods and go out and get some good free agents.
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Old 03-10-2012, 03:16 PM    (permalink
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10-15 year rebuilding process is LITERALLY the dumbest thing I have ever read.
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Old 03-10-2012, 03:19 PM    (permalink
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10-15 year rebuilding process is LITERALLY the dumbest thing I have ever read.


Must say i lol'ed hard when i read that.
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Old 03-10-2012, 04:15 PM    (permalink
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Next year the Colts are gonna be big players in the draft and free agency. Assuming they get the #1 pick again, which seems inevitable, they'll draft Robert Woods and go out and get some good free agents.
Is it sad to say I dont think they are a lock to be #1?
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Old 03-10-2012, 04:17 PM    (permalink
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Is it sad to say I dont think they are a lock to be #1?
I dont think its a lock but its looking likely. This is the least talented team in the NFL.
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Old 03-10-2012, 04:34 PM    (permalink
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Is it sad to say I dont think they are a lock to be #1?
I don't think you can ever say a team is a "lock" to be get the #1 pick. There's just too much weird **** that can happen in any game (the whole "any given sunday" cliche) that there's just no such thing as a guarantee. They'll certainly be one of the favourites though.
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Old 03-10-2012, 05:11 PM    (permalink
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Even the best of teams can find at best 4 starters per draft and some of those take a year or 2 before they actually start, that's assuming Pollock can actually make great picks.
To replace 15 starters is a minimum of 3 years if and that is a big if, everything in the draft goes right. I'm giving him credit for finding 4 to 6 starters in FA, and good luck with that.

The best teams in the NFL don't waste money on FA's till they reach the point where maybe they need a couple to fill in around their other solid players, teams that try to build through FA usually fail miserably.

I've seen teams rebuild many times over the years but I have NEVER seen a team gut itself like INDY did, it is unprecedented and I'll be very interested, like the league will, to see what kind of success they have, but I'm not holding my breath expecting great things.
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Old 03-10-2012, 06:21 PM    (permalink
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There's nothing wrong with any of these moves, I'm surprised anyone thinks otherwise. Other than Harrison and Wayne the Colts had a pretty garbage all-around team throughout most of the Peyton era (and Tarik Glenn and a few other guys before someone jumps on that, you get my point) and honestly their defense has always been a complete joke from scheme to personel. This team has the chance to draft one of the best QB prospects that's come along in a while, changed management top to bottom, has flipped the defensive philosphy upside down and really has nothing on the roster other than a few poor old souls that will just miss the Peyton days which will only feed into their demise in Indy. If Mathis buys into the system and becomes a beast 3-4 rusher he's a different story, if Luck ever led Indy anywhere he'd be one of the most talked about players as the only "old-school" and "new-school" Colt

Unless Luck legit carries the team on his back on a consistent basis in his rookie season they're looking at a sure-fire top 10 pick next year and for all we know another stud player. Through this class and next year's as well as free agent pieces both years and Luck (hopefully) being a true top QB in the league they will be fine. They are far better off gutting the roster completely than fooling themselves by keeping guys like Clark and Brackett around.

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Old 03-10-2012, 06:25 PM    (permalink
Vox Populi
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The Colts will be fine. They replaced over paid veterans whose production can be replicated by cheaper options while they look to build a more talented YOUNG roster. The only guys under 30 they got rid of were Addai and Bullitt (29 and 28). Diem, Wayne, Saturday, Brackett, Clark are all old, over paid, or frequently injured. Freeney will get them compensation of some form when hes traded too. If the Colts don't go out and spend money in free agency this year they'll get even more compensation for guys like Saturday, Diem, Garcon and Wayne (I think they're all FA's) as well even though I think only Wayne and Garcon will get any decent money.

Keeping those guys around for Luck to try to win with, when a healthy Peyton Manning literally had to carry a younger, more talented roster to a 10-6 record in 2010, and then the same guys produced a 2-14 season in 2011 would be completely pointless. The Colts are building a completely different kind of team. They're going to have a new kind of leadership and mentality instilled by the new coaching staff, and they'll want Andrew Luck to be the leader for them.

The Colts will probably be really bad for a couple years, and have some pretty high draft picks to go along with the massive amount of cap space that they'll have next year in free agency to get the guys that fit their new system. Not that its an acceptable argument, but playing against Gabbert twice a year won't hurt their record, and I don't see the Titans being anything more than a completely mediocre team for a while unless Locker puts it all together and turns out to be a fantastic player.

Yeah. The Colts will be crap for a couple years. They were going to be bad with those players anyways. Might as well get rid of them at the start and not force the guys into a rebuilding project and free up some cap room. The Mathis extension is a little puzzling, but I guess he fit into the new staffs plans based on their conversations with him. He definitely seems like a guy who could make a Dumerville-esque transition to a 3-4 though.
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Old 03-10-2012, 06:28 PM    (permalink
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Very exciting times for the Colts!
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Old 03-10-2012, 06:40 PM    (permalink
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It actually is. I was so tired of all the bs of Polian.
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Bill Polian is cancer wrapped in AIDS delivered in an XXL enema so please don't expect me to disagree with you.
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Old 03-10-2012, 06:43 PM    (permalink
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It actually is. I was so tired of all the bs of Polian.
I'm pleased for you. Well not pleased, but intruiged to see what happens over the next few years.
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Old 03-10-2012, 06:52 PM    (permalink
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Even the best of teams can find at best 4 starters per draft and some of those take a year or 2 before they actually start, that's assuming Pollock can actually make great picks.
To replace 15 starters is a minimum of 3 years if and that is a big if, everything in the draft goes right. I'm giving him credit for finding 4 to 6 starters in FA, and good luck with that.

The best teams in the NFL don't waste money on FA's till they reach the point where maybe they need a couple to fill in around their other solid players, teams that try to build through FA usually fail miserably.

I've seen teams rebuild many times over the years but I have NEVER seen a team gut itself like INDY did, it is unprecedented and I'll be very interested, like the league will, to see what kind of success they have, but I'm not holding my breath expecting great things.
This is actually EXACTLY how teams gut and rebuild themselves in the salary cap era.

You cite Green Bay as an example...guess you don't remember the purge they went through post-Sherman.

The Giants completely gutted their roster post-Fassel.

Same goes for KC, and they're literally missing ONLY a QB (which the Colts are getting plopped into their laps).

Baltimore has gutted their roster TWICE. Once after their Superbowl and again after moving on from Billick.

You get into way, way, way more trouble when you try to put off the rebuilding process with bad, veteran contracts and restructuring (think Jon Gruden in Tampa. And Al Davis, for that matter).

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