Kirkpatrick vs Jenkins vs Gilmore

RaiderNation · 03-31-2012, 05:31 PM

There is mixed opinions on which CB will be drafted after Claiborne, but it has to come down to the 3 prospects listed above. I've seen a lot of people value Gilmore so highly because of his protypical size and speed, but Kirkpatrick is even taller with better game speed IMO. Gilmore struggled at times his Junior year and seems like he's being overrated as a workout warrior type, and I'd honestly still take Kirkpatrick and even Janoris Jenkins before Gilmore.

Whats your thoughts?

keylime_5 · 03-31-2012, 05:36 PM

Based just on tape and ability as a pure cover corner it's Jenkins....but Kirkpatrick might be a more productive NFL cornerback who can cover bigger WRs with his long frame and good athleticism - but he is a little more raw and needs to polish up on his man to man cover skills. He is a great tackler though and good in run support. Gilmore has the most upside as he has the best size with long arms at 6'0"/200 lbs. and he has great ball skills - but he tends to get beat in coverage more than the other two and his hips aren't quite as good as a great cornerbacks' hips should be. Gilmore, Kirkpatrick, Jenkins will go in that order, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if they had success in descending order.

Sloopy · 03-31-2012, 06:35 PM

I got Kirkpatrick here.

I honestly don't understand his fall. I know that he has some off the field issues (nothing big IMO) and that Mayock didn't exactly give him the nod of approval but I see nothing that would deter me from taking him.

The guy was considered a top 15 prospect all season long and then just fell come seasons end. It just doesn't make sense to me.

TheSlinger · 03-31-2012, 06:49 PM

If I could take Jenkins based on his 2010 performance with no character issues he'd be the #1 CB for me in the draft. I never saw him in 2011 but people smarter than me say he was underwhelming, played with a lack of effort, and obviously the character stuff came up again, so NO.

I'd take Gilmore over Kirkpatrick. Kirkpatrick is a little longer and is a better tackler - but Gilmore is a good tackler too. Gilmore is more athletic, much more fluid, has better ball skills and the return ability to take one to the house.

vidae · 03-31-2012, 06:54 PM

I can't stand most character concerns so Jenkins would be third. I am a big fan of Alabama defenders too, so I'd take Dre K before Gilmore.

Sloopy · 03-31-2012, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSlinger

I'd take Gilmore over Kirkpatrick. Kirkpatrick is a little longer and is a better tackler - but Gilmore is a good tackler too. Gilmore is more athletic, much more fluid, has better ball skills and the return ability to take one to the house.

I think that both Dre AND Gilmore have issues with fluidity; both get a little bit to tall in their back pedal and turn to high when they break.

Both have ideal measurable and both have adequate speed.

I would be okay with both of them but I give a slight edge to Dre

Master Exploder · 03-31-2012, 08:18 PM

I'd take Kirkpatrick and Gilmore before I'd take Jenkins.

I like Jenkins a lot though, but I would not want my team drafting him unless it was in the late 2nd, early 3rd round. Even then it worries me though. I personally wouldn't draft any player that was kicked off of their team for drug related issues. From my experiences, kids will learn from mistakes like stealing laptops and what-not. That's not something that would worry me about lingering on in the NFL. Drugs on the other hand will definitely linger on. Especially in a kid who had several warnings prior to being kicked off of his team for it.

Sloopy · 03-31-2012, 08:39 PM

I think it may also depend on system. Jenkins will excel on a team who runs a lot of zone coverages while guys like Gilmore and Dre will likely excel in man coverage.

Jenkins may very well be the most talented and I actually would argue that he is; but when I think of drafting players I think either in terms of if I was the GM/coach of a team or if I was the GM of my favorite team (Ravens). In either case I would take Dre as I prefer man coverage and so do the Ravens.

In the end, it is still Dre. I don't think you can discount the value of a CB who can man up one on one with the big freakish WRs in this league.

TheFinisher · 03-31-2012, 08:55 PM

Jenkins for me. He's got elite movement skills for the position and seems to also have the edge in technique and overall playmaking ability. He can do pretty much anything you ask coverage wise at a high level but his best fit might be in a zone scheme where he's allowed to make plays facing the QB. His ability to bait, change direction and drive on the ball is pretty special and I can see him being an INT machine in that kind of defense.

That being said I think he can also be a very good man corner that provides some versatility, he's still big enough to play outside receivers but with his quickness and fluidity I can also see him being one of the best slot defenders in the game.

CDCB14 · 03-31-2012, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keylime_5

Based just on tape and ability as a pure cover corner it's Jenkins....but Kirkpatrick might be a more productive NFL cornerback who can cover bigger WRs with his long frame and good athleticism - but he is a little more raw and needs to polish up on his man to man cover skills. He is a great tackler though and good in run support. Gilmore has the most upside as he has the best size with long arms at 6'0"/200 lbs. and he has great ball skills - but he tends to get beat in coverage more than the other two and his hips aren't quite as good as a great cornerbacks' hips should be. Gilmore, Kirkpatrick, Jenkins will go in that order, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if they had success in descending order.

People forget that Kirkpatrick only has 30 5/8 inch arms. That isn't that long at all. Jenkins has 32 inch arms. Kirkpatrick's height is nice, but it's not like he's some pterodactyl out there who was born to cover AJ Green.

Also, Kirkpatrick's size is no better than Gilmore's. In fact, Gilmore's is probably better. He is 1 inch shorter but has 1 inch longer arms, and weighs over 10 pounds more than Kirkpatrick. Kirkpatrick only looks "long" because he is skinny as hell. Did you see him at the second 'bama pro day the other day? He looked like a starving kid from Africa.

Now i'm not bashing Dre and would love him on my team if I was an NFL team, but some of these faults are obvious.

FUNBUNCHER · 03-31-2012, 10:19 PM

Kirkpatrick is a full two inches taller than Gilmore. (6'2 v. 6 feet even).

Gilmore weighed 190# at the combine. Dre weighed 187#.

CDCB14 · 03-31-2012, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER

Kirkpatrick is a full two inches taller than Gilmore. (6'2 v. 6 feet even).

Gilmore weighed 190# at the combine. Dre weighed 187#.

Actually Kirkpatrick was 6'1'' 3/8 and Gilmore was 6' 1/4, so that's one inch. Gilmore just weighed in at 197 at his pro day as well. There really isn't that much difference in size. Kirkpatrick just looks super long because he is so skinny. Skinny people always look longer than they actually are.

Lil Quip · 03-31-2012, 11:02 PM

Oops. I answered the question in the poll not the post. I think the difference between the two questions is the rub of this.

I think Jenkins is the second best, with the big caveat is that, barring a huge revelation in the interview/background are, I would draft him last of the three options.

I am on the fence between Kirkpatrick and Gilmore. I would like either with the pats.

descendency · 04-01-2012, 12:48 AM

Jenkins.

Jenkins is seriously talented, but people point to his "character" concerns. His character concern is smoking pot. Guess whom else smokes it? Dre Kirkpatrick.

I really don't see a #1 corner when I see Kirkpatrick. I see a potential safety or maybe a #2 corner. I just never come away that impressed by his performances.

Stephon Gilmore is a very impressive guy physically that doesn't always show up to his measurables. I'd gladly have him at 27 though...

Master Exploder · 04-01-2012, 04:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by descendency

Jenkins.

Jenkins is seriously talented, but people point to his "character" concerns. His character concern is smoking pot. Guess whom else smokes it? Dre Kirkpatrick.

I really don't see a #1 corner when I see Kirkpatrick. I see a potential safety or maybe a #2 corner. I just never come away that impressed by his performances.

Stephon Gilmore is a very impressive guy physically that doesn't always show up to his measurables. I'd gladly have him at 27 though...

Yeah, but Jenkins got kicked out of school for it. It's a bit different, because he had several run-ins with it. You would think at some point he would put his team/future above the one thing that kept getting him into trouble.

DeathbyStat · 04-01-2012, 06:19 AM

Pure talent i'd say jenkins but with all the off the field stuff i'll go with Gilmore, Kirkpatrick third, he seems stiff hipped and Gilmore had more production in college

descendency · 04-01-2012, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Exploder

Yeah, but Jenkins got kicked out of school for it. It's a bit different, because he had several run-ins with it. You would think at some point he would put his team/future above the one thing that kept getting him into trouble.

Yeah, getting kicked out of Florida is a huge huge huge concern (especially for something like pot...). I mean, getting kicked out of Florida takes a good 5 or 6 strikes...

The point I'm making is that until someone gets kicked out, you never know how close they are or how many violations they've had. Plus, Alabama and Florida have two different set of people making the decisions (and two different circumstances involving their schools... for one, a new coach).

Fred Savage · 04-01-2012, 08:21 AM

Kirkpatrick

Has the most upside, was coached by Saban. I think at worst he becomes a top safety in the league. Pass happy league is forcing big corners to become safeties. He can read plays well and come into the box and make tackles. Not the biggest Gilmore fan, think he is a bit of a work out warrior after watching him play. Jenkins has issues.

cmarq83 · 04-01-2012, 10:31 AM

To me it has to be Jenkins. Gilmore has always been mediocre whenever I've seen him, and is all upside at this point. Kirkpatrick is physical and has good size and tackling ability, but his coverage is a little streaky at this point, and I think he'd be a better player at safety.

Jenkins has the huge character red flags, but there were times when he was a sophmore where he legitimately looked like as good or better than Haden. He's silky smooth in coverage, has great ball skills, and is a great tackler for his size. If he didn't screw up and get kicked out of Florida I think there would be a Claiborne/Jenkins debate for top corner right now.

CDCB14 · 04-01-2012, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by descendency

Yeah, getting kicked out of Florida is a huge huge huge concern (especially for something like pot...). I mean, getting kicked out of Florida takes a good 5 or 6 strikes...

The point I'm making is that until someone gets kicked out, you never know how close they are or how many violations they've had. Plus, Alabama and Florida have two different set of people making the decisions (and two different circumstances involving their schools... for one, a new coach).

I agree with Descendency. Character concerns are always so overblown. If he held up a drug store or punched a women in the face then fine... but weed even on multiple occasions isn't that bad, and he hasn't gotten in trouble in over a year. I laugh at people who care about "character concerns." In fact, when is the last time a good prospect that had such concerns didn't pan out because of off the field trouble? I really can't think of any. How did Randy Moss turn out.. he was such a trouble maker. Tell him about it at his HOF induction..

87Canes · 04-01-2012, 10:44 AM

Kirkpatrick had some issues with getting beat deep but which CB hasn't gotten beat deep? Got in trouble off the field? So what! Pure skill, he's the best CB after Claiborne in this draft. He can bump, tackle, cover and has good ball skills. Not to mention played in a very complex D at Bama.

Jenkins...how do you get kicked out of UF? They are one of the most lenient programs in CFB. Unless Muschamps used him to make an example (which hasn't worked) but all those issues would be a def read flag to me as he did it throughout his entire college career. I also don't like how he gambles a lot but that can all be coached. Still the 4th best CB to me.

Gilmore has been shooting up draft board and his numbers were pretty good during his college career. Has great ball skills, can bump and play zone and will also tackle. He'll compete with Dre for the 2nd CB spot.

CDCB14 · 04-01-2012, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 87Canes

Kirkpatrick had some issues with getting beat deep but which CB hasn't gotten beat deep? Got in trouble off the field? So what! Pure skill, he's the best CB after Claiborne in this draft. He can bump, tackle, cover and has good ball skills. Not to mention played in a very complex D at Bama.

Jenkins...how do you get kicked out of UF? They are one of the most lenient programs in CFB. Unless Muschamps used him to make an example (which hasn't worked) but all those issues would be a def read flag to me as he did it throughout his entire college career. I also don't like how he gambles a lot but that can all be coached. Still the 4th best CB to me.

Gilmore has been shooting up draft board and his numbers were pretty good during his college career. Has great ball skills, can bump and play zone and will also tackle. He'll compete with Dre for the 2nd CB spot.

Actually, that's false. The only TD Kirkpatrick gave up in his entire career was when he bit on that double move on the first play of the game against Florida. I haven't seen the ball go over his head for a completion any other time.

87Canes · 04-01-2012, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CDCB14

Actually, that's false. The only TD Kirkpatrick gave up in his entire career was when he bit on that double move on the first play of the game against Florida. I haven't seen the ball go over his head for a completion any other time.

He got beat like 3 times. I remember them showing the couple times where he got beat on a deep pass but I can't remember the other 2 aside from the UF game. Either way, he's a heck of a CB...and even Revis gets beat deep so no concerns there.

Iamcanadian · 04-01-2012, 02:31 PM

I think Gilmore has moved into top 10 consideration, he has everything and is pretty close to Claiborne's skill set, and was far more productive as a college player. However, teams who want a more physical CB may fall in love with Kirkpatrick but his skills aren't close to Gilmore's. Kirkpatrick could really excel in a zone system while Gilmore is a pure shutdown CB's in a man to man system.
It really doesn't matter how good a prospect Jenkins is and he has top 10 talent as well as a shutdown CB, but his character issues are going to drop him into a late 1st round pick.

cmarq83 · 04-01-2012, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iamcanadian

I think Gilmore has moved into top 10 consideration, he has everything and is pretty close to Claiborne's skill set, and was far more productive as a college player. However, teams who want a more physical CB may fall in love with Kirkpatrick but his skills aren't close to Gilmore's. Kirkpatrick could really excel in a zone system while Gilmore is a pure shutdown CB's in a man to man system.
It really doesn't matter how good a prospect Jenkins is and he has top 10 talent as well as a shutdown CB, but his character issues are going to drop him into a late 1st round pick.

What were games were you watching that could have possibly given you that impression?