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View Poll Results: Do you agree with Cosell (Floyd>Blackmon)?
Yes 42 49.41%
No 35 41.18%
Unsure 8 9.41%
Voters: 85. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-09-2012, 11:06 AM    (permalink
JoeJoeBrown
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Originally Posted by ron292120 View Post
The Crabtree comparison is just convenient for lazy people IMO. Yes hes approx. the same size, and he came out of the same conf. and style of offense. But they are not similar players. Blackmon is much more sudden running routes, and much more physical. He is also much more competitive.

I like Michael Floyd, but all I know is this. In the biggest game of the year, he was standing on the sidelines while hurt as his team was trying to come back. Conversely, Blackmon--who we were told had a pretty troublesome leg before the bowl game--went out and played. Not only did he play--and not only did he put up huge numbers in the game and was probably the MVP of the game--but when his team got down early, he was over on the sidelines getting on his team and waking them up. And then he did what a leader does after chewing his team out-- he lead by example and made the play that turned the momentum. Meanwhile, Floyd was standing on the sidelines in a parka. That may be harsh, and it may be even unfair to some extent--but its reality in the NFL.

Blackmon is the "freak out" prospect this year to me. He's not a Top 6 type of talent,they say. He's not Andre Johnson he's not Calvin Johnson. Yeah, no kidding. There is a reason for that. They are great receivers like Blackmon is IMO, and ALSO they are physical freaks. Those guys do not grow on trees. The reason those guys are brought up is because they don't come around very often. People bring up AJ Green and Julio Jones from last season. He's not as good as them. Probably not, but IMO he is not that far off. Green and Blackmon ran similar 40 times. Personally, I'd say Green is a better route runner, but I would say Blackmon is a little shiftier. But AJ Green is 6'4" and Blackmon is only 6"1", right?? Well I'm sure many of you saw the SportsScience piece they did on Blackmon. They showed that he can actually highpoint a ball HIGHER than Plaxico Burress--even though Burress was 6"5". My point is that the differences are much more minor than people are making them.
Lastly, people are probably right in one respect, he probably shouldn't be a top 6 guy in most drafts. He wouldn't have been last season. But people are forgetting that we are talking this seasons draft. Who is more elite that should bump him down really?? Ryan Tannehill?? Melvin Ingram?? Dontari Poe???(measurables yes.Production.No). Riley Reiff??? Point is they do not exist in this draft.its the two QBs, its Richardson, its Kalil, it's Claiborne and then maybe Blackmon and then a group of 30 guys relatively equal.
Excellent opinion piece.

There is a huge percentage of people on NFLDC that fall in love with measurables and forget actual production.

Floyd is more physically gifted than Blackmon, but in no way is he currently the better receiver. And I doubt that he ever will be.

The best NFL WRs rarely have the best measurables (outside of the freaks of nature like Megatron and AJ). They excel in a bunch of different things that make a WR successful, but aren't necessarily elite in any one category.

Holistic vs compartmentalized views. Holistic always wins out.
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Old 04-09-2012, 11:31 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by CDCB14 View Post
Dez was 6'2 and 7/8'' and 227 pounds at his pro day and combine. Blackmon was 6' 0 7/8'' and 207 pounds at the combine. Dez is better at everything Blackmon does best and he is far more explosive (1.40 ten yard split, 38 inch vert, 11ft. 2 inch broad jump is ridiculous explosiveness)

Dez is in another class than Blackmon. Period.
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Originally Posted by broth223 View Post
Lets start at the measurables

Heights
Bryant: 6'2"
Blackmon: 6'1 1/8"

Weight
Bryant: 224lbs
Blackmon: 204lbs

40 yard dash
Bryant: 4.52
Blackmon: 4.46

10 yard split
Bryant: 1.53
Blackmon: 1.53

Vert
Bryant: 38
Blackmon: 35

They are nearly identical based off from a physical point of view entering the NFL draft

Well what about stats?

2011 121Rec 1522yds 12.6avg 18TDs
2010 111Rec 1782yds 16.1avg 20TDS

Dez's one full good season?

2008 87Rec 1480Yds 17.0avg 19TDs

So production similar but benefits Blackmon physical tools similar slightly favor Bryant. Tell me again how Bryant is so clearly better as a prospect (outside of character) than Blackmon is.
I'm not sure where you are getting your numbers but those are the numbers I got. IMO Dez is not far and away a better prospect. It has become very trendy lately to question Blackmon. He went from being maybe slightly over valued to very undervalued based on how so many people are now calling him over rated.
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Old 04-09-2012, 11:34 AM    (permalink
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never got the crabtree comparison. no only do i agree with ron21220, i always thought crabtree was one of the most fluid runners after the catch. crabtree after the catch was the one of the best as far as finding running lanes.
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Old 04-09-2012, 11:46 AM    (permalink
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I'm not sure what it is about Blackmon that people seem to be so unsure of. To me, he's repeatedly measured up to every possible test that has been asked. He had back to back stellar seasons at the NCAA level, he has good size and better speed then most expected, and he's far and away the most technically sound receiver in this draft. I don't know where the misconception came from that he runs poor routes or lacks concentration...I've never seen either of those issues on tape. I spent alot of time looking at Blackmon last season as a possible candidate for the Ravens, and I tell you...Very few prospects understand the technicalities of the receiver position like Blackmon does. He perpetually runs crisp routes, he sinks his hips coming in and out of his breaks, he moves quickly and aggressively to the ball, and he's violent with the ball in his hands.

I love Michael Floyd as much as the next guy and I actually had him as my #1 draft eligible receiver ahead of AJ Green and Julio Jones for some of last season (I had Blackmon ahead of Jones as well, and still would), but I don't think he plays the position nearly as well as Blackmon does at this point. Great blocker and some of the best body control and positioning we've seen (Very in line with AJ Green and Dez Bryant), but if you're looking for a top prospect who doesn't run great routes, it's Floyd. Every time he runs something longer down the field, it gets rounded off.

I'd happily take Justin Blackmon over Julio Jones and never look back. I seem to be the only one feeling that way, but it wouldn't be a question. I think the Hakeem Nicks/Young Anquan Boldin comparisons are spot on, and I certainly wouldn't hesitate to draft that player Top 10.

Simply put, not everyone is Randy Moss.
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Old 04-09-2012, 12:48 PM    (permalink
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I'm not sure what it is about Blackmon that people seem to be so unsure of. To me, he's repeatedly measured up to every possible test that has been asked. He had back to back stellar seasons at the NCAA level, he has good size and better speed then most expected, and he's far and away the most technically sound receiver in this draft. I don't know where the misconception came from that he runs poor routes or lacks concentration...I've never seen either of those issues on tape. I spent alot of time looking at Blackmon last season as a possible candidate for the Ravens, and I tell you...Very few prospects understand the technicalities of the receiver position like Blackmon does. He perpetually runs crisp routes, he sinks his hips coming in and out of his breaks, he moves quickly and aggressively to the ball, and he's violent with the ball in his hands.

I love Michael Floyd as much as the next guy and I actually had him as my #1 draft eligible receiver ahead of AJ Green and Julio Jones for some of last season (I had Blackmon ahead of Jones as well, and still would), but I don't think he plays the position nearly as well as Blackmon does at this point. Great blocker and some of the best body control and positioning we've seen (Very in line with AJ Green and Dez Bryant), but if you're looking for a top prospect who doesn't run great routes, it's Floyd. Every time he runs something longer down the field, it gets rounded off.

I'd happily take Justin Blackmon over Julio Jones and never look back. I seem to be the only one feeling that way, but it wouldn't be a question. I think the Hakeem Nicks/Young Anquan Boldin comparisons are spot on, and I certainly wouldn't hesitate to draft that player Top 10.

Simply put, not everyone is Randy Moss.
Spot freaking on.
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Old 04-09-2012, 10:54 PM    (permalink
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Here is the ONE game we can watch where a DB played PRESS man2man against him. He averaged 9.9. YPC in double overtime.

www.bigcatcountry.com/2012/3/3...-nfl-draft-2012

"This is just one game for Blackmon, but it's more indicative of what he's going to face in regards to NFL defenses as it's one of the few times he face actual "man" coverage while at Oklahoma State. If you watch the cut up in it's entirety you'll see where Blackmon does most of his damage, which is underneath eating up 7-yard cushions with quick passing. To me, that's just not what I want out of a receiver I'm picking in the Top 10. I want a guy who can threaten from the entire route tree, not just the underneath stuff."


Read the article and watch the vids. Then tell me Dez Bryant or AJ Green would've been held like that against a 5'9 corner who ran 4.71 at the Combine.

And I Challenge the Blackmon is ELITE crowd to look at the film. Show me some amazing catches AWAY FROM HIS BODY.....good luck. You can't find them because....THEY AREN'T THERE!

They are there for Floyd, AJ Green, Dez Bryant and Julio Jones.

Blackmon is High End #2 WR in the NFL and a BORDERLINE #1 on a Team with a WCO. He is closer to Crabtree as a prospect than he is to AJ Green....ON FILM.

Look up Crabtree on Youbtube...then AJ Green or Dez Bryant. Then tell me who you see more of. It's pretty simple really.

Blackmon NEVER does anything that makes you say...WOW!! (And running OPEN by 25 yards against Stanford isn't impressive).

He is the #2 WR in this draft and therefore isn't worthy of a top 5 pick.

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Old 04-09-2012, 11:04 PM    (permalink
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PLEASE post FACTS!

Blackmon was 6'0 and 7/8ths at the Combine.

He is UNDER 6'1.

I'm pretty sure There hasn't been a Wide Reciever drafted in the TOP 5 that was under 6'1 since THE MERGER in 1970.

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Old 04-09-2012, 11:13 PM    (permalink
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PLEASE post FACTS!

Blackmon was 6'0 and 7/8ths at the Combine.

He is UNDER 6'1.

I'm pretty sure There hasn't been a Wide Reciever drafted in the TOP 5 that was under 6'1 since THE MERGER in 1970.
This depends on your source. Draft Countdown results have him 6007 other places in which it is against the rules for me to mention have him 6011 but is a team REALLY going to say " I like him but he is just 1/8 an inch too short." come on now. As long as we are talking FACTS here the fact is no GM is going to say that.
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oh please. as if canadians even know what beer is.
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Old 04-09-2012, 11:18 PM    (permalink
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PLEASE post FACTS!

Blackmon was 6'0 and 7/8ths at the Combine.

He is UNDER 6'1.

I'm pretty sure There hasn't been a Wide Reciever drafted in the TOP 5 that was under 6'1 since THE MERGER in 1970.
Torry Holt was drafted #6 in 1999 and Peter Warrick was drafted #4 in 2000

Oh and Ike Hilliard and Terry Glenn were drafted #7 overall in the late 90's.
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Old 04-09-2012, 11:23 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Inspector71 View Post
PLEASE post FACTS!

Blackmon was 6'0 and 7/8ths at the Combine.

He is UNDER 6'1.

I'm pretty sure There hasn't been a Wide Reciever drafted in the TOP 5 that was under 6'1 since THE MERGER in 1970.
I actually looked it up (because ****, it's either that or I can actually do productive work). Since 1970, seven WRs have been drafted in the top-5 who were below 6'1", and only two since 1984: Peter Warrick in 2000, Desmond Howard in 1992, Irving Fryar and Kenny Jackson in 1984, Lam Jones in 1980, Jerry Butler in 1979, and Wes Chandler in 1978.

Also, 1988 is to WRs what 1983 is to QBs. Tim Brown, Sterling Sharpe, Michael Irvin, and Anthony Miller -- all of them went top-15, and all of them went to at least five Pro Bowls. Sick.

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Old 04-10-2012, 06:51 AM    (permalink
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Old 04-10-2012, 06:56 AM    (permalink
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Всем Привет! Уважаемые просьба помогите мне, у меня есть один человек который должен мне денег, он упорно скрывается. Телефоны мои с которых я звоню не берет и всячески пытается увельнуть от ответственности и чувства долга. Я помог ему когда он нуждался во мне. Пожалуйста позвоните ему и скажите чтобы он вернул мне долг.

Вот его телефон +7-988-7620-414

All Hello! Dear, please help me, I have a man who owes me money, he insists on hiding. My phone with which I am calling does not accept, and tries to uvelnut of responsibility and sense of duty. I helped him when he needed me. Please call him and tell him to return me to duty.

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Old 04-10-2012, 01:46 PM    (permalink
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No one considers 6 feet and 7/8th as under 6'1. That's 6'1 for most measurements on the nose
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Old 04-10-2012, 04:18 PM    (permalink
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who gives a **** about where 6'1" players are drafted.. look at what kind of damage 6 footers (and under) do in the league. size helps but you can beat that with good tools (footwork, route running, adjusting, quickness, etc.)
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Old 04-11-2012, 11:00 AM    (permalink
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Blackmon is a better prospect than Floyd even if you ignore the character issues which teams won't. There isn't a huge difference but there is a difference. Blackmon is a much smoother route runner and doesn't show the stiffness Floyd does out of his breaks. Blackmon is compared to Nix of the Giants, TO and Bolden and Floyd isn't but Floyd if he can control his alcoholism, can still be a very productive WR and is the best blocking WR in the draft, an added plus.
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Old 04-11-2012, 11:24 AM    (permalink
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Blackmon is a better prospect than Floyd even if you ignore the character issues which teams won't. There isn't a huge difference but there is a difference. Blackmon is a much smoother route runner and doesn't show the stiffness Floyd does out of his breaks. Blackmon is compared to Nix of the Giants, TO and Bolden and Floyd isn't but Floyd if he can control his alcoholism, can still be a very productive WR and is the best blocking WR in the draft, an added plus.
Floyd is a strong blocker when he gets to the spot, but he misses too many blocks to be the best blocking WR in the draft. He can deliver a big block, but he also has a habit of missing blocks going for the big hit and not getting to the spot in order to make a block.

That said, I agree with everything else you wrote.
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Old 04-11-2012, 10:42 PM    (permalink
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Torry Holt was drafted #6 in 1999 and Peter Warrick was drafted #4 in 2000

Oh and Ike Hilliard and Terry Glenn were drafted #7 overall in the late 90's.
I was being sarcastic about the millimeter's but I guess a smiley face was in order.

But still, the likes of Ike hilliard, Peter Warrick and Terry Glenn aren't helping the case for Blackmon.
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Old 04-11-2012, 10:47 PM    (permalink
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who gives a **** about where 6'1" players are drafted.. look at what kind of damage 6 footers (and under) do in the league. size helps but you can beat that with good tools (footwork, route running, adjusting, quickness, etc.)
Ridiculous argument. Would you argue that players with James Harrison's measurements should be Top 5 picks?

Just because the PRODUCTION of similar sized players in the League may be great, it doesn't change the VALUE of a PROSPECT.

The FACT is that in Today's NFL, for a WR to go in the Top 10 he needs to have ELITE measurments.

Of course there are exceptions to the rule.
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Old 04-11-2012, 11:13 PM    (permalink
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The problem with undersized players is they tend to acquire lots of injuries (small ones too) that hinder their career. A few good years and then bam. They can't stay healthy. And then they've lost a step.
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Old 04-12-2012, 12:27 AM    (permalink
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except for the fact that Floyd is the one that has missed significant time with injury not Blackmon
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Old 04-12-2012, 08:55 PM    (permalink
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Floyds a better leader, runs better routes, and has more consistent hands in clutch situations.
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Old 04-12-2012, 09:03 PM    (permalink
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Talent wise, yes. It's not a land slide, so the safer pick would be Justin bc of Mike's potential character flaws (which I don't think will be a problem at all).
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Old 04-13-2012, 11:14 PM    (permalink
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Talent wise, yes. It's not a land slide, so the safer pick would be Justin bc of Mike's potential character flaws (which I don't think will be a problem at all).
They both have ONE DUI, so what character flaws?
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Old 04-13-2012, 11:28 PM    (permalink
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They both have ONE DUI, so what character flaws?
Floyd has had three separate issues with the police involving alcohol including a driving while intoxicated where he blew a .19, more than twice the legal limit.

Blackmon was cited for driving under the influence where he was never tested because the police did not think he was close to over the legal limit.

I think it is pretty clear that some people are concerned that there is more of a pattern of alcohol issues with Floyd. I am sure some others will consider it a minor issue. That is part of what makes all this interesting.
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Old 04-17-2012, 02:59 AM    (permalink
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I stated they both had a DUI. That is factual. Whatever issue you want to make out of Character it isn't part of the conversation at this point.

Talk about them as players. Who will be the better pro?

I will take Floyd everyday and twice on Sundays.
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