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Old 04-05-2012, 09:33 AM    (permalink
phlysac
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Originally Posted by Complex View Post
Yeah the ACL part is probably the only bad part. The concussion stuff could be from 2 years ago before anyone cared about concussions. I heard worst from my Pop-Warner coach.
This is audio from before the NFC Divisional Playoff game.
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Old 04-05-2012, 09:34 AM    (permalink
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Meh.

Welcome to the harsh reality of an NFL lockerroom. Many players have said that the public doesn't want to know or hear what's said behind closed doors. We got a taste of it with this clip.

I'm sure some of us here have sat in defensive meetings where we've heard similar language. I never heard a coach say go after his ACL or his concussion, but I have heard guys say knock him the F out. That's nothing new.
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Old 04-05-2012, 09:34 AM    (permalink
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That entire thing was from before the Saints/49ers playoff game this year.
I thought it was edited from previous games. W/e.
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Old 04-05-2012, 09:36 AM    (permalink
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I'm not saying Greg Williams is right or anything...but i AM saying that as a whole the media and fans are taking this out of context and acting like these actions were done in a regular scenario, which they very clearly weren't. If you don't believe that a good chunk of coaches don't talk similar to that then you are in for a hard truth.
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Old 04-05-2012, 09:38 AM    (permalink
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Meh.

Welcome to the harsh reality of an NFL lockerroom. Many players have said that the public doesn't want to know or hear what's said behind closed doors. We got a taste of it with this clip.

I'm sure some of us here have sat in defensive meetings where we've heard similar language. I never heard a coach say go after his ACL or his concussion, but I have heard guys say knock him the F out. That's nothing new.
This is exactly what I'm trying to say. My coaches told me to hit what I saw and see what I hit. But damn-it-all when I hit them I was supposed to hit them as hard and aggressive as I humanly could, every single mother ******* play. If a player got hurt, or if I got hurt, then it's just a part of the GAME we are playing.
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Old 04-05-2012, 09:39 AM    (permalink
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People seem to be reacting to two different issues:

1. The "kill the head and the body will die" type of rhetoric. This is common at all levels of play, probably in any team sport.

2. Targeting specific players for past injuries (Williams head, Crabtrees ACL, Davis's ankle). I'm looking forward to seeing the reaction from present and past NFL players on this issue. Darren Woodson has has already said that this is not the norm in the NFL, and that it crosses a line. I'm sure that other players will chime in over the next few days.

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Old 04-05-2012, 09:40 AM    (permalink
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I'm not saying Greg Williams is right or anything...but i AM saying that as a whole the media and fans are taking this out of context and acting like these actions were done in a regular scenario, which they very clearly weren't. If you don't believe that a good chunk of coaches don't talk similar to that then you are in for a hard truth.
Completely ******* irrelevant. I've been saying it all the long and people keep ******* insisting on using that ******* argument.

"Everyone does it" is not an excuse anywhere for any god damn thing. Courts don't buy that argument when you get into trouble for doing something "everyone does." The NFL will be no different.

The factors that make this situation worse are:

The NFL told the Saints to stop doing this and the Saints kept doing it.

The Saints lied to the NFL investigators who were investigating the situation.

The NFL is currently facing a number of lawsuits from former players in regards the NFL's handling of concussions and that number grows seemingly by the day. Anytime any coach talks about attacking a player with a concussion, it's going to be dealt with harshly from here on out.
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Old 04-05-2012, 09:42 AM    (permalink
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This is exactly what I'm trying to say. My coaches told me to hit what I saw and see what I hit. But damn-it-all when I hit them I was supposed to hit them as hard and aggressive as I humanly could, every single mother ******* play. If a player got hurt, or if I got hurt, then it's just a part of the GAME we are playing.
Yup. Hit first, ask questions later. I think almost every defensive coach taught that.

As a safety, it was basically my job to defend the middle of the field. If I wasn't laying guys out I'd hear about it. My coach couldn't care less if our heads collided. Knock him the F out. And if you don't, your backup will.

I wonder what ppl would say about Ronnie Lott if he played today.
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Old 04-05-2012, 09:43 AM    (permalink
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I'm not saying Greg Williams is right or anything...but i AM saying that as a whole the media and fans are taking this out of context and acting like these actions were done in a regular scenario, which they very clearly weren't. If you don't believe that a good chunk of coaches don't talk similar to that then you are in for a hard truth.
Why do all of you guys just ignore the fact that he had been warned about "Bounties" and now he's telling his players to take out ACL's and hit the QB in the head all while making the "cash" motions with his fingers???

Attaching money to injury is SPECIFICALLY what this is about.
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Old 04-05-2012, 09:44 AM    (permalink
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Completely ******* irrelevant. I've been saying it all the long and people keep ******* insisting on using that ******* argument.

"Everyone does it" is not an excuse anywhere for any god damn thing. Courts don't buy that argument when you get into trouble for doing something "everyone does." The NFL will be no different.

The factors that make this situation worse are:

The NFL told the Saints to stop doing this and the Saints kept doing it.

The Saints lied to the NFL investigators who were investigating the situation.

The NFL is currently facing a number of lawsuits from former players in regards the NFL's handling of concussions and that number grows seemingly by the day. Anytime any coach talks about attacking a player with a concussion, it's going to be dealt with harshly from here on out.
It doesn't make it right. I'm saying why parts of it doesn't bother me personally and why i think the media and fans are freaking out and over-reacting about certain parts of this pregame speech as well as taking them somewhat out of context.
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Old 04-05-2012, 09:45 AM    (permalink
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I'm not saying Greg Williams is right or anything...but i AM saying that as a whole the media and fans are taking this out of context and acting like these actions were done in a regular scenario, which they very clearly weren't. If you don't believe that a good chunk of coaches don't talk similar to that then you are in for a hard truth.
Quoted for truth.
As a coach at the middle school level, I tell young players that they need to hit the other team so hard "they go back to their coach and say they don't want to play anymore". I tell them to make hits that "light a player up", that if they are the second tackler to hit the ball or tackle the thighs. This is football and it is a contact sport. I never advocate purposefully injuring someone, but I know that if I wear your ass out and demoralize you, I stand a better chance of winning. If you think that from the Middle school level up, that coaches and players do not see it as an in-game mission, to ring the opponents proverbial bell, you may be a fan of the wrong sport - hula-hoop, checkers, and tiddly-winks is down the hall.
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Old 04-05-2012, 09:46 AM    (permalink
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Completely ******* irrelevant. I've been saying it all the long and people keep ******* insisting on using that ******* argument.

"Everyone does it" is not an excuse anywhere for any god damn thing. Courts don't buy that argument when you get into trouble for doing something "everyone does." The NFL will be no different.

The factors that make this situation worse are:

The NFL told the Saints to stop doing this and the Saints kept doing it.

The Saints lied to the NFL investigators who were investigating the situation.

The NFL is currently facing a number of lawsuits from former players in regards the NFL's handling of concussions and that number grows seemingly by the day. Anytime any coach talks about attacking a player with a concussion, it's going to be dealt with harshly from here on out.
I don't think anyone is arguing that the Saints shouldn't be punished, bc clearly they crossed the line bc they completely ignored the NFL front office.

But I think what ppl are saying, myself included is, the outrage that the public is displaying about this culture for a lack of better word is ridiculous. It's nothing singular to New Orleans, or nothing new.

The holier than thou attitude that some of these fans are displaying is ridiculous.
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Old 04-05-2012, 09:46 AM    (permalink
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Yup. Hit first, ask questions later. I think almost every defensive coach taught that.

As a safety, it was basically my job to defend the middle of the field. If I wasn't laying guys out I'd hear about it. My coach couldn't care less if our heads collided. Knock him the F out. And if you don't, your backup will.

I wonder what ppl would say about Ronnie Lott if he played today.
Ever have coaches tell you to take out an ACL or an ankle? All while making the "cash money" motion with their fingers?


Why are you guys that are defending the "Kill the head, body will die" metaphors and "knock him the F- out" rhetoric (I have no problem with that either) completely ignoring the fact that he specifically targeted specific areas of players body's while pro-offering a cash exchange for it?
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Old 04-05-2012, 09:46 AM    (permalink
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2. Targeting specific players for past injuries (Williams head, Crabtrees ACL, Davis's ankle). I'm looking forward to seeing the reaction from present and past NFL players on this issue. Darren Woodson has has already said that this is not the norm in the NFL, and that it crosses a line. I'm sure that other players will chime in over the next few days.
That is a bunch of BS. Every time a player is injured one of the analysis on ESPN/NFL network or w/e says the eagles are going to test out how sore Tony Romos ribs are or Chris Johnson's ankle.
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Old 04-05-2012, 09:46 AM    (permalink
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Yup. Hit first, ask questions later. I think almost every defensive coach taught that.

As a safety, it was basically my job to defend the middle of the field. If I wasn't laying guys out I'd hear about it. My coach couldn't care less if our heads collided. Knock him the F out. And if you don't, your backup will.

I wonder what ppl would say about Ronnie Lott if he played today.
I was thinking the same thing. Or guys like Dick "NightTrain" Lane. Or the Raiders safety who paralyzed a guy (and yes he didn't mean to do it but I've seen interviews where he has said he wasn't happy about it, but he was a legal hit in his mind). Think about guys even today, people really think Ray Lewis isn't barking out these types of things before the snap?
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Old 04-05-2012, 09:47 AM    (permalink
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********. Don't make this sound like I hate physical football because you all know that isn't ******* true.

The "everyone does it" excuse is ******** and you all know it. It's irrelevant.
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Old 04-05-2012, 09:49 AM    (permalink
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Why do all of you guys just ignore the fact that he had been warned about "Bounties" and now he's telling his players to take out ACL's and hit the QB in the head all while making the "cash" motions with his fingers???

Attaching money to injury is SPECIFICALLY what this is about.
Yes. So can the NFL please stop lying to me like they care about player safety and tell me to my face that the money aspect is what is really pissing them off. Cause for once a penny is being transacted in this league that they don't have their dirty ******* hands on. I know what the problem is, now I would just like ESPN and the NFL to quit trying to ******** me and everyone else.

Also i said that I did have an issue with his calls on Kyle Williams head and Crabtree's ankle, just not the "kill the head, the body will follow" talk.
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Old 04-05-2012, 09:51 AM    (permalink
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Yes. So can the NFL please stop lying to me like they care about player safety and tell me to my face that the money aspect is what is really pissing them off. Cause for once a penny is being transacted in this league that they don't have their dirty ******* hands on. I know what the problem is, now I would just like ESPN and the NFL to quit trying to ******** me and everyone else.
Money wouldn't be the only problem. Attaching it to an intent to injure is directly related to the exchange of money.
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Old 04-05-2012, 09:56 AM    (permalink
rockio42
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Also, BeerBaron. I have no problem with using the Saints as an example to change the form. I'm just trying to say that from my personal experience that that it is the norm and I'm getting pissed off about all these people who are acting like Greg Williams and the Saints are the only people to ever do this. Yes, punish them. Yes, they deserve it. But, lets not completely turn our heads to the idea that this very well (in at least the motivation aspect) is going on in a lot of locker rooms.
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Old 04-05-2012, 09:57 AM    (permalink
WCH
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Yes. So can the NFL please stop lying to me like they care about player safety and tell me to my face that the money aspect is what is really pissing them off. Cause for once a penny is being transacted in this league that they don't have their dirty ******* hands on. I know what the problem is, now I would just like ESPN and the NFL to quit trying to ******** me and everyone else.

Also i said that I did have an issue with his calls on Kyle Williams head and Crabtree's ankle, just not the "kill the head, the body will follow" talk.
I'd like Bloomberg and CNBC to speak honestly about Goldman Sachs. You know what? Neither is happening, ever.

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Old 04-05-2012, 09:58 AM    (permalink
rockio42
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Money wouldn't be the only problem. Attaching it to an intent to injure is directly related to the exchange of money.
Hmm I want to believe the NFL actually cares about player safety and maybe I'm just cynical but I firmly believe the money aspect is what is pissing them off. And the fan reaction that this kind of talk is so "unbelievable".
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Old 04-05-2012, 09:58 AM    (permalink
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Also, BeerBaron. I have no problem with using the Saints as an example to change the form. I'm just trying to say that from my personal experience that that it is the norm and I'm getting pissed off about all these people who are acting like Greg Williams and the Saints are the only people to ever do this. Yes, punish them. Yes, they deserve it. But, lets not completely turn our heads to the idea that this very well (in at least the motivation aspect) is going on in a lot of locker rooms.
And the NFL's intent with their harsh punishments is an attempt to end that practice.

In addition to no longer offering bounties, coaches should strike any references from attacking a player's head out of their rhetoric as well just in case someone has an audio device.
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Old 04-05-2012, 09:59 AM    (permalink
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I'd like Bloomberg and CNBC to speak honestly about Goldman Sachs. You know what? Neither is happening, ever.
HAHA, touche my friend. Ironically enough, I was actually thinking about that when I was typing that comment.
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Old 04-05-2012, 09:59 AM    (permalink
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Also, BeerBaron. I have no problem with using the Saints as an example to change the form. I'm just trying to say that from my personal experience that that it is the norm and I'm getting pissed off about all these people who are acting like Greg Williams and the Saints are the only people to ever do this. Yes, punish them. Yes, they deserve it. But, lets not completely turn our heads to the idea that this very well (in at least the motivation aspect) is going on in a lot of locker rooms.
I agree with you, but in the same respect, you can't ignore the fact that this is being said (along with insinuation that money will be rewarded for injury) after he had been interviewed by the NFL regarding it and denied it happening.
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Old 04-05-2012, 10:01 AM    (permalink
rockio42
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And the NFL's intent with their harsh punishments is an attempt to end that practice.

In addition to no longer offering bounties, coaches should strike any references from attacking a player's head out of their rhetoric as well just in case someone has an audio device.
No doubt. My point was simply was that I wasn't "appalled" by all of his pre-game speech and that the freak-out that ESPN is currently having about this video is just ridiculous.
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