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Old 03-19-2012, 02:51 AM    (permalink
Razor
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Originally Posted by 49erNation85 View Post
Yea good luck Seattle while you have Flynn.The 49ers will hopefully have Manning ...
Well, it seems like it's pretty much Manning or bust for the 49ers at this point. They've obviously alienated Smith who's discussing contract with Miami. If Manning goes to Denver you're pretty much stuck with starting Kapernick. This is a huge mistake by the 49ers and it seems like they think they're done rebuilding when the reality is that they've just started. Getting vets like Moss and Manning is something to do when you're consistently a contender with a team consisting of core players, not old players past their prime. I fail to see how anything the 49ers have done this offseason will help them improve as a team (maybe Moss).
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Old 03-19-2012, 02:58 AM    (permalink
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Well, it seems like it's pretty much Manning or bust for the 49ers at this point. They've obviously alienated Smith who's discussing contract with Miami. If Manning goes to Denver you're pretty much stuck with starting Kapernick. This is a huge mistake by the 49ers and it seems like they think they're done rebuilding when the reality is that they've just started. Getting vets like Moss and Manning is something to do when you're consistently a contender with a team consisting of core players, not old players past their prime. I fail to see how anything the 49ers have done this offseason will help them improve as a team (maybe Moss).
To their credit, re-signing Carlos Rogers and bringing in Cox makes their entire defensive unit one of the deepest and most talented in the league. Otherwise, just keeping the rest of the team together is doing more than enough to improve it. If they pull off the Manning signing no one will notice what almost was and they're immediate SB contenders (get the Peyton/Eli NFCCG hype-wagon started..) because they upgraded so greatly at QB and didn't get worse anywhere else. If Manning signs in Tennessee or Denver, It's Kaepernick or David Garrard. Truly do or die. But, for all we know Kaepernick can handle managing that offense with Moss/Manningham outside and Crabtree/Davis inside, a dual-threat running game with Gore/Hunter and top-3 defensive unit. We've seen lower-ceiling QBs do it (Alex Smith).

Of course this all still hinges on Alex Smith signing in Miami, but after he visits and then you hear he's being offered $8m/yr after being low-balled by SF it's almost a done deal, unless he truly wants to go back to SF and is gaining all the leverage he can get. He'd be smart to not sign with Miami but keep it as close to a done-deal as possible, hoping Manning doesn't sign with SF and he suddenly gets a huge offer from them.


Actually, weren't there a lot of rumblings about Josh Johnson to San Francisco? Would that pretty much be worth a 2nd day pick if they fail to land both Peyton and Smith? And then what about Tannehill - KC?

Not trying to get too far off topic from Flynn, but his signing is the precursor to all of these other scenarios anyway.

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Old 03-19-2012, 03:09 AM    (permalink
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The thing about their defense to me is that they were so good last year (like 2007 NE offense good) on defense that I would almost characterize that as a perfect storm for them. To be able to do all that again, getting favorable bounces, dominant performances from pretty much everyone in the front seven etc is going to be so hard. Dashon Goldson had a career year the season after they were willing to let him go in FA. He almost signed with NE but took a cheap 1-year deal instead. Carlos Rogers has never been so good as he was last year. It's not a given that they'll be able to be as dominant as they were last season on defense again. And it seems like the 49ers organization is taking that as a given instead of trying to keep building and increasing the floor of the team instead of constantly trying to increase the ceiling. You need to do both to sustain success in the NFL.
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Old 03-19-2012, 03:11 AM    (permalink
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Josh Johnson's a free agent, I'm pretty sure he will be on speed dial in case both Alex Smith and Manning say no. If Manning ends up in Tenn., and Hasselbeck gets released I wouldnt be surprised to see the 49ers pursue him. They had a ton of interest in him last year as well and maybe except Cleveland there wouldn't be any team seriously pursuing him.
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Old 03-19-2012, 03:15 AM    (permalink
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The thing about their defense to me is that they were so good last year (like 2007 NE offense good) on defense that I would almost characterize that as a perfect storm for them. To be able to do all that again, getting favorable bounces, dominant performances from pretty much everyone in the front seven etc is going to be so hard. Dashon Goldson had a career year the season after they were willing to let him go in FA. He almost signed with NE but took a cheap 1-year deal instead. Carlos Rogers has never been so good as he was last year. It's not a given that they'll be able to be as dominant as they were last season on defense again. And it seems like the 49ers organization is taking that as a given instead of trying to keep building and increasing the floor of the team instead of constantly trying to increase the ceiling. You need to do both to sustain success in the NFL.

I agree to an extent but their defensive dominance can be sustained. This is a unit that went more than half the year without allowing a rushing touchdown. I do agree that Goldson and Rogers aren't as good as they seem, but it's no coincidence that they're both defensive backs on the unit with the best front 7 in the league last year. Whitner and Tarell Brown looked better than ever too, or just weren't exposed as often. Unless the front seven is hit with the injury bug next year I don't see why they can't be at least almost as good, and they were great.

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Josh Johnson's a free agent, I'm pretty sure he will be on speed dial in case both Alex Smith and Manning say no. If Manning ends up in Tenn., and Hasselbeck gets released I wouldnt be surprised to see the 49ers pursue him. They had a ton of interest in him last year as well and maybe except Cleveland there wouldn't be any team seriously pursuing him.

That's right, I completely forgot he was a free agent because he was always involved in trade rumors the last few years. Forget about having him on speed dial, he's probably camping out in the room next to the press conference

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Old 03-19-2012, 03:16 AM    (permalink
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Well, it seems like it's pretty much Manning or bust for the 49ers at this point. They've obviously alienated Smith who's discussing contract with Miami. If Manning goes to Denver you're pretty much stuck with starting Kapernick. This is a huge mistake by the 49ers and it seems like they think they're done rebuilding when the reality is that they've just started. Getting vets like Moss and Manning is something to do when you're consistently a contender with a team consisting of core players, not old players past their prime. I fail to see how anything the 49ers have done this offseason will help them improve as a team (maybe Moss).
Well having Manningham and Moss as your starters is better than Josh Morgan and Michael Cratree. Moss is up there in age, but I think he'll play with some motivation, at least for some time.

In regards to Peyton Manning, he contacted the 49ers reportedly. The 49ers were at a standstill with Alex Smith and his contract talks. No one really knows why there were delays, but Jed York (49ers president) said about a week ago that the ball was essentially in his court. He just hasn't signed the deal, which was apparently around the one Flynn just got.

The 49ers didn't entertain any other free agent quarterbacks. But when Peyton Manning calls and shows interest, and you don't have a starter on the roster and the guy you had as your starter isn't signing the deal that is on the table, it would be stupid not to at least have him workout for you.
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Old 03-19-2012, 06:32 AM    (permalink
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Josh Johnson's a free agent, I'm pretty sure he will be on speed dial in case both Alex Smith and Manning say no. If Manning ends up in Tenn., and Hasselbeck gets released I wouldnt be surprised to see the 49ers pursue him. They had a ton of interest in him last year as well and maybe except Cleveland there wouldn't be any team seriously pursuing him.
Josh Johnson hasn't done anything to warrant consideration as a starting QB in the league. I don't get the hype. Sure he played for Haurbaugh in college but in his limited playing time in the NFL he has been uneven at best.
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Old 03-19-2012, 07:09 AM    (permalink
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Josh Johnson hasn't done anything to warrant consideration as a starting QB in the league. I don't get the hype. Sure he played for Haurbaugh in college but in his limited playing time in the NFL he has been uneven at best.
He knows Harbaugh's offense though. So he'd be a last resort. The 49ers would probably go after Hasselback first if Peyton signs with Tennesee and Smith signs with the Dolphins. But if Peyton signs with the Bronocs and Smith signs with the Dolphins, I think that is the only real chance that Johnson will get with the 49ers.
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Old 03-19-2012, 10:06 AM    (permalink
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The common thought is that if the 49ers lose out on BOTH Manning and Alex Smith...

Colin Kaepernick will also have Mike Wallace to throw to.
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Old 03-19-2012, 10:13 AM    (permalink
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Peter King speculated that with no basis.

And it also makes no sense whatsoever. WTF is the point of having Wallace, Crabtree, Manningham, Moss, and Vernon Davis with Josh Johnson or Kap as the QB?

The team is committed to running the ball. There's no reason they'd spend all that money on all those WRs.
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Old 03-19-2012, 10:13 AM    (permalink
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The common thought is that if the 49ers lose out on BOTH Manning and Alex Smith...

Colin Kaepernick will also have Mike Wallace to throw to.
Yeah I doubt they want to spend all the money in WRs and then give up their first round pick. But hey it's always nice to dream.
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Old 03-19-2012, 10:18 AM    (permalink
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The team is committed to running the ball. There's no reason they'd spend all that money on all those WRs.
You could make the exact argument about spending $100 Million dollars on Peyton Manning.
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Old 03-19-2012, 10:21 AM    (permalink
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You could make the exact argument about spending $100 Million dollars on Peyton Manning.
No you couldn't. Peyton Manning can single-handedly change an offense for the better.

Adding a 4th starting-caliber receiver for huge money AND a first-round pick to play with a QB who isn't best suited to throw 40 times a game is a misuse of resources.

The two aren't comparable at all.
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Old 03-19-2012, 10:24 AM    (permalink
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No you couldn't. Peyton Manning can single-handedly change an offense for the better.

Adding a 4th starting-caliber receiver for huge money AND a first-round pick to play with a QB who isn't best suited to throw 40 times a game is a misuse of resources.

The two aren't comparable at all.
Theyre comparable in the fact that neither compliment the thought that they are committed to running the ball.

And relax. It's Peter King. Let me know the next time he's right about something.
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Old 03-19-2012, 12:39 PM    (permalink
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The thing about their defense to me is that they were so good last year (like 2007 NE offense good) on defense that I would almost characterize that as a perfect storm for them. To be able to do all that again, getting favorable bounces, dominant performances from pretty much everyone in the front seven etc is going to be so hard. Dashon Goldson had a career year the season after they were willing to let him go in FA. He almost signed with NE but took a cheap 1-year deal instead. Carlos Rogers has never been so good as he was last year. It's not a given that they'll be able to be as dominant as they were last season on defense again. And it seems like the 49ers organization is taking that as a given instead of trying to keep building and increasing the floor of the team instead of constantly trying to increase the ceiling. You need to do both to sustain success in the NFL.


I hate when people keep saying this. If it was the Steelers or the Ravens everyone would assume that it would just automatically keep ticking but because it's the Niners all of the sudden they are just going to go from an elite defense to average? Sorry I don't buy it. There are more variables to show they will get better this year then worse. They actually get an off-season together, they return all 11 starters, Aldon Smith will have an expanded role, etc.


What exactly are they Niners taking for granted or how are they acting like it's a given? It's not like they are trying to plug in 4-5 guys on the D that hope play just as good, unless they suffer a huge injury this D is going to be lights out still and other then assuming or hoping there isn't much to state otherwise.


I remember when the Saints made their SB run a few years ago, almost all of those turnovers seemed sheer luck, the ball bouncing their way, etc. That's not the case for the Niners, just playing sound defense to force the other team to punt and playing field position isn't luck. The fact that the entire defense hits like they are on steroids and every single one of them knowing how to strip the ball out upon impact isn't luck.


Obviously things can change and they could have a big drop off, but there is no evidence to show that.
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Old 03-19-2012, 08:44 PM    (permalink
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I dont really understand why teams get so giddy over backup Quarterbacks Like Kolb, Whitehurst and now Flynn. Unless it's a backup with multiple starts and a guy thats actually proven himself in the league there is NO way I'm giving anyone a multi-year deal to be the starter of my franchise.

I mean what has Flynn done to change everyones opinion from the day he was selected in the 7th round to today? besides start two games on a LOADED packers team?
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Old 03-19-2012, 09:05 PM    (permalink
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I hate when people keep saying this. If it was the Steelers or the Ravens everyone would assume that it would just automatically keep ticking but because it's the Niners all of the sudden they are just going to go from an elite defense to average? Sorry I don't buy it. There are more variables to show they will get better this year then worse. They actually get an off-season together, they return all 11 starters, Aldon Smith will have an expanded role, etc.
This is something I'm noticing about the entire 49ers too. People are acting like the 49ers are going to fall back down to earth next season. They played really good football last season with a new coach and a short offseason. Granted they played a easier schedule last season but they still went 13-3 with the same team that has been average in past seasons. The offense will continue to get better under Harbaugh, especially with additional help outside. The team didn't get to the NFCCG by accident. They are going to continue to fill the roster with Harbaugh type players and get better.
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Old 03-19-2012, 09:21 PM    (permalink
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I hate when people keep saying this. If it was the Steelers or the Ravens everyone would assume that it would just automatically keep ticking but because it's the Niners all of the sudden they are just going to go from an elite defense to average? Sorry I don't buy it. There are more variables to show they will get better this year then worse. They actually get an off-season together, they return all 11 starters, Aldon Smith will have an expanded role, etc.
The 49ers went from below average to elite in a single season, it's not that hard to imaging the pendulum swinging back again. Their defense has slowly been getting better, and it finally hit that elite status this season. It's very possible for them to stay elite or even get better. But it's also possible that Alex Smith turns the ball over more often, the defense gets worn out and ultimately looks a lot worse.

The Steelers and Ravens have had a good defense every year for the last 10 years. It's not a fluke for them and that's why everyone expects it.
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Old 03-19-2012, 09:23 PM    (permalink
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I dont really understand why teams get so giddy over backup Quarterbacks Like Kolb, Whitehurst and now Flynn. Unless it's a backup with multiple starts and a guy thats actually proven himself in the league there is NO way I'm giving anyone a multi-year deal to be the starter of my franchise.

I mean what has Flynn done to change everyones opinion from the day he was selected in the 7th round to today? besides start two games on a LOADED packers team?
It's not like Flynn's deal is crazy outrageous like Kolb's deal. Its a solid deal for both sides to see how good Flynn really is. Flynn looked great in his limited time compared to Kolb.

You can't just completely disregard Flynn's career. The guy came in as a 7th rounder and beat out a 2nd rounder immediately. He has had a couple years to sit and learned behind a great QB with good coaching at a franchise know for developing solid QBs. The fact that he survived on the roster as a 7th rounder, became a stable backup, & then performed excellent when he had a chance says that he isn't the 7th rounder he started off as. Yes the offense is loaded but he still went out there and threw 6 TDs and went 31/44. I'm not saying he deserves a mega contract, but he is worth of a decent deal and a chance to show a team what he is now.
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Old 03-20-2012, 02:48 AM    (permalink
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The third year has zero guaranteed money. So after year 2 he gets an extension or gets cut basically. Most likely, they will mortgage their future for a QB next draft and Flynn is just a better bridge quarterback than Tarvaris.
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Old 03-20-2012, 06:25 AM    (permalink
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I think Flynn has a chance to be a good player. That Packers team was loaded, but at the same time in both of the starts he's had he's played fairly well. Seahawks could have found their true quarterback.
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Old 03-20-2012, 06:56 AM    (permalink
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I think Flynn will have a solid season even if he isn't a franchise QB. I'm definitely in the minority based on everything I've read from anyone talking about Seattle, but I think that their team is a lot better off in terms of skill position players than people give them credit for everywhere outside of having a good #2 receiver. I'm probably the biggest non Gamecock homer Sidney Rice fan there is though, and I'm expecting him to come back in a big way now that he'll be completely healthy and have a training camp in Seattle with at least a better QB than Jackson throwing to him. Baldwin should continue to be a great player out of the slot, Miller is a reliable tight end no matter how you use him, and Lynch has some solid receiving ability as well. The Seahawks should also be able to run a lot of succesful play action with Lynch being priority number one for every defense that they play too.
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Old 03-20-2012, 07:06 AM    (permalink
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I think Flynn has a chance to be a good player. That Packers team was loaded, but at the same time in both of the starts he's had he's played fairly well. Seahawks could have found their true quarterback.
I agree. I think the Seahawks offense has pretty good talent as well. The only thing I would give the edge to in terms of offense (besides A-Rod) is the WRs but not by a big margin.

The Seahawks are also dedicated to running the ball which will help Flynn. Miller is much better than any TE on the Packers roster.
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Old 03-20-2012, 07:21 AM    (permalink
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I dont really understand why teams get so giddy over backup Quarterbacks Like Kolb, Whitehurst and now Flynn. Unless it's a backup with multiple starts and a guy thats actually proven himself in the league there is NO way I'm giving anyone a multi-year deal to be the starter of my franchise.
There is more than games to evaluate, practice, development, etc. GB vouched for his development and probably allowed some practice film of Flynn to get out there to help him out.
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Old 03-20-2012, 02:22 PM    (permalink
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The third year has zero guaranteed money. So after year 2 he gets an extension or gets cut basically. Most likely, they will mortgage their future for a QB next draft and Flynn is just a better bridge quarterback than Tarvaris.
This. I think Flynn can do for the team what Hasselbeck did and as you say they can cut ties after a couple of years if they need too.

I wouldnt be shocked if they brought in a Brock Osweiler if he was there 3rd round or later. Let him develope under Flynn and if nothing else you've seriously upgraded your QB situation.
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