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Old 03-31-2012, 10:49 PM    (permalink
vidae
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Originally Posted by Diehard View Post
Not sure if this was posted elsewhere...

http://arizonasports.com/44/1522333/...en-room-invite

https://twitter.com/?tw_e=screenname...81368121712640



Green room invite suggests 1st or 2nd round. Interesting.
Wow. That's going to be a long wait.
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Old 03-31-2012, 10:56 PM    (permalink
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That's your fute wb Vid lol
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Old 03-31-2012, 11:25 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
Bottom line, Osweiler just wasn't a good college QB and there's no way he grades as a first round prospect.
This is the same way I feel. Osweiler has good tools to develop but he just wasn't that good of a player. I feel the same way with Poe. First thing I want in a prospect is for them to actually be a great player at the college level.

I also wish he had a more 'over the top' delivery to take more advantage of his height.
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Old 04-01-2012, 12:55 AM    (permalink
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Brock Osweiler a 1st round pick?

Derp...


Stop it guys, seriously. My sides are hurtin'.

I might have to go to the hospital on draft day if somebody takes this bum in the 1st...
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Old 04-01-2012, 07:44 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by CowboysBeastMode View Post
Do you remember the scouting reports on Roethlisberger coming out of college? It is fair to compare them as prospects IMO. I as 99.9% of people would argue Roethlisberger was a superior prospect (its pretty obvious) but they both have quite a few similar traits. Ben was a bball player in HS as was Osweiler, both are very big guys that move well - they don't run exceptionally fast 40 times but have the ability and agility to move around in the pocket and behind the line of scrimmage to avoid defenders and extend plays. Ben was viewed as a raw QB who played primarily out of shotgun at Miami Oh. against lesser competition.

Feel free to have a non emoticon rebuttal
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Old 04-01-2012, 08:04 AM    (permalink
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Osweiler has TOOLS that are similar to Roethlisberger, but Big Ben's college game was much more advanced than Osweiler.

IMO to be a top prospect at any position, you need to demonstrate outstanding ability and a high skill level in live game situations, the physical tools to translate that ability at the pro level, and hopefully an innate ability to make plays that can't be coached.

Osweiler has tools, and he does make a couple of impressive plays in most games, but IMO he hasn't demonstrated a high skill level, consistency or execution as a starting QB.
THat's why he's a developmental prospect.

IMO it was a bad decision for him declare because Osweiler needs more playing time in games that count, which he won't get as a 2nd/3rd string QB in the NFL.
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Old 04-01-2012, 02:03 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by SolidGold View Post
Do you remember the scouting reports on Roethlisberger coming out of college? It is fair to compare them as prospects IMO. I as 99.9% of people would argue Roethlisberger was a superior prospect (its pretty obvious) but they both have quite a few similar traits. Ben was a bball player in HS as was Osweiler, both are very big guys that move well - they don't run exceptionally fast 40 times but have the ability and agility to move around in the pocket and behind the line of scrimmage to avoid defenders and extend plays. Ben was viewed as a raw QB who played primarily out of shotgun at Miami Oh. against lesser competition.

Feel free to have a non emoticon rebuttal
in no way is osweiler similar to roethlisberger imo. osweiler is not physically imposing as roethlisberger. osweiler does not have the abiltity to break tackles, shrug off d-lineman and make passes with guys hanging all over him. sure osweiler is more athletic than ryan mallett but lets not start calling osweiler athletic for someone who 6-7, he's tall and he can at least move enough to not be a complete statue. He and roethlisberger are 2 completely different body types

sorry if i hurt ur feelings (even though im not)jk but this qb madness is driving me crazy LOL
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Old 04-01-2012, 02:05 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
Osweiler has TOOLS that are similar to Roethlisberger, but Big Ben's college game was much more advanced than Osweiler.

IMO to be a top prospect at any position, you need to demonstrate outstanding ability and a high skill level in live game situations, the physical tools to translate that ability at the pro level, and hopefully an innate ability to make plays that can't be coached.

Osweiler has tools, and he does make a couple of impressive plays in most games, but IMO he hasn't demonstrated a high skill level, consistency or execution as a starting QB.
THat's why he's a developmental prospect.

IMO it was a bad decision for him declare because Osweiler needs more playing time in games that count, which he won't get as a 2nd/3rd string QB in the NFL.
he declared b/c of a the head coach got canned
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Old 04-01-2012, 02:09 PM    (permalink
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This is the same way I feel. Osweiler has good tools to develop but he just wasn't that good of a player. I feel the same way with Poe. First thing I want in a prospect is for them to actually be a great player at the college level.

I also wish he had a more 'over the top' delivery to take more advantage of his height.
So for instance, there is no way you would have drafted Jason Pierre-Paul like the Giants did since he had little production in college. You have to be careful about having extreme views when you assess the draft rankings.
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Old 04-01-2012, 02:15 PM    (permalink
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So for instance, there is no way you would have drafted Jason Pierre-Paul like the Giants did since he had little production in college. You have to be careful about having extreme views when you assess the draft rankings.
Except JPP did look great for a lot of the one year he played. The production wasn't there, but that's why he fell to the giants instead of going top 5. But the high level of play was there for the one season of NCAA ball he played.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 04-01-2012, 02:16 PM    (permalink
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so hilarious. this is why people overdraft untalented crap like gabbert. because they think a pro day means something, and they ignore the actual film. anyone who takes gabbert before the 4th should be fired.
Did you mean Osweiler? If you did, i 100% agree with this. I wouldnt even agree with a team taking him in the 4th round. He's **** and IMO always will be.
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Old 04-01-2012, 02:19 PM    (permalink
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News Flash: If you're 6'5 225 +, and you have a cannon for an arm, but only have played average at the college level, you sir, are an NFL first round QB prospect.

Geez, the majority of average QBs can complete passes to WRs running in shorts with no defenders in the defensive backfield.
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Old 04-01-2012, 02:30 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Iamcanadian View Post
So for instance, there is no way you would have drafted Jason Pierre-Paul like the Giants did since he had little production in college. You have to be careful about having extreme views when you assess the draft rankings.
jpp is a de, there is so much more that goes into the evaluation of a qb than just physical tools as with other positions
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Old 04-01-2012, 02:44 PM    (permalink
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Everybody does know that Osweiler only played in 6 games as a soph and that his junior year was really his first full season as a starter. That he is extremely raw with his future clearly ahead of him.

I'm not saying he is a sure fire success down the line but he has a decent ceiling if he can ever get there, of course that is the question. Teams are scared because nobody that tall has really succeeded in the NFL before but it looks like some team make take a flyer on him at least by round 2 just based on his potential.
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Old 04-01-2012, 03:24 PM    (permalink
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Everybody does know that Osweiler only played in 6 games as a soph and that his junior year was really his first full season as a starter. That he is extremely raw with his future clearly ahead of him.

I'm not saying he is a sure fire success down the line but he has a decent ceiling if he can ever get there, of course that is the question. Teams are scared because nobody that tall has really succeeded in the NFL before but it looks like some team make take a flyer on him at least by round 2 just based on his potential.
I'd start middle third as the highest i'd reach for him.
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Old 04-01-2012, 03:32 PM    (permalink
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I'd start middle third as the highest i'd reach for him.
Well after his invite to the green room I have assume he got at least a 2nd round grade from whoever advises the NFL in this matters. Of course, anything can happen on draft day.
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Old 04-01-2012, 04:03 PM    (permalink
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So what's Osweiler's major flaw that would prevent him from going high or better yet, prevent him from being successfull?
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Old 04-01-2012, 04:09 PM    (permalink
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So what's Osweiler's major flaw that would prevent him from going high or better yet, prevent him from being successfull?
Not being able to throw the ball in a straight line, **** pocket presence and a terrible feel for the game.
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Old 04-01-2012, 05:51 PM    (permalink
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So what's Osweiler's major flaw that would prevent him from going high or better yet, prevent him from being successfull?
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Not being able to throw the ball in a straight line, **** pocket presence and a terrible feel for the game.
so other than that he's pretty good huh?

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Old 04-02-2012, 01:11 AM    (permalink
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I haven't been as high on Osweiler as some, but he does make some beautiful throws.



There's definitely some NFL moments there against Cal.
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Old 04-02-2012, 01:33 AM    (permalink
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That was his best game of the year imo. He had better games statistically but Cal is a good defense and the game plan called for downfield throws.
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Old 04-02-2012, 01:54 AM    (permalink
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With how overdrafted QB's are becoming, seeing someone trade up into the late first to grab him wouldn't shock me.
It's impossible to overdraft a QB. If you like a QB and think he will start for your team for the long haul, you draft him as early as you can possibly manage.

Osweiler has a lot of things going for him. He's a leader, he has the physical and athletic tools, he put up the stats you look for, and I really don't think he's as big of a project as others think he is. He had a terrible defense backing him up.

The only real knock on him is he seems a bit immature. But that doesn't keep people from loving Philip Rivers and Jay Cutler.
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Old 04-02-2012, 05:26 AM    (permalink
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Was going to make a new thread for this but figured I'll just put it here. I'm not advocating for Osweiler in the first (anymore)but I thought a head to head comparison of the two given their similar experience was necessary. So, my take...

Osweiler vs Tannehill


Arm Strength
RT is the better arm talent. When he sets and steps in he blisters balls to his target. Os is not that far behind though. He can also stick the ball into tight windows.

Accuracy/Delivery
Again RT is the better arm talent. His placement on short and intermediate is great. But the drop off on throws further down the field is more than you would expect for how well his shorter throws are. His 3/4 delivery sometimes seems to get lower when he throws on the run but he usually tries to square up his shoulders. But what I don't like is that he rarely resets his feet-he's usually drifting on the throw once he leaves the pocket. An odd fact, given his ok delivery, is the number of batted balls RT had. It's tough to figure exactly why but it's definitely not good. Os flashes great accuracy all over the field but lacks touch on fade balls and has that Rivers-esque delivery-although he's attempted to correct it this post season. I like his feet when he moves around the pocket but he doesn't look smooth throwing on the run. But he resets quickly and I like his potential for extending plays then making completions down field.



Field vision
I don't see any discernible difference in the two in this category. Both tend to see the field fairly well. Both show a tendency to lock on to their guys and are limited at this point going through progressions.

Running ability/Pocket presence
preface-RT shows decent pocket presence and looks to extend plays while keeping his eyes down field. He moves easily inside and outside the pocket. What I don't like about him is that he doesn't show any special ability to squirt out of danger. If a guy can get a paw on him he's going down. Also, when pressure is right in his face, he's got a bad tendency to always drift backward and throw off his back foot. Sometimes it looks as if the rush is just entirely too fast for him-as if he's completely unprepared for it. Os' issue is that it looks like he tries to do too much in the face of pressure. As if he trusts his basketball ability too much. He gets overwhelmed by a heavy rush at times and doesn't check it down or get the ball out. Both are courageous in the pocket-willing to stand in when they know a guy is zeroing in on them and still fire an accurate pass but imo Osweiller shows more toughness in this regard.

You would assume that RT having played WR and obviously faster would be the clear cut better runner/scrambler but it's not that easy. Os is also a great athlete with a basketball background. It's given him good feet and short area quickness and lateral ability. RT is more of a linear guy. RT easily rolls and moves to extend plays but it's when he's got clear space to do so. Os is more decisive about tucking and running while RT, at least as a senior, appears more tentative. Os is more willing to fight free after contact than RT. Given an open alley, RT is clearly the more dangerous runner but inside a collapsing pocket, needing a first down or a TD in the red zone, I'd say Os is better equipped.

Intangibles/Bottom line
Everyone's read how smart RT is and how respected he is by teammates and coaches. Impeccable character, disciplined. Os, as far as I know, is also of high character and has demonstrated he's a hard worker; loves yoga. (+ in my book) Both have shown poise but also some panic at times on the field.

A little troubling is that, RT, even with so little experience, actually had a better junior year stepping in for Jerrod Johnson than senior year. Watching him in 2010 lead that Aggie team was impressive. It's why heading into this year I had no doubt he would end up a first round pick. But this year as a senior, his nickname could've been Tentative Tannehill. He mentioned it at his pro day and said it was one of the primary things he and Weinke were working on-changing his tendency to overthink and just let it rip. This is the biggest problem I have with him. Rather than taking over games, like he did as a junior, he seemed content this year to just be a piece of the puzzle or passenger. Watch 2010's LSU game and see the difference. He made mistakes but he was aggressive and decisive. He was putting his team on his back, not just managing.



Os is obviously also raw with only one year starting experience but he had a strong first year as a starter. I'm sure he broke some ASU records or something this year-that's pretty far from a bad collegiate QB. What I like about Os is that when he sees it, he rips it. He's much more decisive than RT, whether it's deciding to run or trying to stick a pass. He's not tentative in the least. He looks to put his team on his back-for good or bad. I had to admire that play in the bowl game where he waved off the STs and then promptly threw an incomplete. It didn't work that time but that's the kind of brass you want in your QB. You get the sense that if a coaching staff can get him up to speed as far as mental preparedness, that he can be very good. Greg Cosell mentioned he saw a major flaw in Os' game; that he needed functional space to get the ball out. I've seen Os consistently get the ball out accurately while getting hit-Illinois game especially. He's also demonstrated the ability to extend plays regularly while staying focused downfield-Ariz game especially in 010 making I think his 3rd collegiate start:



Scott mentioned Alex Smith as comparison for RT. That's exactly what he could turn into if he doesn't trust what he sees. (a game manger) I remember a quote saying Smith had "genius level" intelligence/aptitude coming out. So why is it a guy like Farve is a future HOFer and has demonstrated football intelligence that's leagues above Alex Smith to this point? It's because your intelligence off the field doesn't mean ****.

Bottom line is that RT is the better arm talent but if he plays in the pros like he did his senior year, I have a hard time seeing him as a franchise type that's going to put his team on his back. Os is not as polished but his arm is nearly as good, and looks more capable of carrying his team and being "the guy" at the next level. If you disagree, tell me how so, minus the hyperbole.
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Old 04-02-2012, 08:46 AM    (permalink
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Really nice breakdown. 100% agree with Tannehill, particularly in terms of 2010 vs 2011. The way RT has been hesitant as a senior reminds me of Brian Brohm's senior year and he never really got out of that.

Os I really liked the first couple of games I watched - but the more I watched, the less I liked him. Took too many sacks and just doesn't seem to see who is going to be blitzing enough of the time. Love his feet for a big man, made some very nice deep throws (thinking the Oregon game particularly) and I loved his fire in the Bowl game waving off the FG team to go for it on 4th down when the team really needed a spark. Some are worried about his long release - but looks OK to me. Vertical offense guy.

On balance, if I had a gun to my head and had to pick one of them, I think it would Osweiler. But I'd take Kirk Cousins ahead of both!
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