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Old 03-12-2012, 08:24 PM    (permalink
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I know Wes Bunting had an article the other day.....he said spending one first on Ryan Tannehill (and maybe even trading down to get him and adding some midrounders) might be a better idea than trading 3 firsts and a high second to get Griffin - especially if you really really like Tannehill (which I could see with the Browns b/c of all the QB gurus in the building and the fact that he is tailor made for the west coast offense). The guy has terrific upside despite his inexperience redflag. I'm not a big Tanny fan, but it was an interesting point of view.
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Old 03-13-2012, 08:23 AM    (permalink
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An obvious question. What if the Colts shock the world and draft RG3 first overall? Do the Skins pull the trigger on Luck? I am not sure if they are doing this because RG3 is clearly at the top of their draft board.
My guess is, in a heartbeat, no 2nd thoughts about it. Luck is about as ideal as it gets for a Shanahan offense. Athletic, mobile QB, good outside the arms, can drive the ball, and hits the ground running in terms of a decent grasp of hi-low and 1-5 ability. Remember, he LOVED Bradford and contemplated trying to move up for him. From what I am led to believe, Luck is at the top of their draft board, but they, and everyone else, believe that the Colts will take Luck.
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Old 03-13-2012, 08:49 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by keylime_5 View Post
I know Wes Bunting had an article the other day.....he said spending one first on Ryan Tannehill (and maybe even trading down to get him and adding some midrounders) might be a better idea than trading 3 firsts and a high second to get Griffin - especially if you really really like Tannehill (which I could see with the Browns b/c of all the QB gurus in the building and the fact that he is tailor made for the west coast offense). The guy has terrific upside despite his inexperience redflag. I'm not a big Tanny fan, but it was an interesting point of view.
I saw that too Keylime. It was a different perspective. I am a Tannehill fan, he has all the tools. It's a shame he injured his foot in the predraft process and was unable to attend the Senior Bowl (the Redskins coached the south team)or participate in the combine. If he had done so the predraft landscape may be much different. For comparisons sakes I think it would of been nice to see him run a 40 and see how he fared in the other drills. He is an athletic QB. Right up there with Griffin, Locker and Newton.

For all the buzz Griffin made at the combine Tannehill also garnered really positive reviews for his interviews and time at the podium. If he was able to run a 40 in the 4.5 range and throw I think he would of received a significant bump.I don't think Tannehill should be a top 10 QB taken, he needs more polish/refinement to his game but he is a first round talent. More and more I see him in Seattle.
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Old 03-14-2012, 12:31 PM    (permalink
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You can look at my post history and see I am definitely not a troll. I guess I am being "hyper agressive" because the Browns were in the perfect position to add their QB of the future, and it looks like they messed around and lost out.

I respect the improvement on defense, but I don't feel like they are in that Elite tier like San Fran, and I don't think they are that close to being there either. They are a top 1/3 defense in my eyes, and that is not good enough to make up for an offense that putrid.

I'm a Lions fan, I have no vested interest in what they do, but it would be nice for Browns to be good as one of the storied franchises in the league.
Do you have a split personality? This post is much more reasoned and rational than anything you've previously posted in this thread by far.

As a Lions fan, you do realize that things can turn over pretty quickly, and have seen what a franchise QB can do. You've also seen the crap beaten out of your franchise QB because the line sucks and the kid has been hurt quite a bit because of it.

It's not like the Browns didn't want RGIII or Andrew Luck. They just didn't offer enough to move up for RGIII or were too late. Regardless, it looks like they are going to punt another season on QB. It sucks, but the team was going to suck with or without a promising young QB this year anyways.
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Old 03-14-2012, 01:21 PM    (permalink
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That's a lot to give up. A lot. I'm ok with going with McCoy for one more season. I know most people can't stand him but the guy works his butt off so I'm ok with it. I also don't want to see Cleveland go after Flynn, Tannehill, or pretty much any QB the rest of this offseason. (short of Peyton Manning, but c'mon, like there's any chance of that happening) Let's just start building our team, and if Colt doesn't work out, we'll find a franchise signal caller next season.

This is me saying I don't think anyone left is worth the time, and I'm ok with keeping our first rounders for the next three drafts.
SMH....you silly Browns fans, you...
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Old 03-15-2012, 03:29 PM    (permalink
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Holmgren said today that their offer for the #2 pick was better than what the Redskins offered (or "every bit as good") and that he doesn't think anything they did could've gotten them that pick. Sounds like a Shanahan/Fisher thing. I don't want to hear anymore **** about the Browns missing the boat on this thing. I think in the long haul we'll look back on this and see that the Browns ended up getting a bunch of good players (and maybe a franchise as well) out of the picks that the Rams didn't get for RGIII.....but you can't say they didn't try.

Holmgren also said that he was going to discourage Heckert from trading down (I assume for Tannehill) and it seems they'd be willing to go with McCoy for another season - this time with a better team around him than last year. The link is on the Cleveland paper sites and rotoworld.
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Old 03-15-2012, 03:32 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by keylime_5 View Post
Holmgren said today that their offer for the #2 pick was better than what the Redskins offered (or "every bit as good") and that he doesn't think anything they did could've gotten them that pick. Sounds like a Shanahan/Fisher thing. I don't want to hear anymore **** about the Browns missing the boat on this thing. I think in the long haul we'll look back on this and see that the Browns ended up getting a bunch of good players (and maybe a franchise as well) out of the picks that the Rams didn't get for RGIII.....but you can't say they didn't try.

Holmgren also said that he was going to discourage Heckert from trading down (I assume for Tannehill) and it seems they'd be willing to go with McCoy for another season - this time with a better team around him than last year. The link is on the Cleveland paper sites and rotoworld.
Good stuff. Thanks for the info
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Old 03-15-2012, 03:36 PM    (permalink
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...so essentially the Rams turned down a better offer from the Browns because they are butt-buddies with the Redskins' front office people. I bet Rams fans aren't as happy with that bit of information - could've gotten #4, #22, #37, and our 2013 1st (likely top 10 pick) instead of #6, #39, 2013 1st, and a 2014 1st. The only top ten pick they get out of that is probably the #6. Redskins will be picking in the teens and twenties in '13 and '14.
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Old 03-15-2012, 03:56 PM    (permalink
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...so essentially the Rams turned down a better offer from the Browns because they are butt-buddies with the Redskins' front office people. I bet Rams fans aren't as happy with that bit of information - could've gotten #4, #22, #37, and our 2013 1st (likely top 10 pick) instead of #6, #39, 2013 1st, and a 2014 1st. The only top ten pick they get out of that is probably the #6. Redskins will be picking in the teens and twenties in '13 and '14.
In D.C. what I'm reading is that the Browns got too cute in their negotiations instead of rapidly putting their best offer on the table. When you're negotiating against the madness of Dan Snyder, you have to realize he's prepared to go right up to the edge in compensation, if not over it, in any trade for a player he believes he HAS to have.

When the Skins were negotiating with the Broncos for Cutler, the Bears immediately matched whatever the SKins were offering plus Orton. Unfortunately the Broncos felt that Orton was a better option for them at QB than Jason Campbell.

Tannehill from a talent perspective is solidly no worse than the 3rd best QB prospect in this draft IMO. He should be an upgrade over McCoy down the road.
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Old 03-15-2012, 04:02 PM    (permalink
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In D.C. what I'm reading is that the Browns got too cute in their negotiations instead of rapidly putting their best offer on the table. When you're negotiating against the madness of Dan Snyder, you have to realize he's prepared to go right up to the edge in compensation, if not over it, in any trade for a player he believes he HAS to have.

When the Skins were negotiating with the Broncos for Cutler, the Bears immediately matched whatever the SKins were offering plus Orton. Unfortunately the Broncos felt that Orton was a better option for them at QB than Jason Campbell.

Tannehill from a talent perspective is solidly no worse than the 3rd best QB prospect in this draft IMO. He should be an upgrade over McCoy down the road.
This makes more sense. The Rams wouldn't just turn down a better offer, and accept a lesser offer from a team in their own conference without a reason.

I think logic would dictate that the Browns did something to irk the Rams in negotiations.
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Old 03-15-2012, 04:17 PM    (permalink
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In D.C. what I'm reading is that the Browns got too cute in their negotiations instead of rapidly putting their best offer on the table. When you're negotiating against the madness of Dan Snyder, you have to realize he's prepared to go right up to the edge in compensation, if not over it, in any trade for a player he believes he HAS to have.

When the Skins were negotiating with the Broncos for Cutler, the Bears immediately matched whatever the SKins were offering plus Orton. Unfortunately the Broncos felt that Orton was a better option for them at QB than Jason Campbell.

Tannehill from a talent perspective is solidly no worse than the 3rd best QB prospect in this draft IMO. He should be an upgrade over McCoy down the road.
The thing about taking Tannehill - even in a trade down (which I would be okay with) - is that if you pass on sure thing pro bowl talent like Blackmon/Claiborne/Richardson and take a QB who misses (and there is areally big chance that Tannehill doesn't pan out as we all know) then you are gonna be in hot water - especially when you are all about using high draft picks to infuse a bad rebuilding team with talent in your philosophy. I thin kthe Browns feel like they want a surer thing with their high picks at QB (like Bradford, Griffin, Barkley, etc. in stead of Tannehill, Weeden, Clausen, etc.)

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This makes more sense. The Rams wouldn't just turn down a better offer, and accept a lesser offer from a team in their own conference without a reason.

I think logic would dictate that the Browns did something to irk the Rams in negotiations.

In the end, when you are about to sign off on a deal, you have two offers and you should take the better one. We might never know the whole story, but Holmgren says the Rams turned down a better offer and I'll take his word for it. I imagine the Browns were reluctant to depart with that many quality picks considering their philosophy (free agents are evil, only use draft picks to rebuild the team), so they probably were "cute" but in the end they offered 3 firsts and a 2nd - and their picks were more valuable than Washington's.
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Old 03-15-2012, 04:40 PM    (permalink
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In the end, when you are about to sign off on a deal, you have two offers and you should take the better one. We might never know the whole story, but Holmgren says the Rams turned down a better offer and I'll take his word for it. I imagine the Browns were reluctant to depart with that many quality picks considering their philosophy (free agents are evil, only use draft picks to rebuild the team), so they probably were "cute" but in the end they offered 3 firsts and a 2nd - and their picks were more valuable than Washington's.
I've been asking some of my St. Louis buddies, and what they are saying is basically Cleveland came with the better offer after the Redskins deal had already been verbally agreed to. They had refused to give up #22 for the longest.

Also this smells of Holmgren trying to save face with upset season ticket holders. So I'm not so sure I would just take everything he says as gospel.
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Old 03-15-2012, 05:01 PM    (permalink
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the deal couldn't be official until March 13th and the deal was finalized on March 9th........AND the draft isn't until the end of April........so it's not like they were pressed for time. Why agree to a deal before a final offer is in that long before you were pressed to get something done? We all know this is a last minute league in the trading game - it just doesn't add up. The Rams/Redskins deal had to have been more of a WAS/STL FO being cushy with other. Even if the Browns were reluctant to give a better final offer, in the end they did give a better offer. Would you turn down a better deal if you had a verbal with another team? No. Poor excuse.
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Old 03-15-2012, 06:32 PM    (permalink
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...so essentially the Rams turned down a better offer from the Browns because they are butt-buddies with the Redskins' front office people. I bet Rams fans aren't as happy with that bit of information - could've gotten #4, #22, #37, and our 2013 1st (likely top 10 pick) instead of #6, #39, 2013 1st, and a 2014 1st. The only top ten pick they get out of that is probably the #6. Redskins will be picking in the teens and twenties in '13 and '14.
Sorry, but I just don't believe Holmgren, not for a second. He failed and is throwing excuses out for his ineptitude for fan consumption. Pro football is a business and while friends don't hurt, there is no way the Rams turned down a better deal, especially after the Browns said they wouldn't part with the 22nd pick. Holmgren tried to play tough and got taken to the cleaners but he cannot tell his fan base that without perhaps getting fired.
Really, what else did you expect him to say???
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Old 03-16-2012, 02:14 PM    (permalink
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Sorry, but I just don't believe Holmgren, not for a second. He failed and is throwing excuses out for his ineptitude for fan consumption. Pro football is a business and while friends don't hurt, there is no way the Rams turned down a better deal, especially after the Browns said they wouldn't part with the 22nd pick. Holmgren tried to play tough and got taken to the cleaners but he cannot tell his fan base that without perhaps getting fired.
Really, what else did you expect him to say???
Exactly... what else was he going to say. It's one thing if they thought the price was too high, but to botch the deal, then try to come back and save face would bother me if I were a Browns fan.
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Old 03-16-2012, 03:11 PM    (permalink
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Sorry, but I just don't believe Holmgren, not for a second. He failed and is throwing excuses out for his ineptitude for fan consumption. Pro football is a business and while friends don't hurt, there is no way the Rams turned down a better deal, especially after the Browns said they wouldn't part with the 22nd pick. Holmgren tried to play tough and got taken to the cleaners but he cannot tell his fan base that without perhaps getting fired.
Really, what else did you expect him to say???
I think he might be making it look a little more messed up than it really was - but there were reports that the Browns offered 3 firsts and a 2nd right after news came out that the Redskins made the trade, so I don't think it's as fabricated as you think. Nepotism probably was in play here.
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Old 03-16-2012, 07:40 PM    (permalink
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I do have to admit I was extremely surprised this deal got done so fast, I can't remember anything like this happening before. If your the Rams, why not shop the offer around that you have and see who wants to top it for at least the better part of March.


What if Miami was willing to do more after missing on Peyton and potentially missing on Flynn? They might be stuck at QB, want to hit it big, and be 10x more desperate now then they were in February. They could easily back out of the RGIII trade talks then, or at least don't negotiate hard because they had a few other options out there.


Doesn't seem like good business on behalf of STL. I just don't see what positives you get from agreeing so early.
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Old 03-16-2012, 07:52 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend View Post
I do have to admit I was extremely surprised this deal got done so fast, I can't remember anything like this happening before. If your the Rams, why not shop the offer around that you have and see who wants to top it for at least the better part of March.


What if Miami was willing to do more after missing on Peyton and potentially missing on Flynn? They might be stuck at QB, want to hit it big, and be 10x more desperate now then they were in February. They could easily back out of the RGIII trade talks then, or at least don't negotiate hard because they had a few other options out there.


Doesn't seem like good business on behalf of STL. I just don't see what positives you get from agreeing so early.
the only reason they made it so early was that they didn't want to gamble that the Browns and/or Redskins signed a QB in free agency like Manning or Flynn to cut down on the value of the #2 pick. That pick was worth most when the Redskins and Browns both at #4 and 6 were in a bidding war over him. They did well to get 3 firsts and a 2nd for one pick. If they waited until draft day they probably would've gotten more (Manning was never gonna go to Washington, and the Browns in hindsight put all of their eggs in the RG3 basket and weren't interested in free agent QBs), but they didn't want to take that chance.

I don't blame you for questioning the Rams' decisions so far. Not giving the Browns an ample oppurtunity to match the Redskins offer just b/c they are buddies with Washington's front office - not getting full value of the #2 pick by trading it so soon. They also might miss out on Blackmon AND Kalil now by trading down out of the top 5 and might have to settle for a runningback (which is probably the least of their needs right now).
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Old 03-16-2012, 08:10 PM    (permalink
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The Browns and Redskins I believe were both told it was going to be a closed, sealed bidding process and each team was asked to submit their best offer.

It's not like Holmgren had 24 hours to open and close the deal. He ahd time to work out a deal. If he had come out the box offering three #1s and 2nd, the Rams would have closed the bidding right then.

Holmgren also should have realized that Shanny and Jeff Fisher do have a relationship and if there's a tie breaker, that friendship could come into play.
That's why he needed to know before ever entering negotiations how badly he wanted RGIII, because there were two major factors working against him; an impulsive owner in Dan Snyder and two HCs who are tight with each other.

Snyder in the past has screwed up in player evaluation, but when it comes to securing a top tier NFL talent in FA, he's demonstrated he's willing to overpay to get his guy.

I'm not going to feel to badly for the Browns because either they pick Tannehill, or wait until the 2013 draft to snag Barkley/Jones/Wilson/Bray/Glennon.
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Old 03-16-2012, 10:22 PM    (permalink
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That doesn't make sense......the tie breaker should be whoever had the best offer. It's not like the two teams could offer the exact same picks - the Browns pick higher in every round and had two first rounders this year.

How it works is teams get offers, and once a team gets a top offer, they give another team a chance to match the bid (which is why in some cases teams use other teams to drive up the price of a player they are trying to trade). If the Redskins offered what they did the Rams likely went to the Browns to see if they would top it (or in this case, just match it b/c their picks are more valuable). If they didn't do that then they didn't truly try to get the best offer and turned down better picks just to help out their friends on a conference rival team. That's what Holmgren is implying they did (whether he's telling the truth or not we don't know, but it's good politics by him either way). If the Rams did go to the Browns and didn't get a better offer then Holmgren is lying and it makes more sense, but Holmgren sure didn't sound too happy, so I give him the benefit of the doubt.
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Old 03-16-2012, 10:33 PM    (permalink
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As a long time Redskins fan, this trade had to happen. Criticize it all you want, but settling for Tannehil was unacceptable.

Also tell me which teams wouldn't take Orakpo/Trent/Kerrigan/RG3 over a 6 year span?
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Old 03-19-2012, 01:18 PM    (permalink
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It appears Holmgren wasn't telling the whole story:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...ignings/1.html

Snead wanted the best offer by a deadline and Cleveland didn't do that, the Redskins did. Snead dealt with the situation honorably, and kudos to him. Then Holmgren publicly whined about it, shameful.
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Old 03-19-2012, 01:21 PM    (permalink
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It appears Holmgren wasn't telling the whole story:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...ignings/1.html

Snead wanted the best offer by a deadline and Cleveland didn't do that, the Redskins did. Snead dealt with the situation honorably, and kudos to him. Then Holmgren publicly whined about it, shameful.
Sounds plausible and Holmgren like. What a chubby douche.
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Old 03-19-2012, 01:31 PM    (permalink
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Look I am a Browns fan and I wanted RG3. But really, the Rams had the pick and they made the rules. Everyone knew the rules. The Redskins made the better offer in their eyes and they took it.

That being said I would point out......

1) if they indeed trade up in the draft and give up a 2nd rounder or more, then this contradicts that they took a better offer. They should have taken Clev. 3 first offer.

2) They may have panicked about the FA QB and cost themselves more. With Manning going to Denver and Flynn to Seattle, the Rams would have Wash, Clev and an even more desperate Miami trying to acquire that pick as it stands now........
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Old 03-23-2012, 11:45 AM    (permalink
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http://network.yardbarker.com/nfl/ar...tions/10381321

here's what happened according to the Rams' GM:

Quote:
Snead said he told all teams interested on March 8 that he was going to have the trade done by the end of that day, and he was going to ask each team to give its best offer for the trade. At that point, he said, after listening to all the proposals, he was going to take the best offer — unless the offer was not anywhere near what the Rams wanted for the pick.

Those were the rules, Snead said Sunday, that he made clear to each team. Snead asked for everyone’s best offer in individual phone calls. It’s unclear what Cleveland’s offer was, but Washington offered three first-round picks and one second-round pick. That offer, Snead said, was better than Cleveland’s offer. So he told Washington officials that they’d won the bidding and told the Browns they’d lost. At that point, Snead said, Cleveland tried to make another offer, and Snead said the window was closed; the Rams were taking Washington’s offer.
so it makes sense how it happened the way it did......BUT the Rams still turned down a better offer and shut off the bidding instead of milking that pick for all they could get. They told every team to give their best offer and they didn't give anyone a chance to make a better one - that's not how you get top value in a trade. Why didn't they call other teams to try and match the Redskins' offer? The trade was made several days before free agency. It doesn't make sense. Not great communication/aggressiveness on the Browns part, no, but still the Rams could've gotten more and left better picks on the table.
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