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Old 03-29-2007, 01:43 PM    (permalink
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Old 03-29-2007, 01:52 PM    (permalink
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Old 03-29-2007, 01:55 PM    (permalink
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absolutely. but again, i'm not sure you can quantitatively say that lambert was less dominant than any other guy you'd put in the top 5 or that he affected the game any less (those hits are illegal for a reason, just like the head slaps that deacon jones used). i just have a hard time buying that, once you get down to the top 3-5 guys at a spot, that there's any realistic way to order them other than personal preference.
Some positions are harder than others, sure. I think MLB is one of the hardest positions to rate.

I think Rice is unaminously the best WR ever, and LT the best rushbacker ever. But then positions like QB, DT, MIKE, etc can be rather difficult.

It depends on the talent at hand I guess. And often at times, it is based more on preference than actual fact. Makes for great conversation either way.
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Old 03-29-2007, 02:38 PM    (permalink
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Some positions are harder than others, sure. I think MLB is one of the hardest positions to rate.

I think Rice is unaminously the best WR ever, and LT the best rushbacker ever. But then positions like QB, DT, MIKE, etc can be rather difficult.

It depends on the talent at hand I guess. And often at times, it is based more on preference than actual fact. Makes for great conversation either way.
There are very few GOATs that are commonly accepted. Even Jim Brown is losing that recognition from newer fans to the game, and it disgusts me. Maybe in 10 years people start forgetting about Rice too. The easiests GOATs at positions for me are:

RB - Jim Brown
WR - Jerry Rice
LT - Anthony Munoz
LB/DE - Lawrence Taylor
S - Ronnie Lott
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Old 03-29-2007, 02:59 PM    (permalink
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I don't think Brown is a clear cut GOAT. Walter Payton, Barry Sanders, and Jim Brown all have arguments for GOAT. Barry Sanders, to me, is without a doubt the best RUNNER of them all. Is that enough to give him the GOAT crown? I don't think so. Jim Brown was a better overall back than Sanders, but Sanders did so much with no offensive line and QBs the likes of Scott Mitchell. Not to mention Jim Brown was the size of the lineman he played against. I have Barry Sanders and Jim Brown as 1A and 1B.
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Old 03-29-2007, 03:02 PM    (permalink
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Jim Brown is another product of being much bigger than his competitors. He's like Walt Chamberlin to me; completely dominant at his time, but not the greatest because of that.

Plus he hit women. Anyone that hits women is completely whiped off my list of anything good.
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Old 03-29-2007, 03:24 PM    (permalink
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Jim Brown is another product of being much bigger than his competitors. He's like Walt Chamberlin to me; completely dominant at his time, but not the greatest because of that.

Plus he hit women. Anyone that hits women is completely whiped off my list of anything good.
And Wilt is considered one of the GOATs. I don't know why you would hold someone of exceptional physical gifts back just for being born that way.

He hit women, yes. He has also done more to end gang violence single handedly than anyone before him, was the first black action star, and was a Playgirl centerfold. What's not to like?
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Old 03-29-2007, 03:59 PM    (permalink
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You can't take personal lives into account. Thered be a whole lot of NFL players you would have to reject if thats the case.

As far as Barry Sanders, goes, this is one of the big misconceptions of him: he had no oline.

That is not true. The problem was, ironically, Sanders had no vision. He would continually not hit the proper hole, and would rather dance in the backfield to try to break a long run.

Thats why he was an inconsistent runner. There were many times he couldve gotten 4, but thats not Barry. He rather dance and try to get 80. Thats my main issue with him.

None the less, he had his best year when he finally got a FB to show him the way. Not surprising since his vision was below average.

As for Jim Brown. He was the best ever. Arguably the most dominant offensive player in NFL history. Yeah he was bigger than everyone, but we can't hold that against him.
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Old 03-29-2007, 04:13 PM    (permalink
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You can't take personal lives into account. Thered be a whole lot of NFL players you would have to reject if thats the case.
I can do whatever I want. I could care less if players do drugs or aren't nice people, gamble, carry guns, "make it rain", whatever. However, if you beat women or drive drunk you are not eligible for any sort of praise from me. Be lucky you aren't in jail and leave it at that.
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Old 03-29-2007, 04:16 PM    (permalink
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I can do whatever I want. I could care less if players do drugs or aren't nice people, gamble, carry guns, "make it rain", whatever. However, if you beat women or drive drunk you are not eligible for any sort of praise from me. Be lucky you aren't in jail and leave it at that.
Is there something you wanna tell us BF51?

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Old 03-29-2007, 04:18 PM    (permalink
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i don't buy that barry ever had an o-line. he didn't have NO o-line (lomas brown was a pretty good LT), but it wasn't collectively ever better than mediocre.
It was average. Maybe a little below average. Not 2007 Oakland Raider bad though.
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Old 03-29-2007, 04:29 PM    (permalink
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I can do whatever I want. I could care less if players do drugs or aren't nice people, gamble, carry guns, "make it rain", whatever. However, if you beat women or drive drunk you are not eligible for any sort of praise from me. Be lucky you aren't in jail and leave it at that.
Not to seem overly assholeish, but this whole idea of feminism is amusing to me. What I'm about to say isn't something I openly advocate. Just pointing out some inconsistencies.

If everybody wants women to be viewed as men's "equals," yet they want more severe punishments for hitting a woman instead of a man.

Also, in order to get a job as, say, a police officer, one must pass a variety a physical tests. The qualifications for women are far, far easier than those that men are forced to pass.

If feminists are really clamoring for equality, then it should be equality throughout everything. Is it really fair to let women pick and choose the parts that they want to be equal, and then use the rest to their advantage?
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Old 03-29-2007, 04:36 PM    (permalink
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Not to seem overly assholeish, but this whole idea of feminism is amusing to me. What I'm about to say isn't something I openly advocate. Just pointing out some inconsistencies.

If everybody wants women to be viewed as men's "equals," yet they want more severe punishments for hitting a woman instead of a man.

Also, in order to get a job as, say, a police officer, one must pass a variety a physical tests. The qualifications for women are far, far easier than those that men are forced to pass.

If feminists are really clamoring for equality, then it should be equality throughout everything. Is it really fair to let women pick and choose the parts that they want to be equal, and then use the rest to their advantage?

Ugh...I HATE feminists. But let's leave that out of this thread. I propose you make a separate thread on that in off topic.
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Old 03-29-2007, 04:39 PM    (permalink
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Ugh...I HATE feminists. But let's leave that out of this thread. I propose you make a separate thread on that in off topic.
I don't even want to, as I doubt people on here would even care. In fact, I don't even care that much. I just feel like if you're going to ***** about wanting equality, then you better not complain when you get total equality.

Now - resume thread. Sorry for hijacking.
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Old 03-29-2007, 04:41 PM    (permalink
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i think, in comparison to any other running back you'd consider even top 20, it was likely the worst collection of overall talent (though i'm open to discussion). i'd also say that, as a result of the schemes run, a fair number of the plays weren't your typical drive block plays that would have given barry a wide open lane to run through. the run and shoot offense wasn't really known so much for being a great "run" offense. barry never even had a fullback until his later years, something that is basically unheard of today.
That is all true. I can't deny the sucktitude of the Lion's front office and their inept coaching.

RB is a toughy. Id go with Brown, but I guess a legit argument can be made for Sanders.
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Old 03-29-2007, 04:43 PM    (permalink
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i think, in comparison to any other running back you'd consider even top 20, it was likely the worst collection of overall talent (though i'm open to discussion). i'd also say that, as a result of the schemes run, a fair number of the plays weren't your typical drive block plays that would have given barry a wide open lane to run through. the run and shoot offense wasn't really known so much for being a great "run" offense. barry never even had a fullback until his later years, something that is basically unheard of today.
At the same time, though, the run-n-shoot offense should have been ideal for a back like Barry, as it spreads the defense out and opens up huge cutback lanes.
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Old 03-29-2007, 04:47 PM    (permalink
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You guys have a really warped idea of what most feminists are like. In fact, I would argue that about 80-85% of the population of the U.S, as ignorant as it is, are feminists. It just gets a bad rep because of the way it's portrayed.

In regards to physical abuse, women that cause physical harm to their partners are equally prosecuted. The fact is that most men will not report that out of embaressment because of how macho our society is. It's the same thing with cases of underage sex. It's not women that aren't equally prosecuting it, in fact they are much more virulent, it's men that think 30 year old women that sleep with 14 year old boys are "cool".
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Old 03-29-2007, 04:48 PM    (permalink
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Not to seem overly assholeish, but this whole idea of feminism is amusing to me. What I'm about to say isn't something I openly advocate. Just pointing out some inconsistencies.

If everybody wants women to be viewed as men's "equals," yet they want more severe punishments for hitting a woman instead of a man.

Also, in order to get a job as, say, a police officer, one must pass a variety a physical tests. The qualifications for women are far, far easier than those that men are forced to pass.

If feminists are really clamoring for equality, then it should be equality throughout everything. Is it really fair to let women pick and choose the parts that they want to be equal, and then use the rest to their advantage?
QFT.

Now back to your regularly scheduled program...
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Old 03-29-2007, 04:51 PM    (permalink
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You guys have a really warped idea of what most feminists are like. In fact, I would argue that about 80-85% of the population of the U.S, as ignorant as it is, are feminists. It just gets a bad rep because of the way it's portrayed.
Then you're warping the definition of feminism. I believe it is understood when you mean "feminist" that you mean someone who emphasizes women's rights and actively tries to advance such. The 80-85% percent who you are talking about are people off the street who say "Yeah, I'm for women's rights." They don't count in the traditional definition.

Eh, we really shouldn't be talking about this, but I had to take a stab...
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Old 03-29-2007, 04:57 PM    (permalink
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Then you're warping the definition of feminism. I believe it is understood when you mean "feminist" that you mean someone who emphasizes women's rights and actively tries to advance such. The 80-85% percent who you are talking about are people off the street who say "Yeah, I'm for women's rights." They don't count in the traditional definition.

Eh, we really shouldn't be talking about this, but I had to take a stab...
No, you just don't understand what the traditional definition is. You can't take a stab at me. Not when it comes to this.

And I would say that 80-85% of people do empathize (I'm guessing that is what you meant) with the fact that women are still paid less and are less likely to recieve promotions than men are. Whether or not they are actively trying to change that is another story. I'm very strongly against genocide, that doesn't mean I'm going to Sudan anytime soon.
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Old 03-29-2007, 05:14 PM    (permalink
someone447
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No, you just don't understand what the traditional definition is. You can't take a stab at me. Not when it comes to this.

And I would say that 80-85% of people do empathize (I'm guessing that is what you meant) with the fact that women are still paid less and are less likely to recieve promotions than men are. Whether or not they are actively trying to change that is another story. I'm very strongly against genocide, that doesn't mean I'm going to Sudan anytime soon.
There is a legitimate reason that women are paid less and promoted less then men. It is a proven fact that women take more time off work(granted it is maternity leave) then men do. It is also proven that women are in lower paying professions on average. Doctors, Lawyers, etc are all primarily men. Teachers are primarily women. Notice why the average amount a woman makes is less?

Women 25 years of age and over have been with their current employer 4.4 years, on average, compared to 5.0 years for men.


Women are also more likely to work part-time. In 2000, one-quarter of all women employees worked part-time, compared to less than 10 percent of men.

Among people ages 27 to 33 who have never had a child, women's earnings approach 98 percent of men's. So fine, there is a VERY slight difference when everything is equal.

http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba/ba392/

You guys are using different definitions of feminism. BF51, you are using the traditional definition. Feminism hasn't been run by traditional feminists since probably before the 70's. If you ask someone what they consider feminism, the VAST majority would talk about the bra burning feminists, or feminazi's. The feminazi's are a plague on the traditional notion of feminism, which in itself is a good thing. But once you start getting the women who want men to be discriminated against, is where you have a problem.

Stoner, that is exactly how I feel. If women want completely equal rights, sign up with selective services. There are some things that men are better at then women, period. Physical activities for one. Make all those jobs have the same criteria for men and women. I'll take your example of firefighters. I want to know that if I am unconcious in a burning building, EVERY SINGLE ONE of those firefighters are able to carry me out. If a woman has to meet lower standards, those standards better still be enough to carry an almost 200 lb man out of a burning building if the job so requires.

Sanders had a mediocre, at best, offensive line during his entire career. Not to mention, he was on the most inept franchise in league history.
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Old 03-29-2007, 05:27 PM    (permalink
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Dammit people, no more feminism in this thread. Take your hippie idealogies and we are the world bs to off topic.



Back on topic.
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Old 03-29-2007, 05:29 PM    (permalink
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that is one dusty field. the groundskeepers should be fired.
Im guessing it was a baseball field that some teams play on.
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Old 03-30-2007, 12:59 AM    (permalink
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Lambert is actually a cousin of mine, how kick ass is that!
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