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Old 03-22-2012, 05:59 PM    (permalink
SenorGato
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Originally Posted by niel89 View Post
Yeah that 4.38 at the combine is what made him stand out like crazy. No TE ran at that speed. Davis is only 6'3" though and he wasn't a good blocker either coming into the NFL.
Now he's one of the better ones out there. I think Fleener would be a willing blocker, and from there it's a matter of strength/power and technique.
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Old 03-22-2012, 06:17 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
That's Vernon Davis territory. I wonder which team ends up drafting him??
Pro Day times are a bit inflated. I'll say Fleener is a legit 4.5 guy. He's more like Greg Olsen(4.51)/Tony Scheffler(4.54) territory. He's probably closer to Greg Olsen, though, who went 31st pick in 2007.
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Old 03-22-2012, 07:08 PM    (permalink
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As far as him being one-dimensional, I'm not overly concerned. With the way NFL teams are starting to use tight ends, blocking is becoming somewhat of a luxary. Aaron Hernandez and JerMichael Finley are both poor blockers and guys like Jimmy Graham and Rob Gronkowski are pretty good blockers, but rarely asked to. When you have a 6'6" 245 4.45 target, you're going to want him catching balls and not blocking.
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Old 03-22-2012, 07:42 PM    (permalink
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Glad people have finally noticed what Pac-12 fans have been saying all along - he's an awesome player. Top 20 on my big board.
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Old 03-22-2012, 08:07 PM    (permalink
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Not that I think we'll definitely take Fleener if available but Martellus wouldn't stand in the way. He is only signed to a 1 year deal and we still a second TE.
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Old 03-22-2012, 10:22 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by norcalgsr View Post
Pro Day times are a bit inflated. I'll say Fleener is a legit 4.5 guy. He's more like Greg Olsen(4.51)/Tony Scheffler(4.54) territory. He's probably closer to Greg Olsen, though, who went 31st pick in 2007.
so does what does that make Kendall Wright's 4.45 time? 4.5 as well?

I think one thing people forget with 40 times is, its literally 40 yards. They see a guy get caught from behind failing to make the td after a big catch and run and think he must have a slower 40, but its literally 40 yards, not 70, 60, 50 etc.
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Old 03-23-2012, 12:55 PM    (permalink
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so does what does that make Kendall Wright's 4.45 time? 4.5 as well?

I think one thing people forget with 40 times is, its literally 40 yards. They see a guy get caught from behind failing to make the td after a big catch and run and think he must have a slower 40, but its literally 40 yards, not 70, 60, 50 etc.
Kendall Wright didn't get a good start and didn't have good form. If you watched video of his runs, you will see this. Wright is legit 4.45 because I calculated it myself by measuring when he extended his back foot, instead of when he lifts his hand. Let me know when you find a video of Fleener from his Pro Day.

The NFL Combine apparently thinks they should add in reaction time to the 40 with their flawed timing method.

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Old 03-23-2012, 02:06 PM    (permalink
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I really want Fleener at 30. I hope he falls to our pick.
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Old 03-23-2012, 07:02 PM    (permalink
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If the Phins traded down, I would not mind him somewhere in the late teens. I've always been a HUGE fan. Top 8 is just a little too high.
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Old 03-23-2012, 07:50 PM    (permalink
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Could Coby Fleener play WR in the NFL?
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Old 03-23-2012, 08:20 PM    (permalink
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Could Coby Fleener play WR in the NFL?
Yes....in the same way Jermichael Finely could be/is.
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Old 03-23-2012, 09:22 PM    (permalink
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Bradford would love this guy like he loved Gresham at OU. I hope he falls to #33
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Old 03-23-2012, 09:38 PM    (permalink
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Could Coby Fleener play WR in the NFL?
Yes, Calvin Johnson is 6-5, 235. And Fleener is every bit as fluid.
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Old 03-23-2012, 09:42 PM    (permalink
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Yes....in the same way Jermichael Finely could be/is.
No, Finley is a plodder (4.66 at Pro Day) and not the freak athlete Fleener is. Finley didn't dominate in college either.
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Old 03-24-2012, 01:14 AM    (permalink
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Yes....in the same way Jermichael Finely could be/is.
More like Jimmy Graham.

Here's the physical comparisons. Seem like similar cases where you're projecting a rare athlete as a matchup problem, because he has skills and size that others simply don't have. Fleener wasn't hugely productive in college, so he's got that workout warrior vibe to me. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing - Graham, the guy I'm comparing him to, is the poster child for that.

Fleener: 6'6" 250 - Graham: 6'6" 260

Fleener: 37" vert - Graham: 38" vert

Fleener: 4.50 - Graham: 4.50

Fleener: 9'8" broad jump - Graham: 10'00" broad jump

Pretty similar. Pretty impressive. But I've said it before - Fleener is totally a receiver to me. He's really not even built like a tight end, more a Matt Jones-type freak athlete. He's pretty lean, and doesn't have a proportionally huge frame... it's just that anyone who's 6'6" is going to have a huge frame compared to anyone else. So as long as teams are understanding that they're drafting purely for receiving production, he is a pretty interesting player, and I'm starting to think that he probably is going to go first round. There's going to be really high demand for the next Gronk/Graham, and Fleener fits that profile.
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Old 03-24-2012, 03:14 AM    (permalink
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If Fleener can play like Graham can, he will definitely be able to clean up in the red zone. I'm thinking early 2nd round for him.
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Old 03-24-2012, 03:29 AM    (permalink
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I'm a big Stanford fan, so I saw a lot of Fleener over the years. I see him as a young Jason Witten as a receiver. In terms of blocking, I don't think it's necessarily his strong suit, but he's good enough at it that you won't have to take him off the field in obvious running situations. He'll provide some value there. His real skill, though, is going to be as a red zone target. He's a guy who really seems to have a knack for finding soft spots in coverage, then squaring his shoulders and using his big frame and height to box out defenders and go up for the ball. Should be a real weapon down around the goal line. And his speed is good enough to stretch the field a bit from anywhere.

The only real negative to him, I would say, is that he did have a tendency to get a little dinged up and miss some games here and there in college. It wasn't like it was the same injury over and over or anything, and I definitely wouldn't question his toughness, so you just have to wonder if maybe he's a little more injury prone than some. Of course, it could've just been bad luck and this may all be nitpicking.
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Old 03-24-2012, 07:53 AM    (permalink
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Yes, Calvin Johnson is 6-5, 235. And Fleener is every bit as fluid.
Please, come on man... Fleener is nowhere near the athlete that CJ is. CJ ran a 4.35 in borrowed cleats and had a 42.5 inch vertical. For his size he's quite possibly among the world's best athletes. Fleener is a long way from that. I'm a big fan of Fleener, but everybody was screaming that he was the third TE in the class before the Combine. And now that he finally worked out people are jumping on the band wagon? Give me a break. It's the same **** every year. I've had Fleener in the bottom first round since autumn and nothing's going to change that. But he's definitely not a world class athlete. It's an insult to CJ to suggest that they're similar.
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Old 03-24-2012, 09:56 AM    (permalink
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No, Finley is a plodder (4.66 at Pro Day) and not the freak athlete Fleener is. Finley didn't dominate in college either.
Jermichael Finley isn't a plodder. If you try to cover him with someone other than a safety/corner, he's going to destroy you on passing downs. Again, IMO this is another example of people thinking that a player who runs a 4.6, especially a 'TE', is by definition slow or can't explode in and out of cuts.

Witten and Finley had roughly the same 40 time as pro prospects, but their game speed is totally different. Witten is not a deep threat the way Finley is, that's why you can't really form a solid opinion on a prospect without watching game tape.

Fleener IMO is a hybrid player; technically he has the athleticism and tools to play WR, the same way that Jimmy Graham/Vernon Davis/Olsen do, but they offer more to an offense by being able to play in tight on the LOS.

At some point in the first round Fleener is going to come off the board because he's the BPA. If your team doesn't have a playmaker at TE, they need one. That's Coby Fleener.
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Old 03-24-2012, 11:45 AM    (permalink
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You can always teach someone how to block. Especially if they're a willing blocker like Fleener is.

He probably plays slower than he timed, but he's a solid late 1st rounder to me now. 6 7", polished, smart, hard worker, good hands, good route running, willing blocker, great speed, I don't see what's not to like.

Before his 40 time, I didn't want him bc I thought it was a reach. But with 4.5 speed, now I know he can stretch the seam and he's worth a 1st rounder.

I don't get Mayock's take that he's not that great he's not a 1st round TE.

Well Gronk and Graham were 2nd and 3rd round picks, and they're the best TEs in the league. Mayock is putting too much stock in blocking. He had Pettigrew has a 1st rounder bc he blocks well. Who would you rather have, Graham or Pettigrew?
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Old 03-24-2012, 12:38 PM    (permalink
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Shockey was a terrible blocker when he came into the NFL but Pope turned him around in 2 years and became a great blocking TE. Fleener has the tools to become a very good blocker also with the right coaching.
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Old 03-24-2012, 12:48 PM    (permalink
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You can always teach blocking. You can't teach 6 7" or 4.5 40 times.
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Old 03-24-2012, 03:07 PM    (permalink
norcalgsr
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
You can always teach blocking. You can't teach 6 7" or 4.5 40 times.
Let's not forget he put up 27 bench reps, as well, so we know he has the strength, just needs to refine technique.
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Old 03-24-2012, 04:21 PM    (permalink
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Let's not forget he put up 27 bench reps, as well, so we know he has the strength, just needs to refine technique.
I agree, that he will have a learning curve when it comes to blocking but that wouldn't be his primary function in most offenses. In an offseason he can easily put on 10-15 lbs of good weight and be ready to chip DE's all day long.

Im getting pretty beat up in my own forum, but I wouldnt mind a trade down in the 20's and scoop Fleener up to pair with Witten. He is an absolute mismatch anywhen you put him and is an immediate asset in the red zone.
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Old 03-24-2012, 06:06 PM    (permalink
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Its not like Fleener was a major liability in the run game or something. He was good not great in college and will be average at first in the pros but will develop into a solid blocker. He isn't a guy that absolutely has to be taken out on running down.
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