Matt Forte

ChiFan24 · 03-22-2012, 08:31 PM

The Bears just signed Michael Bush, and the implication is that they're more than willing to play hardball with Forte since Bush has an every down skill set. According to his Twitter, Matt is pretty upset about the lack of respect. Was wondering what everyone thought about the situation.

Also, what could the Bears get in a trade? Would Cleveland give #22? Would Denver give #25? I'm not a running back guy, so I'd probably take either deal now that Bush in on the team (and then supplement him with a Pead/Turbin type), but I have no idea what the perception is on Forte.

Monomach · 03-22-2012, 08:36 PM

I don't think the Bears could get any more than a second and a fifth or sixth. It's going to take a DeAngelo Williams contract to sign him.

For my part, I'd happily take an early second, use that cap space on Demetrius Bell at LT, sign Ryan Grant, and roll with a three-headed (cheap) monster of Bush/Bell/Grant splitting carries.

VikesWookie · 03-22-2012, 08:40 PM

my guess is he takes his franchise tender money begrudgingly and again shows the team why he should have a longer term deal...

WCH · 03-22-2012, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiFan24

The Bears just signed Michael Bush, and the implication is that they're more than willing to play hardball with Forte since Bush has an every down skill set. According to his Twitter, Matt is pretty upset about the lack of respect. Was wondering what everyone thought about the situation.

Also, what could the Bears get in a trade? Would Cleveland give #22? Would Denver give #25? I'm not a running back guy, so I'd probably take either deal now that Bush in on the team (and then supplement him with a Pead/Turbin type), but I have no idea what the perception is on Forte.

Well...

Marshall Faulk was traded for a 2nd and 5th.
Jerome Bettis was traded for a 3rd round pick.
Corey Dillon fetched a 2nd round pick for the Bengals.
Denver fleeced the Redskins for Champ Bailey and a 2nd rounder in exchange for Clinton Portis.
The Bills traded Willis McGahee for a 3rd and a 7th round pick.
The Dolphins made the second stupid trade involving Ricky Williams, giving up four picks in total and including two firsts; but nobody is trading that for a RB anymore.

Those are the recent RB trades that spring to my mind.

So basically, I don't think you can trade Forte for a first round pick. All of those guys were better than Forte in their primes, except McGahee. Also, we can't count the Portis trade, because Dan Snyder is a chump.

Sorry. :(

ChiFan24 · 03-22-2012, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monomach

I don't think the Bears could get any more than a second and a fifth or sixth. It's going to take a DeAngelo Williams contract to sign him.

For my part, I'd happily take an early second, use that cap space on Demetrius Bell at LT, sign Ryan Grant, and roll with a three-headed (cheap) monster of Bush/Bell/Grant splitting carries.

Eh....Demetrius Bell is pretty awful and is going to get overpaid. I agree with the overall point though.

niel89 · 03-22-2012, 08:52 PM

With him needing a new contract I can't see them getting a 2nd with maybe a later pick at max.

Why won't the Bears just pay the man? Wasn't basically the entire offense last year?

He is only 26 and is a top RB. In theory its simple enough to just grab a mid round guy to replace him but Forte is a really good back and the drop off would be considerable even if the pick doesn't bust.

Monomach · 03-22-2012, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiFan24

Eh....Demetrius Bell is pretty awful and is going to get overpaid. I agree with the overall point though.

Demetrius Bell was horrible in 2009. He improved, but was still bad in 2010. In 2011, he graded out as a top ten left tackle. In 401 snaps, he allowed only one sack, one QB hit, and one pressure. The only problem he had was the shoulder injury.

He didn't start playing football until 2005, so I'd say he's still learning. Dude looks legit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by niel89

With him needing a new contract I can't see them getting a 2nd with maybe a later pick at max.

Why won't the Bears just pay the man? Wasn't basically the entire offense last year?

He is only 26 and is a top RB. In theory its simple enough to just grab a mid round guy to replace him but Forte is a really good back and the drop off would be considerable even if the pick doesn't bust.

He was offered a real contract, larger than Jamaal Charles'. He doesn't like it. He wants to be one of the highest paid RBs in the league. The reason the Bears won't do that is because they aren't dumb enough to tie all that money up in the RB position. RBs go to hell in their second contracts and they're not that hard to replace. As for how much of the offense he was, that's going to change with Michael Bush and Brandon Marshall around.

"Only" 26? A 26 year old RB is like a 30 year old receiver.

Mufasa · 03-22-2012, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monomach

I don't think the Bears could get any more than a second and a fifth or sixth. It's going to take a DeAngelo Williams contract to sign him.

For my part, I'd happily take an early second, use that cap space on Demetrius Bell at LT, sign Ryan Grant, and roll with a three-headed (cheap) monster of Bush/Bell/Grant splitting carries.

Why would you want to waste money on Ryan Grant? Bush is better. If you do move Forte he should be getting all the carries. If you still need to add another RB to the mix, do it through the draft.

Monomach · 03-22-2012, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mufasa

Why would you want to waste money on Ryan Grant? Bush is better. If you do move Forte he should be getting all the carries. If you still need to add another RB to the mix, do it through the draft.

I don't think Michael Bush can handle all of the carries. He looks like he has nothing in the tank when he gets all of the carries.

Mufasa · 03-22-2012, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monomach

I don't think Michael Bush can handle all of the carries. He looks like he has nothing in the tank when he gets all of the carries.

He had 256 carries last year, so he's definitely capable of carrying the load. I do get what you're saying though. But I don't get wanting Ryan Grant. There's a reason the Packers have shown no interest in re-signing him. He's 29 and hasn't been the same since coming back from his injury. He won't get paid a lot, but it'll still be more than he's worth. Drafting a change of pace back to pair with Bush would be a much better option.

brat316 · 03-22-2012, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monomach

Demetrius Bell was horrible in 2009. He improved, but was still bad in 2010. In 2011, he graded out as a top ten left tackle. In 401 snaps, he allowed only one sack, one QB hit, and one pressure. The only problem he had was the shoulder injury.

He didn't start playing football until 2005, so I'd say he's still learning. Dude looks legit.

He was offered a real contract, larger than Jamaal Charles'. He doesn't like it. He wants to be one of the highest paid RBs in the league. The reason the Bears won't do that is because they aren't dumb enough to tie all that money up in the RB position. RBs go to hell in their second contracts and they're not that hard to replace. As for how much of the offense he was, that's going to change with Michael Bush and Brandon Marshall around.

"Only" 26? A 26 year old RB is like a 30 year old receiver.

a 26 year old rb is 26, a 29/30 year old rb is more like 40, since they get run into the ground by that age.

Monomach · 03-22-2012, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mufasa

He had 256 carries last year, so he's definitely capable of carrying the load. I do get what you're saying though. But I don't get wanting Ryan Grant. There's a reason the Packers have shown no interest in re-signing him. He's 29 and hasn't been the same since coming back from his injury. He won't get paid a lot, but it'll still be more than he's worth. Drafting a change of pace back to pair with Bush would be a much better option.

Yes, Bush carried the load last year, but his YPC went into the toilet in the second half of the season when he was gassed.

...and the Packers have been trying to re-sign Grant, by all accounts. He looked pretty decent getting 10ish carries per game, which is more than he'd get in my plans, anyway. I'm thinking 10ish carries for Bell, 5ish for Grant, and the rest to Bush. Everyone stays fresh, everyone stays effective.

Bills2083 · 03-22-2012, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monomach

Demetrius Bell was horrible in 2009. He improved, but was still bad in 2010. In 2011, he graded out as a top ten left tackle. In 401 snaps, he allowed only one sack, one QB hit, and one pressure. The only problem he had was the shoulder injury.

He didn't start playing football until 2005, so I'd say he's still learning. Dude looks legit.

Be careful when you bring in those stats about Bell. Read this real quick to understand why:

Quote:

It's been discussed at length, and even backed up by Nix & Gailey, that the lack of sacks against vs this O-line is system based. They had to get rid of the ball quickly because the protection was not consistent on 5 & 7 step drops. Nix said they want to evolve the offense to take more chances down the field and they can not do this with the current tackles.

The rushing game was good because this offense led the league in 3 WR (or more) sets, when you are spread out that much you're only going to face 5-6 defenders in the box the majority of a game. It's easy to run vs Nickle & Dime defenses.

The LT has a huge void right now and going back to Bell is not a viable option.

Trust me, Bell is NOT a top 10 tackle in this league. I don't care what those stats say

redbills · 03-22-2012, 09:47 PM

Bell isn't top 10 but he is soild. I'd love to resign him for the right price.

Monomach · 03-22-2012, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bills2083

Be careful when you bring in those stats about Bell. Read this real quick to understand why:

Trust me, Bell is NOT a top 10 tackle in this league. I don't care what those stats say

That's just something said by a guy on a message board. Where's a link to Nix or Gailey saying that? If they say that they can't get things done with the current tackles, why are they trying to re-sign Bell?

WMD · 03-22-2012, 09:54 PM

The Lions should make a run at Matt Forte. Mayhew isn't afraid to pull off an inner-division trade either.. When we traded back up into the first to draft Jahvid Best, it was with Minnesota.

Not sure how Chicago feels about them though..

Monomach · 03-22-2012, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WMD

The Lions should make a run at Matt Forte. Mayhew isn't afraid to pull off an inner-division trade either.. When we traded back up into the first to draft Jahvid Best, it was with Minnesota.

Not sure how Chicago feels about them though..

You're probably our #1 competition for a wild card...

Mufasa · 03-22-2012, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WMD

The Lions should make a run at Matt Forte. Mayhew isn't afraid to pull off an inner-division trade either.. When we traded back up into the first to draft Jahvid Best, it was with Minnesota.

Not sure how Chicago feels about them though..

Trading a pick to a division rival is a lot different than trading your best offensive player to a division rival.

WMD · 03-22-2012, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monomach

You're probably our #1 competition for a wild card...

We'll take the Division this year.. No competition. Jacob Lacey put us over the top.

ChiFan24 · 03-22-2012, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WMD

The Lions should make a run at Matt Forte. Mayhew isn't afraid to pull off an inner-division trade either.. When we traded back up into the first to draft Jahvid Best, it was with Minnesota.

Not sure how Chicago feels about them though..

Nah.....**** you guys. Forte would beast against us.

WCH · 03-22-2012, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WMD

The Lions should make a run at Matt Forte. Mayhew isn't afraid to pull off an inner-division trade either.. When we traded back up into the first to draft Jahvid Best, it was with Minnesota.

Not sure how Chicago feels about them though..

The Packers also traded with the Vikings during the draft a few years back.

The NFC North is becoming one big trade-happy family, if we can get the Bears involved!

703SKINS202 · 03-22-2012, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WCH

Well...

Marshall Faulk was traded for a 2nd and 5th.
Jerome Bettis was traded for a 3rd round pick.
Corey Dillon fetched a 2nd round pick for the Bengals.
Denver fleeced the Redskins for Champ Bailey and a 2nd rounder in exchange for Clinton Portis.
The Bills traded Willis McGahee for a 3rd and a 7th round pick.
The Dolphins made the second stupid trade involving Ricky Williams, giving up four picks in total and including two firsts; but nobody is trading that for a RB anymore.

Those are the recent RB trades that spring to my mind.

So basically, I don't think you can trade Forte for a first round pick. All of those guys were better than Forte in their primes, except McGahee. Also, we can't count the Portis trade, because Dan Snyder is a chump.

Sorry. :(

Lest not forget the fleecing of T.J. Duckett for a 3rd rounder.

Anyways, doubt Bears could get more than a 3rd. The days of big time contracts for RB's is over. While I do think he deserves more money he has to be realistic. His stats aren't overwhelming and he's coming off a torn ACL.

I actually really like the Bush signing, Forte just has to understand this is a business.

ChiFan24 · 03-23-2012, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 703SKINS202

Lest not forget the fleecing of T.J. Duckett for a 3rd rounder.

Anyways, doubt Bears could get more than a 3rd. The days of big time contracts for RB's is over. While I do think he deserves more money he has to be realistic. His stats aren't overwhelming and he's coming off a torn ACL.

I actually really like the Bush signing, Forte just has to understand this is a business.

Well that's not true. He just played in the pro bowl.

Also, not sure how you can look at some of the RB contracts that have been handed out lately and think they don't get big money anymore. I don't know why teams keep handing out these deals....but they do. That's what the hold up is with Forte. Seems like the Bears are the only team that realizes how ridiculous the current RB market is.

The Bears have 100% of the leverage. A starting caliber RB in place and the tag. I wish Matt would just sign the tender or take the reasonable Frank Gore deal he was offered. I want him to be a Bear for as long as he's productive, but he's not making it easy.

Monomach · 03-23-2012, 01:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 703SKINS202

he's coming off a torn ACL. .

Sprained MCL. Pretty big difference, lol.

asdf1223 · 03-23-2012, 02:24 AM

He was offered a real contract, larger than Jamaal Charles'. He doesn't like it. He wants to be one of the highest paid RBs in the league. The reason the Bears won't do that is because they aren't dumb enough to tie all that money up in the RB position. RBs go to hell in their second contracts and they're not that hard to replace. As for how much of the offense he was, that's going to change with Michael Bush and Brandon Marshall around.

"Only" 26? A 26 year old RB is like a 30 year old receiver.[/quote]

As bad as DeAngelo's deal is for running backs, Jamaal Charles is the opposite. Forte has every right to demand a bigger deal than Charles. He's a true workhorse unlike Charles who needs a caddy. The Bears have boatloads of cap space this year anyway. Front load a deal with a large roster bonus and have an easy out from year 2 onwards. He certainly deserves it.