Draft Countdown Forums

Go Back   Draft Countdown Forums > Draft Countdown Forums > 2014 NFL Draft Forum

2014 NFL Draft Forum Discuss the 2014 NFL Draft

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-10-2012, 05:41 PM    (permalink
PoopSandwich
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,247
Reputation: 1142097
PoopSandwich is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PoopSandwich is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PoopSandwich is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PoopSandwich is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PoopSandwich is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PoopSandwich is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PoopSandwich is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PoopSandwich is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PoopSandwich is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PoopSandwich is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PoopSandwich is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

While Flynn may not be amazing, I would rather take my chances and find out a year or two from now that he isn't. I don't see how Cleveland can go into 2012 without another QB on this roster to at least push Colt a little bit more (I'm not questioning his work ethic just his ability to throw a football). Henne Flynn Campbell and Manning will all be most likely starting somewhere in 2012 so I don't think Tannehill's stock will rise too high. There are also other QB's that are more projects such as Osweiler (I have no idea how to spell his name.) that someone may want to wait for instead of reaching for Tannehill.

It kind of sucks that the Redskins already made the trade, because this would have made draft day absolutely insane when it went down, everyone would have been drunk going NO WAY WHAT THE **** THREE FIRST ROUNDERS Berman would have had a heart attack Kiper's head would have exploded and the other jackasses that they cast would have been so entertaining to listen to because they would have had no idea what to say.

I think this free agency turns out to be one of the most entertaining ones in recent memory with a lot of shake up in this league. Offseasons like this one are the reason why there are constantly new teams in the playoffs every single year.
__________________


"If something happens, and it's the Cleveland Browns, I'm going to pour my heart out for the Dawg Pound and try to win a Super Bowl for Cleveland," he said. "I don't care if they've had 20 starting quarterbacks since 1999. I'm going to be the 21st and the guy that brought them the Super Bowl." - JFF
PoopSandwich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2012, 05:45 PM    (permalink
stlouisfan37
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,230
Reputation: 163516
stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by papageorgio View Post
You need a franchise QB and the only sure fire way of doing that is getting a top draft pick.

Your comparing the most well run franchises in the NFL to the St Louis Rams. What have the rams shown in their recent draft history that they wont pick a bunch of scrubs.

They needed RG3 more than a couple late firsts and seconds.
Sam Bradford is the Rams' franchise QB. They were never going to trade him. He was a major reason why Fisher chose St. Louis over Miami.

The Rams have made a complete overhaul of their front office and drafting talent is a priority. I don't think you will be seeing the same lousy results in the future. Trust me, no one knows about the Rams crappy drafts more than we do. I remember several years ago SCREAMING at my TV for the Rams to take Brandon Siler with a spare 6th rounder we had picked up, only to watch San Diego take him a few picks later in the 7th round and hearing Mike Mayock say, "Now this is what separates good franchises from lousy ones. They know talent when they see it, and they know when a talented player comes at a great value...blah blah blah..."

Oh yeah...we'll be getting some diamonds in the rough with this regime.
stlouisfan37 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2012, 05:49 PM    (permalink
toonsterwu
Moderator
Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Maryland
Posts: 23,423
Reputation: 102758
toonsterwu is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.toonsterwu is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.toonsterwu is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.toonsterwu is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.toonsterwu is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.toonsterwu is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.toonsterwu is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.toonsterwu is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.toonsterwu is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.toonsterwu is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.toonsterwu is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by keylime_5 View Post
Terry Pluto is one of the most level headed sports writers we have. Here's his take. Not a lot we don't know, but it's interesting to see him trashing the Redskins management anyways from his perspective.

http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/blog/...medium=twitter

While I wish we made the trade, I certainly can see that there is a pretty damn good chance that not making it ends up being a good idea for the Browns once we see who we draft with those picks we would've traded and (hopefully) what our alternative at QB ends up being. I do believe that the Redskins probably are going to not regret the trade, but becoming a legit super bowl contender is going to have to be put off until they can start building around Griffin through the draft again 3+ years from now.
My general thought has always been that, while I thought the Browns should've made a move for him, it always made sense for the Redskins to value making the move more than the it did for the Browns. I know some here still view the Skins as a mess, but they are further along the rebuilding process than the Browns are, and making this move now, coupled with the money they have to spend in FA and the fact that they didn't give up multiple picks next year, gives them a chance to look forward to a playoff push in 2-3 years if Griffin develops. Now, if Griffin flames out, then they are a mess for 4-5 years, but it was the right time for the Skins to take that aggressive gamble. While I certainly would've applauded the Browns if they had done it, a big trade like this now is probably a year early for them in some respects.
toonsterwu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2012, 06:07 PM    (permalink
stlouisfan37
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,230
Reputation: 163516
stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperPacker View Post
Running Game
Washington has a big edge here. Shanahan is a master of getting RB's like Helu to do well and thats what hes done. The Browns might not have Hillis, Hardesty too injury prone and neither of them would scare a defense.

Offensive Line
Both have some good players but could be upgraded. Browns have an issue at RT and so do the Redskins. Browns win because they have Joe Thomas.

Receivers
Redskins win here IMO. They have Santana Moss, Leonard Hankerson and Red Davis whilst the Browns have Greg Little. The Redskins are also more likely to get a big name free agent. Throw in Vincent Jackson and its an ideal receiving core.

Defense
Both have good defenses. Redskins have the better front 7 but the Browns have the better secondary.

Overall i think Washington is a better place for him to go.
Ownership
The Redskins have the NFL's worst owner. He is a spoiled brat that thinks he can buy whatever he wants, including Super Bowl rings. Advantage: Cleveland

System
Cleveland is methodically building a team through the draft. While I don't necessarily care for Mike Holmgren's personality, he has done little to break down team chemistry and finally appears to have the Cleveland Browns moving forward and gaining momentum. Washington's owner does whatever he wants with complete disregard for team chemistry or cost, save for last season when kept their checkbook closed. It remains to be seen if that was a random year or a sign for the future. Advantage: Cleveland
stlouisfan37 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2012, 06:10 PM    (permalink
stlouisfan37
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,230
Reputation: 163516
stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperPacker View Post
RGIII, Vincent Jackson & Doug Martin > Flynn, Richardson, Vincent Jackson & Wright
I think it is highly unlikely that Doug Martin falls to the 3rd round. Especially if the Rams take him with the 2nd rounder we just got from you.
stlouisfan37 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2012, 06:11 PM    (permalink
SuperPacker
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: awkward
Posts: 11,054
Reputation: 2237213
SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by stlouisfan37 View Post
Ownership
The Redskins have the NFL's worst owner. He is a spoiled brat that thinks he can buy whatever he wants, including Super Bowl rings. Advantage: Cleveland

System
Cleveland is methodically building a team through the draft. While I don't necessarily care for Mike Holmgren's personality, he has done little to break down team chemistry and finally appears to have the Cleveland Browns moving forward and gaining momentum. Washington's owner does whatever he wants with complete disregard for team chemistry or cost, save for last season when kept their checkbook closed. It remains to be seen if that was a random year or a sign for the future. Advantage: Cleveland
But yet the Redskins were the ones smart enough to trade up and get Robert Griffin. Meaning Cleveland will forever be wishing a franchise quarterback will fall into their lap whilst the Redskins will have one.

Advantage: Redskins
__________________



RIP themaninblack
SuperPacker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2012, 06:13 PM    (permalink
SuperPacker
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: awkward
Posts: 11,054
Reputation: 2237213
SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by stlouisfan37 View Post
I think it is highly unlikely that Doug Martin falls to the 3rd round. Especially if the Rams take him with the 2nd rounder we just got from you.
You think im a Redskins fan? Why dont you just look at my username and you'll know which team i support.

So no, my argument isnt based on bias it is based on common sense. Something you seem to lack.
__________________



RIP themaninblack
SuperPacker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2012, 06:14 PM    (permalink
descendency
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: NC State
Posts: 8,109
Reputation: 986277
descendency is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.descendency is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.descendency is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.descendency is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.descendency is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.descendency is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.descendency is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.descendency is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.descendency is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.descendency is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.descendency is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by stlouisfan37 View Post
The Redskins have the NFL's worst owner.
When did Jerry Jones become the owner of the Redskins?
__________________
I was gone for 2 months doing things I can't talk about. It might happen again, but that's just the nature of what I do and who I am.
descendency is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2012, 06:15 PM    (permalink
stlouisfan37
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,230
Reputation: 163516
stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by toonsterwu View Post
I have a hard time seeing Tannehill fall to 22, though. I think some team likely plucks him up in the teens to develop.
I think Tannehill goes way higher than he should and a bidding war happens in the top 10
stlouisfan37 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2012, 06:15 PM    (permalink
SuperPacker
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: awkward
Posts: 11,054
Reputation: 2237213
SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by descendency View Post
When did Jerry Jones become the owner of the Redskins?
Jerry Jones and Bill Polian are equal IMO. Imagine if they were you're owner and general manager.
__________________



RIP themaninblack
SuperPacker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2012, 06:16 PM    (permalink
PoopSandwich
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,247
Reputation: 1142097
PoopSandwich is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PoopSandwich is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PoopSandwich is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PoopSandwich is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PoopSandwich is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PoopSandwich is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PoopSandwich is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PoopSandwich is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PoopSandwich is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PoopSandwich is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PoopSandwich is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperPacker View Post
But yet the Redskins were the ones smart enough to trade up and get Robert Griffin. Meaning Cleveland will forever be wishing a franchise quarterback will fall into their lap whilst the Redskins will have one.

Advantage: Redskins
Depends if we get Flynn and he pans out.

I can't really hate the Browns for not mortgaging our drafts especially if we offered three firsts and it was declined in favor of Wash.
__________________


"If something happens, and it's the Cleveland Browns, I'm going to pour my heart out for the Dawg Pound and try to win a Super Bowl for Cleveland," he said. "I don't care if they've had 20 starting quarterbacks since 1999. I'm going to be the 21st and the guy that brought them the Super Bowl." - JFF
PoopSandwich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2012, 06:18 PM    (permalink
Bulldogs
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 8,850
Reputation: 1811593
Bulldogs is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Bulldogs is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Bulldogs is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Bulldogs is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Bulldogs is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Bulldogs is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Bulldogs is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Bulldogs is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Bulldogs is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Bulldogs is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Bulldogs is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

I think Browns fans will be alot angrier a month and a half from now if they end up reaching on Ryan Tannehill.
__________________
Bulldogs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2012, 06:21 PM    (permalink
SuperPacker
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: awkward
Posts: 11,054
Reputation: 2237213
SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WinslowBodden View Post
Depends if we get Flynn and he pans out.

I can't really hate the Browns for not mortgaging our drafts especially if we offered three firsts and it was declined in favor of Wash.
It wouldnt of cost the Browns THAT much. #4, #22, #36, 2013 1st. It is a lot but not completely mortaging their future. Im dissapointed in the Browns not having the balls to get Griffin but yeah Flynn could come.

As i said, a lot would need to happen though.
__________________



RIP themaninblack
SuperPacker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2012, 06:23 PM    (permalink
PoopSandwich
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,247
Reputation: 1142097
PoopSandwich is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PoopSandwich is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PoopSandwich is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PoopSandwich is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PoopSandwich is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PoopSandwich is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PoopSandwich is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PoopSandwich is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PoopSandwich is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PoopSandwich is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PoopSandwich is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperPacker View Post
It wouldnt of cost the Browns THAT much. #4, #22, #36, 2013 1st. It is a lot but not completely mortaging their future. Im dissapointed in the Browns not having the balls to get Griffin but yeah Flynn could come.

As i said, a lot would need to happen though.
It all depends if they thought he was the guy, if they thought free agents would want to sign here, and if they offered it and the Rams just took the Rams deal instead.
__________________


"If something happens, and it's the Cleveland Browns, I'm going to pour my heart out for the Dawg Pound and try to win a Super Bowl for Cleveland," he said. "I don't care if they've had 20 starting quarterbacks since 1999. I'm going to be the 21st and the guy that brought them the Super Bowl." - JFF
PoopSandwich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2012, 06:24 PM    (permalink
keylime_5
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 13,776
Reputation: 303889
keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.keylime_5 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by toonsterwu View Post
My general thought has always been that, while I thought the Browns should've made a move for him, it always made sense for the Redskins to value making the move more than the it did for the Browns. I know some here still view the Skins as a mess, but they are further along the rebuilding process than the Browns are, and making this move now, coupled with the money they have to spend in FA and the fact that they didn't give up multiple picks next year, gives them a chance to look forward to a playoff push in 2-3 years if Griffin develops. Now, if Griffin flames out, then they are a mess for 4-5 years, but it was the right time for the Skins to take that aggressive gamble. While I certainly would've applauded the Browns if they had done it, a big trade like this now is probably a year early for them in some respects.
I've seen this point argued several times, and while I don't exactly disagree strongly or anything......if you look at it the Redskins really aren't that much further along if at all. All the Redskins have is some nice talent on defense. The Browns have a lot of nice talent on defense as well, and it's younger for the most part. Browns were 10th in overall defense last year, Redskins were 14th. They both have nothing at QB, nothing at WR, and Offensive lines that badly need to be fixed. They are both looking good defensively but blank slates offensively.

I think that the only real reason why giving up all those picks makes more sense for the Redskins is what stlouisfan alluded to - the philosophy of how each team builds a team. Shanahan and the Redskins and Daniel Snyder are very much in win now mode, they want to get a QB right now, they want to spend money in free agency to try and win a division with 3 other teams who are all good. The Browns are trying to completely rebuild, and they are doing it with draft picks and almost no free agency spending at all. They are building to make the team a championship contender more than 3 years from now. The Redskins aren't really any further along than we are, it's just a matter of when they expect to start competing on the timeline of their management.
__________________
keylime_5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2012, 06:26 PM    (permalink
SuperPacker
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: awkward
Posts: 11,054
Reputation: 2237213
SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WinslowBodden View Post
It all depends if they thought he was the guy, if they thought free agents would want to sign here, and if they offered it and the Rams just took the Rams deal instead.
If the Browns offered what i said there would be no reason for the Rams to say no. A higher 1st, a 1st in 2012 instead of 2014 and a higher 2nd round pick.
__________________



RIP themaninblack
SuperPacker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2012, 06:51 PM    (permalink
stlouisfan37
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,230
Reputation: 163516
stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by toonsterwu View Post
How are the Redskins a mess from the top-down? I don't necessarily disagree on the future value part (teams always find ways to rationalize trades, and while several teams in the past have utilized the 1 round downgrade on future value, that typically only references 1 year in the future picks (thus, saying a pick 2 years down the line is only worth the 3rd exaggerates the effect a bit too much). Furthermore, other teams use the half-method. Either way, while there is a downgrade in terms of valuation (which also might be adjusted due to the new CBA) for future picks, simply saying it follows one method is probably a bit too much).

But back on the Skins for a sec. How are they a mess from the top-down? It's actually a fairly stream-lined, well-run organization in the last 2 years. Whether or not that continues, who knows, but in the Shanahan era so far, Snyder has, by most accounts, according to the local folks, stayed out of the football decisions. Shanahan makes all the personnel decisions, Allen clears the cap. They did it the right way as well, in that, they cleared out the money situation first and built up the supporting cast.

--- Edit: I know there was some talk on whether or not they needed to revamp their scouting staff, so maybe that's a legitimate critique, but that doesn't really speak to how well-run the organization is, but whether or not they have selected the right people. ---

It doesn't diminish that this is a good trade for the Rams (although I highly doubt the Skins will be in the top 10 both of the next 2 seasons), but the Skins as a mess from top-down? Don't see it.
Okay, after re-reading my post and reading your post, I agree that "a mess from the top down" was a bit harsh. And to agree with another poster, I am an optimistic Rams fan. But in all honesty, I think that the two future 1's will be a lot higher than the #22 we could have received from Cleveland.

While Snyder may have stepped back some since Shanahan took over, I don't for one second believe that it will last. What you are suggesting yourself by going out and making a huge splash in FA to get the necessary pieces is the worst thing the Redskins could possibly do, because I don't think Snyder can control himself.

I also think that this move here was Shanahan trying to save his own job, and not necessarily in the best interest of the franchise. The Redskins have mortgaged a lot and moves like these rarely work out for the team that moves up. They never take into account things like depth in the event that key players are injured; you are essentially giving another team three (potential) young starters and relegate yourself to finding replacements that other teams either feel are not good enough or too expensive to keep.

You are also assuming that the big FA signings you are talking about as a compliment to this move are going to work out. How has that worked out in the past for the Redskins? Not very well. There have been several years in Washington since Daniel Snyder bought the team that the Redskins were by far the best team in the NFL "on paper," but the results have never materialized.

I don't mean to bash your team, and I apologize if I came off that way. But to read these posts it very much sounds like Redskins fans think that they have received the answer to all of their problems. When I read things like "I think we should give up whatever it takes to get this guy," and then the team follows suit, it really makes me think that both the team and its fans have lost touch with reality, at least to some extent.

Know this for sure; when the '13 and '14 drafts roll around, you will feel it when your team has to wait until the second day to take a player, and you won't always be saying, "But at least we have RGIII."
stlouisfan37 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2012, 06:54 PM    (permalink
stlouisfan37
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,230
Reputation: 163516
stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperPacker View Post
You think im a Redskins fan? Why dont you just look at my username and you'll know which team i support.

So no, my argument isnt based on bias it is based on common sense. Something you seem to lack.
My bad; you are correct, I should have known who I was talking to.

That being said, I don't think Doug Martin lasts to the 3rd round.
stlouisfan37 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2012, 07:03 PM    (permalink
stlouisfan37
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,230
Reputation: 163516
stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by toonsterwu View Post
I think my thoughts are

a) With Tannehill, most teams will likely wait to see how the FA's fall.
b) I think with the Broncos, Peyton was the exception to the Tebow rule. I have a hard, hard time seeing them go with Flynn or Tannehill over giving Tebow another year (could see them draft a 2nd-3rd round QB to develop, but a high cost-FA or a high 1st? Don't see it yet.)
c) I'm not so sure that KC/Arizona are going to dump their QB options to go with Tannehill either. Again, I think there's a Peyton exception to these teams as well, and for understandable reasons, but these are teams looking to compete now, and Tannehill doesn't achieve that.

d) I actually think Flynn is a bit over-hyped. I don't see how he's significantly better than say, a Brian Hoyer with the Pats (who I still think the Pats would shop if the right offer came). I mean, Hoyer on a mid-round pick and still signed for a year or Flynn on a big contract for multiple years? Flynn may be better, but I'm not sure I wouldn't prefer seeing if the Pats would move Hoyer instead.

e) All that said, all you need is 2 to have a market, and the top three teams would be enough to create a mini-market if enough of them wanted Tannehill that bad. At the end of the day, I think everyone is waiting on the Peyton decision. If Peyton goes to Miami, and Flynn signs with, say, Seattle, I think you'll see the latter three squads on your list back off QB's. Now, don't think Tannehill would fall to the 20's, although you never know, but there are definitely scenarios where him going in the top 10 is far from a lock (there's still a tiny, tiny part of me that does wonder whether or not Buffalo might quietly consider him, depending on their board).
I agree that the FA signings will be key to any draft movement for Tannehill. If Flynn and Manning go to Seattle and Miami, then there won't be much interest in Tannehill. However, if Flynn and Manning go to, say, Kansas City and Arizona, now all of a sudden you have 3 desperate teams fighting over one guy in the draft. Seattle, I think, will be a player with someone. If they don't land Manning or Flynn then they will be looking to trade up.

I also agree about Flynn. I don't think Miami is all that interested, although they may sign him if they have no options.
stlouisfan37 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2012, 07:05 PM    (permalink
SuperPacker
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: awkward
Posts: 11,054
Reputation: 2237213
SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by stlouisfan37 View Post
My bad; you are correct, I should have known who I was talking to.

That being said, I don't think Doug Martin lasts to the 3rd round.
Yeah you're right he probably wont last until the 3rd round but it was a best case scenario for the Rams. Robert Turbin would be a nice pick up for you aswell.
__________________



RIP themaninblack
SuperPacker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2012, 07:06 PM    (permalink
SolidGold
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 4,102
Reputation: 596900
SolidGold is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SolidGold is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SolidGold is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SolidGold is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SolidGold is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SolidGold is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SolidGold is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SolidGold is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SolidGold is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SolidGold is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SolidGold is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

I can't really blame the browns for not outbidding the skins. The Terry Pluto article someone posted earlier was a good read and I tend to agree with it. The Browns managed to keep all their picks and can continue to build through the draft. It will be interesting to see what the Browns do in free agency - do they go after Flynn? Will they go after anyone to help the right side of the o-line? The Browns have decent complimentary offensive weapons and just need a few impact players.


The Browns are a younger team, the Steelers purged quite a few veterans and are going through a change at o-coordinator and might be without Mike Wallace. Guys like Ziggy Hood and Heyward will be counted on to fill voids at DE, will Casey Hampton be back? Their offensive line is perennially terrible. The Ravens are also a veteran laden team whose window is closing some - Ray Lewis, Ed Reed, Matt Birk (if he comes back), Jarret Johnson, Anquan Boldin are on the wrong side of 30. Cincinatti seems to have a young solid core. In a year or two it could be the Browns/Bengals at the top of the division while the Steelers/Ravens are retooling.


Personally I believe the Redskins paid to much for the pick but now the pressure is on them to win and win next season with a rookie qb in a divsion with the Eagles/Giants/Cowboys.
SolidGold is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2012, 07:10 PM    (permalink
stlouisfan37
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,230
Reputation: 163516
stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperPacker View Post
But yet the Redskins were the ones smart enough to trade up and get Robert Griffin. Meaning Cleveland will forever be wishing a franchise quarterback will fall into their lap whilst the Redskins will have one.

Advantage: Redskins
The Redskins paid too much for this pick. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad they did...but putting Cleveland's decision making down won't change the fact that the Redskins have put their collective eggs in the basket of a 22-year old.
stlouisfan37 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2012, 07:13 PM    (permalink
toonsterwu
Moderator
Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Maryland
Posts: 23,423
Reputation: 102758
toonsterwu is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.toonsterwu is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.toonsterwu is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.toonsterwu is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.toonsterwu is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.toonsterwu is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.toonsterwu is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.toonsterwu is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.toonsterwu is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.toonsterwu is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.toonsterwu is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by keylime_5 View Post
I've seen this point argued several times, and while I don't exactly disagree strongly or anything......if you look at it the Redskins really aren't that much further along if at all. All the Redskins have is some nice talent on defense. The Browns have a lot of nice talent on defense as well, and it's younger for the most part. Browns were 10th in overall defense last year, Redskins were 14th. They both have nothing at QB, nothing at WR, and Offensive lines that badly need to be fixed. They are both looking good defensively but blank slates offensively.

I think that the only real reason why giving up all those picks makes more sense for the Redskins is what stlouisfan alluded to - the philosophy of how each team builds a team. Shanahan and the Redskins and Daniel Snyder are very much in win now mode, they want to get a QB right now, they want to spend money in free agency to try and win a division with 3 other teams who are all good. The Browns are trying to completely rebuild, and they are doing it with draft picks and almost no free agency spending at all. They are building to make the team a championship contender more than 3 years from now. The Redskins aren't really any further along than we are, it's just a matter of when they expect to start competing on the timeline of their management.
Fair point. I'd argue (while also noting that I said they were roughly 1 year ahead in rebuilding, which isn't anything these days in the NFL), on paper (see note at end), that the Redskins have

a) the better personnel offensive supporting cast to help a QB develop. They will either have 2-3 very effective backs, which is fine in the NFL. They have better weapons at WR as of now (before FA). I like Davis attacking the seams, and Moss is fine if he's not utilized as the key option. There's a lot more question marks, IMO, surrounding the Browns weapons around whoever is at QB. Because of Joe Thomas, the Browns OL is better, but I like the interior of the Redskins OL a bit more than the Browns, relative to their schemes (roughly Lichtensteiger, Montgomery, Chester ... they could use an upgrade, though).

b) I'm aware of the numbers for each defense, but I'm looking at it more from a personnel perspective. The Redskins have two pass rushers in place and better depth on the DL for their scheme (obviously, not fair to compare b/w the schemes, so just noting talent for the schemes). As solid as the Skins DL was, it's easy to forget that they were missing the guy that the staff thought was their best DL player. I was a big, big fan of Rubin and Sheard, and I like Taylor, but I don't love the Browns DL depth. The key is the 2nd pass rusher in place. The Browns secondary is a tick better in terms of talent, but Josh Wilson played well as the season progressed.

Notes -

- If it sounded like I was suggesting there was a big gap, I apologize. I should've been clearer and explained specifically (or in more detail) what I meant by 1 year ahead, which isn't much in the NFL as teams can be built on the fly (relatively speaking) if they are really, really smart and good in their scouting. Can I see a point in saying that it's close? Sure, I can see it. That sort of ties in with

- Both teams have a lot of young talent on the rosters. It's possible that guys take major steps next year, which could reshape things (thus, maybe Little takes another step. Maybe Sheard continues to dominate, and enhancing his overall game. Perhaps one of the young DB's take another step to shore things up in the secondary a tick more). But, that works for both teams, offensively and defensively. I mean, there's some intrigue with Willie Smith and Maurice Hurt, and while the Skins are unlikely to give the job to either of them, it wouldn't surprise me if one of them won a starting job on merit next year (Smith moreso than Hurt). Hankerson and Niles Paul were impressing in practice, IIRC. Not enough to take away the need for WR, but enough that they could step forward.


_________

As a separate point, I'd note that the Redskins spending in FA this off-season, if they choose to, doesn't make it so that they aren't building the right way, or being overly aggressive and not building through the draft. FA should be used to enhance the roster and fill in a couple key needs (I mean, looking at what are considered, "key" positions, the Redskins have two "key" spots where they have needs - WR and CB. FS and RT typically aren't viewed in that high of a spectrum, although in the modern passing league, that may be a separate point to debate). Actually, signing said veteran WR, which many anticipate, is arguably a move for the future as much as it is for the present, since the purpose is as much to help a young QB develop as it is to win now.
toonsterwu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2012, 07:14 PM    (permalink
Clarkw267
Rookie
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 416
Reputation: 20730
Clarkw267 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Clarkw267 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Clarkw267 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Clarkw267 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Clarkw267 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Clarkw267 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Clarkw267 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Clarkw267 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Clarkw267 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Clarkw267 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Clarkw267 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolidGold View Post
I can't really blame the browns for not outbidding the skins. The Terry Pluto article someone posted earlier was a good read and I tend to agree with it. The Browns managed to keep all their picks and can continue to build through the draft. It will be interesting to see what the Browns do in free agency - do they go after Flynn? Will they go after anyone to help the right side of the o-line? The Browns have decent complimentary offensive weapons and just need a few impact players.


The Browns are a younger team, the Steelers purged quite a few veterans and are going through a change at o-coordinator and might be without Mike Wallace. Guys like Ziggy Hood and Heyward will be counted on to fill voids at DE, will Casey Hampton be back? Their offensive line is perennially terrible. The Ravens are also a veteran laden team whose window is closing some - Ray Lewis, Ed Reed, Matt Birk (if he comes back), Jarret Johnson, Anquan Boldin are on the wrong side of 30. Cincinatti seems to have a young solid core. In a year or two it could be the Browns/Bengals at the top of the division while the Steelers/Ravens are retooling.


Personally I believe the Redskins paid to much for the pick but now the pressure is on them to win and win next season with a rookie qb in a divsion with the Eagles/Giants/Cowboys.
Why is there pressure for the Skins to win next season with a rookie QB? That doesn't make sense. If anything it buys the front office and coach some time to develop the guy.

For anybody saying that the Browns are "building through the draft" ... what are they building? Colt McCoy is awful. I'm sorry, but he just is. And they had a chance to get an elite level prospect to build around, and they blew it. I'd bet just about anything that the Redskins get to the playoffs before the Browns despite paying what some call "a huge price" to get Griffin.
Clarkw267 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2012, 07:16 PM    (permalink
SuperPacker
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: awkward
Posts: 11,054
Reputation: 2237213
SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarkw267 View Post
Why is there pressure for the Skins to win next season with a rookie QB? That doesn't make sense. If anything it buys the front office and coach some time to develop the guy.

For anybody saying that the Browns are "building through the draft" ... what are they building? Colt McCoy is awful. I'm sorry, but he just is. And they had a chance to get an elite level prospect to build around, and they blew it. I'd bet just about anything that the Redskins get to the playoffs before the Browns despite paying what some call "a huge price" to get Griffin.
Hahaha this is spot on!
__________________



RIP themaninblack
SuperPacker is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:34 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.