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Old 04-03-2012, 09:52 AM    (permalink
descendency
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Originally Posted by FootballGod View Post
The Wonderlic is multiple choice if I remember correctly. If he would have just marked down "C" for every answer he would have scored around a 10-12. That statistical proof shows just how stupid this kid is. What a joke!
On average, it should net a 10-12. It is possible that it nets you a 0.
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Old 04-03-2012, 09:52 AM    (permalink
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Again, the football relevance isn't there. The Wonderlic was not designed to test on athletes. It's a test of logic and reasoning. Word association is a big part of it, as well as some mid-level math, and some stuff that's built to test your attention to detail.

The fact that a player bombs the wonderlic doesn't imply he's going to be a bad football player. The reason, imo, that NFL teams administer it is to gain an understanding of how a prospect deals with real-life situations. I.E. if you get pulled over and have pot in the car, are you going to try to eat it and then not show up to your arraignment? Just as an example.
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Old 04-03-2012, 10:29 AM    (permalink
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Again, the football relevance isn't there. The Wonderlic was not designed to test on athletes. It's a test of logic and reasoning. Word association is a big part of it, as well as some mid-level math, and some stuff that's built to test your attention to detail.

The fact that a player bombs the wonderlic doesn't imply he's going to be a bad football player. The reason, imo, that NFL teams administer it is to gain an understanding of how a prospect deals with real-life situations. I.E. if you get pulled over and have pot in the car, are you going to try to eat it and then not show up to your arraignment? Just as an example.
Most NFL defensive packages are more complicated than "Cover this one dude all of the time".

There is a lot of "if play X is called, do Y action if A formation is shown. And if they show B formation do Z action instead. And if they show C formation do W action instead." And the actions could have their own decision trees on whatever the DB's keys are. For example, his actions could be different if the WR does an out, an up, a slant, run block, etc...

When you go full re-tard, you can't process that kind of stuff and you blow assignments.

He might not be that stupid, but I'd say the odds are pretty great that he is (or doesn't give a crap about learning, which is very bad for an NFL defensive back).

For example, here are the average test scores for NFL players.

The cornerback average is 18. He's far below that.

We've seen how debilitating it is for a QB to be an idiot no matter how physically talented (see VY). You can kinda scheme around an idiot DB, but an offensive coordinator will just exploit the hell out of that once it's known just how dumb he is.
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Old 04-03-2012, 10:36 AM    (permalink
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Do you have no idea how admission standards work? It's very common for players to be denied admission to Big Ten schools and end up in the SEC. I have never in my life heard the opposite with the exception of Vandy.

I'm not saying the Big Ten is producing legitimate scholars either, but you at least need to know how to spell your name to gain admittance.
Yes I do, I don't need to be lectured on it. My point is that with all of the **** heads and idiots in college football it is funny that the finger always gets pointed at the SEC when there are schools in the Big 10 who have coaches pointing their fingers up little boy's asses and they still glorify the guy who was in charge of it all.

I'm not disputing that the academic standards for SEC football players are a joke, but the holier than tho attitude of Big 10 fans on the matter cracks me up. Something tells me Terrelle Pryor was no genius. Denard Robinson got a 19 on the ACT. Laurence Maroney of the mighty Minnesota Golden Gophers doesn't strike me as the brightest bulb in the lamp. Maybe if Big 10 teams kept winning National Championships then SEC fans would have to bring it up, but they don't. I don't even like bringing up conference generalizations because it sounds stupid coming out of the mouth of an Ole Miss fan, and I know that.
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Old 04-03-2012, 10:40 AM    (permalink
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I'll be honest here.. when I read the title of this thread I thought he tied it at the other end.
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Old 04-03-2012, 10:41 AM    (permalink
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I'll be honest here.. when I read the title of this thread I thought he tied it at the other end.
You mean tying that punter for a perfect score? Ha...so naive vidae.
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Old 04-03-2012, 10:43 AM    (permalink
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I'll be honest here.. when I read the title of this thread I thought he tied it at the other end.
I'll be honest, I knew that it would be on the wrong end. I did not think he was this stupid though.
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Old 04-03-2012, 10:43 AM    (permalink
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Someone got a perfect score? Who was it?

edit: Oh, Pat McInally. Neat.
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Old 04-03-2012, 10:46 AM    (permalink
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Someone got a perfect score? Who was it?
Former punter back in the 80s I think.

Fitzpatrick scored a 48 which is the next highest I can recall.
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Old 04-03-2012, 10:48 AM    (permalink
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Most NFL defensive packages are more complicated than "Cover this one dude all of the time".

There is a lot of "if play X is called, do Y action if A formation is shown. And if they show B formation do Z action instead. And if they show C formation do W action instead." And the actions could have their own decision trees on whatever the DB's keys are. For example, his actions could be different if the WR does an out, an up, a slant, run block, etc...

When you go full re-tard, you can't process that kind of stuff and you blow assignments.

He might not be that stupid, but I'd say the odds are pretty great that he is (or doesn't give a crap about learning, which is very bad for an NFL defensive back).

For example, here are the average test scores for NFL players.

The cornerback average is 18. He's far below that.

We've seen how debilitating it is for a QB to be an idiot no matter how physically talented (see VY). You can kinda scheme around an idiot DB, but an offensive coordinator will just exploit the hell out of that once it's known just how dumb he is.
You don't think Les Miles is running complex defensive schemes at LSU. Or Nick Saban???

That's the point.

If a guy is starting in the secondary at LSU and Alabama, it's not because he's a great athlete but because most of all that player isn't blowing his assignments. So why would they care about the Wonderlic???


THere's no correlation between wonderlic scores and how well a DB will perform in the pros.

People IMO put too much faith in the infallible predictive powers of a test like the wonderlic...for ATHLETES.

There is something called 'athletic intelligence' and it's not really quantifiable by a multiple choice exam.
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Old 04-03-2012, 10:51 AM    (permalink
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This would be kind of a big deal if there was any actual correlation between Wonderlic scores and football intelligence. Even at the QB where intelligence is a pretty big factor a high wonderlic score doesn't mean success a low one doesnt mean failure.

People bring up Vince Young all the time but intelligence was definitely the only reason he flopped on the field. His arm wasn't great, a lot of what made him good in college didn't translate in the Pros and he was an emotional wreck(which the Wonderlic DOESN'T measure). He could have damn well scored a 50 in the wonderlic and graduated with an Aerospace degree from Texas and he would probably still sucked in the NFL.
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Old 04-03-2012, 10:53 AM    (permalink
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Every who keeps correlating this with intelligence, just stop. Right now.

To me, it's about preparedness. He obviously did not give a single **** and blew it off. That hurts him more in my eyes than if he were just actually dumb.

If he seriously just spent an hour the night before looking over some practice tests online or something, ANYTHING, he could have done better than a 4.
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Old 04-03-2012, 11:00 AM    (permalink
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Every who keeps correlating this with intelligence, just stop. Right now.

To me, it's about preparedness. He obviously did not give a single **** and blew it off. That hurts him more in my eyes than if he were just actually dumb.

If he seriously just spent an hour the night before looking over some practice tests online or something, ANYTHING, he could have done better than a 4.
If his mentality was just "screw this," and he didn't even read the questions, the probability of him scoring a 4 is still low. If he scored an 8-12 I'd say that he was guessing. I administered the test to a lot of people, and not the best and brightest in the world, and rarely saw anyone fall below 18. The fact that he got a 4 is either particularly bad luck, or more likely, his true effort.
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Old 04-03-2012, 11:08 AM    (permalink
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I'm not disputing that the academic standards for SEC football players are a joke, but the holier than tho attitude of Big 10 fans on the matter cracks me up. Something tells me Terrelle Pryor was no genius. Denard Robinson got a 19 on the ACT. Laurence Maroney of the mighty Minnesota Golden Gophers doesn't strike me as the brightest bulb in the lamp. Maybe if Big 10 teams kept winning National Championships then SEC fans would have to bring it up, but they don't. I don't even like bringing up conference generalizations because it sounds stupid coming out of the mouth of an Ole Miss fan, and I know that.
Terelle Pryor was an academic all-Big Ten student and graduated high school with a 3.4 GPA. He lacked common sense, not intelligence. As far as Denard Robinson goes, 19 is the average composite ACT score in the state of Florida and I believe the national average is 20.
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Old 04-03-2012, 11:09 AM    (permalink
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I was under the impression that if you score under 24 that isn't good and anything below 20 is borderline ********. Maybe I am wrong, I only took the SAT.
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Old 04-03-2012, 11:22 AM    (permalink
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You don't think Les Miles is running complex defensive schemes at LSU. Or Nick Saban???

That's the point.

If a guy is starting in the secondary at LSU and Alabama, it's not because he's a great athlete but because most of all that player isn't blowing his assignments. So why would they care about the Wonderlic???


THere's no correlation between wonderlic scores and how well a DB will perform in the pros.

People IMO put too much faith in the infallible predictive powers of a test like the wonderlic...for ATHLETES.

There is something called 'athletic intelligence' and it's not really quantifiable by a multiple choice exam.
I keep seeing that some people on here say that Wonderlic scores don't matter and I call BS. They wouldn't administer them if they didn't want a metric to see how capable a person is of processing information on the fly.

The results of this test indicate:

a) He blew it off. This much is obvious. This is a red flag just for the sole aspect that the NFL wants you to take this test.

b) He is dumb. Even if you blew off a test like this, if you had any amount of brains, a 10-15 is achievable with minimal effort.

c) He may be a liability for digesting a playbook and/or in-season/in-game adjustments.

WRT Les Miles defense, I have no idea how complex the assignments were that were specifically given to Claiborne. None. I doubt that you much more of an idea.

By no means do I think the Wonderlic means a great deal for most players once you hit a certain level. But if you slip below that bar, there is a huge flag that needs to be raised. Why and how does a person come out appearing to be that stupid?

It's easy to discount the Wonderlic as a message board drafter. But for someone whose job it is to find the best talent for your team, it matters a great deal. You need to do your due diligence on all flags that are raised (mental, physical, medical, emotional) to ensure that a multimillion dollar investment isn't completely wasted.

For someone like Claiborne, he's a great college DB who has some sick skills. I don't think the bad score will hurt him a great deal, especially if it's determined that he can pick up a playbook and digest it. But if I was considering drafting him, then I'd make sure I grilled the hell out of him.

But discounting a terrible score is just lazy thinking.
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Old 04-03-2012, 11:23 AM    (permalink
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I was under the impression that if you score under 24 that isn't good and anything below 20 is borderline ********. Maybe I am wrong, I only took the SAT.
A 24 on the ACT would make you one of the smartest ten people in the state of Mississippi.
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Old 04-03-2012, 11:39 AM    (permalink
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If I want somebody to take a test for me, I'll call up Patrick Witt.

If I want somebody to shut down an opposing teams number one receiver, I'm going to call Morris Claiborne.

Honestly, corners, specifically island corners like Claiborne, don't need to be smart. Deion Sanders use to take naps and not pay attention in meetings. He would say 'I got this one guy, you guys worry about the rest of the field.' Do you need to be a rocket science to do that? No, you need to be an athlete.
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Old 04-03-2012, 11:54 AM    (permalink
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Claiborne has a learning disability that affects his reading skills. It is well documented by his former high school and by LSU:

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/...est-score.html
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Old 04-03-2012, 12:00 PM    (permalink
Don Vito
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeJoeBrown View Post
A 24 on the ACT would make you one of the smartest ten people in the state of Mississippi.
I'm probably not a certified genius like you are but I got a 1860 on the SAT and that is the equivalent of a 28 or 29 ACT I think. Decent score but there are a ton of people who do better, I would think anything below a 20 on the ACT is pretty bad.
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Old 04-03-2012, 12:02 PM    (permalink
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You guys are making me feel old...I took the SAT in the last year of the 1600 maximum.
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Old 04-03-2012, 12:03 PM    (permalink
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A low score on the WOnderlic is just that; a low score.

Whatever predictive powers you want to ascribe to the test after the fact are up to you.

Standardized tests are just a measure, of what most of the time it's hard to say.
Except for QBs it's just doesn't matter.

Claiborne can read, took classes, knew his playbook at LSU and executed it at a high level. That's the only cognitive analysis I really care about.


But you guys keep praying at the altar of Wonderlic.

Just don't forget to interview his coaches, a couple of his teachers and watch his game film.
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Old 04-03-2012, 12:06 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Shane P. Hallam View Post
Claiborne has a learning disability that affects his reading skills. It is well documented by his former high school and by LSU:

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/...est-score.html
Oops.
Claiborne can read, sort of.

I still think he blew it off and he and his agent are spinning, but whatever.
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Old 04-03-2012, 12:13 PM    (permalink
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Oops.
Claiborne can read, sort of.

I still think he blew it off and he and his agent are spinning, but whatever.
It was documented while he was in high school.
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Old 04-03-2012, 12:16 PM    (permalink
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The closest thing any of you nerds have ever been to a mouthpiece or a jockstrap is when the dude wearing them walked by and stuffed a twinkie in your pocket protectors....

Blaine Gabbert supposedly scored a 42 on the Wonderlic and he couldn't play football if his life depended on it... he's smart enough to get his a** out of the way when a pass rush is coming :^)
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