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Old 04-13-2012, 06:09 PM    (permalink
ATLDirtyBirds
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Default ATL's 2012 Rankings.

Plan on following this up post draft with a revised edition based on where they end up and how I like the scheme/coach fit.

QB.
1. Andrew Luck
2. Robert Griffin III
3. Ryan Tannehill
4. Brandon Weeden
5. BJ Coleman
6. Russell Wilson
7. Kirk Cousins
8. Brock Osweiler
9. Ryan Lindley
10. Nick Foles
11. Aaron Corp
12. Austin Davis
Notes: I’m a big fan of BJ Coleman as a developmental guy. Perfect pick for Denver. Also really like Russell Wilson as a backup for a WCO.

RB.
1. Trent Richardson
2. Lamar Miller
3. David Wilson
4. Doug Martin
5. Isaiah Pead
6. Robert Turbin
7. Chris Polk
8. LaMichael James
9. Ronnie Hillman
10. Benard Pierce
11. Michael Smith
12. Dan Herron
13. Taurean Pool
14. Michael Smith
15. Vick Ballard
Notes: Wilson’s running style concerns me to a degree, boom/bust. Miller in ZBS=stud. Pead is going to make an impact as a 3rd down back, early, more later.

WR.
1. Justin Blackmon
2. Kendall Wright
3. Stephen Hil
4. Rueben Randle
5. Michael Floyd
6. Devon Wylie
7. Mo Sanu
8. Alshon Jeffrey
9. Greg Childs
10. Joe Adams
11. Tommy Streeter
12. Marvin Jones
13. Ryan Broyles
14. Chris Givens
15. AJ Jenkins
16. Jarius Wright
17. Brian Quick
18. TY Hilton
19. BJ Cunningham
20. TJ Graham
Notes: Tried to isolate player/talents as much as possible. Feel as if WRs this year especially are highly dependent on scheme/usage, especially in that middle cluster. (Each ARK receiver brings something different to the table for example.)
TE.
1. Coby Fleener
2. Orson Charles
3. Dwayne Allen
4. LaDarius Green
5. Chase Ford
6. Michael Egnew
7. DeAngelo Peterson
8. James Hanna
9. Rhett Ellison
10. Brian Linthicum
Note: Didn't think it was fair to list the SMU convert (Taylor Thompson)

OT.
1. Matt Kalil
2. Cordy Glenn
3. Mike Adams
4. Riley Reiff
5. Bobbie Massie
6. Mitchell Schwartz
7. Jeff Allen
8. James Brown
9. Nate Potter
10. Jonathan Martin
11. Andrew Datko
12. James Carmon
13. Zebrie Sanders
14. Donald Stephenson
15. Matt McCants

Notes: Martin massively overrated. James Brown as a sleeper. Massie’s stock can only go up based on the situation he winds up in. Can stick at LT.

OG.
1. David DeCastro
2. Amini Silatolu
3. Kelechi Osemele
4. Brandon Washington
5. Brandon Brooks
6. Senio Kelemente
7. Lucas Nix
8. Joe Looney
9. Adam Gettis
10. Tony Bergstrom
Notes: Osmele might be able to play OT, but I love him as a G.

C.
1. Peter Konz
2. Kevin Zeilter
3. Ben Jones
4. David Molk
5. Michael Brewster
6. Quenton Salsberry
7. Phillip Blake
8. David Snow
Notes: If Zeilter can handle it, I like his fit here much better.

Defense.

DE.
1. Quinton Coples
2. Courtney Upshaw
3. Melvin Ingram
4. Nick Perry
5. Vinny Curry
6. Chandler Jones
7. Malik Jackson
8. Andre Branch
9. Cam Johnson
10. Whitney Mercilus
11. Jack Bequette
12. Tyrone Crawford (Prefer him as a 34 DE)
13. Olivier Vernon
14. Jonathan Massaquoi
15. Frank Alexander
Notes: Coples has become massively underrated. In addition to being the best 43 DE in the class, I’d also rank him as the top 43 DT or 34 DE. Kentrall Lockett is a sleeper to keep an eye on.

34 OLB
1. Shea McClellin
2. Melvin Ingram
3. Bruce Irvin
4. Courtney Upshaw
5. Vinny Curry
6. Ronnell Lewis
7. Andre Branch
8. Miles Burris
9. Whitney Mercilus
10. Cam Johnson
11. Brett Roy
Notes: Tried to project guys who teams might try these guys at OLB/how they’d fit (left off a couple I feel much better suited as 43 players like C. Jones, N. Perry). Ingram’s value comes from being ultimate chess piece. Must have creative DC to get most out of him. Shea is a force. Irvin could have an Aldon Smith like impact.

DT.
1. Fletcher Cox
2. Dontari Poe
3. Michael Brockers (34 DE)
4. Alameda Ta’Amu
5. Devon Still
6. Josh Chapman
7. Brandon Thompson
8. Derek Wolfe (34 DE)
9. Jerel Worthy
10. Mike Martin
11. Jared Crick (34 DE)
12. Jaye Howard
13. Kendall Reyes
14. Billy Wynn (34 DE)
15. DaJohn Harris
Notes: Still and Reyes overrated. Ta’Amu beast, best fit 43 NT. If best fit is as 34 DE, see (34 DE)

MLB.
1. Luke Kuechly
2. Mychael Kendricks
3. Donta Hightower
4. James Michael Johnson
5. Vontaze Burfict
6. Emmanual Acho
7. Najee Good
8. Jerry Franklin

OLB.
1. Lavonte David
2. Bobby Wagner
3. Demario Davis
4. Sean Spence
5. Audie Cole
6. Zach Brown
7. Terrell Manning
8. Keenan Robinson
9. Josh Kaddu
10. Nigel Bradham
Notes: Feel as if Wagner is a better fit as an OLB. Demario Davis is a monster. Zach Brown has a lot of desirable qualities, could be good if IDEAL landing spot. Currently a sub par football player

CB.
1. Janoris Jenkins
2. Morris Claiborne
3. Dre Kirkpatrick
4. Stephon Gilmore
5. Brandon Boykin
6. Truamine Johnson
7. Josh Robinson
8. Dwight Bentley
9. Casey Heyward
10. Josh Norman
11. Alonzo Dennard
12. Jamell Fleming
13. Leonard Johnson
14. Jayron Hosely
15. Chase Minnifield
16. Coryell Judie
17. Coty Sensabaugh
18. Ron Brooks
19. Ryan Steed
20. Asa Jackson

S.
1. Mark Barron
2. George Iloka
3. Harrison Smith
4. Markelle Martin
5. Antonio Allen
6. Janzen Jackson
7. Brandon Taylor
8. Tramain Thomas
9. Trenton Robinson
10. Christian Thompson
Notes: Iloka can be the answer to the move TEs of today’s game.

Some of "my guys": Trent Richardson, RG3, Bruce Irvin, George Iloka, Devon Wylie, Demario Davis, Brandon Boykin, Shea McClellin, Isaiah Pead, Lamar Miller. Sleepers: BJ Coleman and James Brown.


And 5 Diamonds In the Rough:

TE Chase Ford, OT James Brown, OLB Brett Roy, RB Dan Herron, DE Malik Jackson

There might not be any future stars in that group, but definitely guys that will contribute and provide value based on where they were picked.


Top 64

1. Andrew Luck
2. Trent Richardson
3. Robert Griffin
4. David DeCastro
5. Janoris Jenkins
6. Fletcher Cox
7. Ryan Tannehill
8. Morris Claiborne
9. Matt Kalil
10. Shea McClellin
11. Lavonte David
12. Quentin Coples
13. Dontari Poe
14. Luke Kuechly
15. Dre Kirkpatrick
16. Mark Barron
17. Justin Blackmon
18. Lamar Miller
19. Kendall Wright
20. Melvin Ingram
21. Stephen Hill
22. Courtney Upshaw
23. Stephon Gilmore
24. Brandon Boykin
25. Bruce Irvin
26. Coby Fleener
27. Ruben Randle
28. Michael Brockers
29. Mike Adams
30. Michael Floyd
31. Amini Silatolu
32. Riley Reiff
33. George Iloka
34. Devon Wylie
35. Peter Konz
36. Trumaine Johnson
37. Mychal Kendricks
38. Orson Charles
39. Alameda Ta’Amu
40. Brandon Washington
41. Josh Chapman
42. Dont’a Hightower
43. Kelechi Osemele
44. David Wilson
45. Doug Martin
46. Mitchell Schwartz
47. Isaiah Pead
48. Mo Sanu
49. Brandon Weeden
50. Nick Perry
51. Vinny Curry
52. Bobby Wagner
53. Josh Robinson
54. Devon Still
55. Dwayne Allen
56. Harrison Smith
57. Jeff Allen
58. Chandler Jones
59. James Brown
60. Andre Branch
61. Malik Jackson
62. Brandon Thompson
63. Alshon Jeffrey
64. Demario Davis
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Old 04-13-2012, 08:12 PM    (permalink
TACKLE
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Can't say I have any real strong objections here other than Coples which we've talked about before.


RB - I'd go Martin over Wilson though I'm not as high on Wilson as some. Our 5-8 is identical

though.
WR - I have some little difference in mine throughout but the only one that I really disagree with (and it pains me to say) is Streeter is too high. He just has no physicality and lacks suddenness which makes me think he's liable to getting owned at the line of scrimmage vs strong press CB's on the next level.

OT - I like it though I would definitely have Adams over Cordy personally but other than that they look right to me.

G - KO as the second guard is interesting. He's massive and super physical so he has a lot of upside there. I still worry a bit about his lateral movement inside because I think he's a little more of a straight line athlete but he has a lot of potential there.

C - I see no reason why Zeitler couldn't play center and play it well.

DE - I really don't love either Coples or Ingram in a 43 though it's tough because there are no clear cut favorites who are great fits there.

DT - I'd bump Chapman and Thompson above Still but other than that I like it a lot.

MLB - No argument here. Mychal is a beast. I probably would have listed Demario as a MLB given that's what he played at Arky State and I wouldn't have had him any lower than 4th and giving Dont'a a run for his money for that 3rd spot.

OLB - Only thing I'll say is that if you listed him there, Mychal would be my #1 OLB. He could be a nasty, attacking WILL in a 43.

34 OLB - Don't see Curry as a 34 OLB? Also glad to see the Brett Roy mention. He can be a player for somebody if he can find the right niche.

CB - I would have Bill Bentley higher but the CB class is a crapshoot so it's hard to have any big issues with the ordering after Kirkpatrick.

S - Where would you rank Kirkpatrick among the safeties?
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Old 04-13-2012, 08:42 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by TACKLE View Post
Can't say I have any real strong objections here other than Coples which we've talked about before.


RB - I'd go Martin over Wilson though I'm not as high on Wilson as some. Our 5-8 is identical

though.
WR - I have some little difference in mine throughout but the only one that I really disagree with (and it pains me to say) is Streeter is too high. He just has no physicality and lacks suddenness which makes me think he's liable to getting owned at the line of scrimmage vs strong press CB's on the next level.

OT - I like it though I would definitely have Adams over Cordy personally but other than that they look right to me.

G - KO as the second guard is interesting. He's massive and super physical so he has a lot of upside there. I still worry a bit about his lateral movement inside because I think he's a little more of a straight line athlete but he has a lot of potential there.

C - I see no reason why Zeitler couldn't play center and play it well.

DE - I really don't love either Coples or Ingram in a 43 though it's tough because there are no clear cut favorites who are great fits there.

DT - I'd bump Chapman and Thompson above Still but other than that I like it a lot.

MLB - No argument here. Mychal is a beast. I probably would have listed Demario as a MLB given that's what he played at Arky State and I wouldn't have had him any lower than 4th and giving Dont'a a run for his money for that 3rd spot.

OLB - Only thing I'll say is that if you listed him there, Mychal would be my #1 OLB. He could be a nasty, attacking WILL in a 43.

34 OLB - Don't see Curry as a 34 OLB? Also glad to see the Brett Roy mention. He can be a player for somebody if he can find the right niche.

CB - I would have Bill Bentley higher but the CB class is a crapshoot so it's hard to have any big issues with the ordering after Kirkpatrick.

S - Where would you rank Kirkpatrick among the safeties?
You and I really seem to be on a similar page.

RB: That's actually one of my undecided areas. I keep flipping, but I'm gambling on the potential of Wilson. I don't like him as much as I liked Ryan Williams, but there's a lot of explosive elements to his game. Although, I would not be shocked if I flipped them before the draft, or after depending on team.

WR: How dare you talk ill of Touchdown Tommy. I agree on the press thing, but he does have some shiftiness off the line. Perhaps I'm biased on him, but I have faith. (Although he will be knocked down in the post draft if he doesn't go to a vertical team). Also curious as to what you think of Wylie? I love him, might move him up even more, but it's tough to have a pure slot too high. **** it, I'm moving him up after this post.


OG: What I saw with Osmele on film was someone who was so focused on stopping the outside rush, that he was so susceptible to getting beat inside. With his size, in a phone booth, he'll be a stud. As I'm sure you've seen, once he gets his hands on you, game over.

DE: I know you and I disagree on Coples. Ingram would scare me if I was a 43 team picking him in the top 10. But I think he'd succeed. Still want to see him with the Jets. Too perfect a fit.

34 OLB: Curry not being there is an oversight, thanks. Although I do prefer him as a 43 DE.

DT: I'm not a Still guy at all, but there's upside there. I anticipate Thompson and Chapman moving ahead of him on the post draft rankings though.

MLB: Demario is one of my favorites from this year. He could play MLB, and I would have him at 3. However, I like him better on the outside.

OLB: Similar story with Kendricks. Agree, but I like him at MLB.

CB: I kept going back and forth on Norman/Bentley. Any insight there? Also, are you a Trumaine guy? He's another one of my guys this year.

S: Dre would be #1.
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Old 04-13-2012, 08:55 PM    (permalink
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why you gots to cut me real deep by having sanu behind wylie, adams and randle?
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Old 04-13-2012, 08:58 PM    (permalink
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why you gots to cut me real deep by having sanu behind wylie, adams and randle?

To be fair, I'm higher on Wylie and Adams than most. Rubs is a future stud though.
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Old 04-13-2012, 09:51 PM    (permalink
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Agree 100% on Iloka. Harrison Smith may still be the 2nd safety selected but I'm not on board with all the hype surrounding him lately, especially the 1st round talk. Plenty of people on these boards have noted how NFL teams will/are changing their outlook on the S position to counter these TEs, then I have to hear that Antonio Allen is a better prospect than Iloka because he's a "box" safety and Iloka isn't a definitive "FS" or "SS". Soon enough, we will no longer distinguish the difference between the two starting safeties on NFL defenses, and Iloka is the 2nd best pure prospect at the position after Barron, who still may end up having a lesser NFL career.
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Old 04-21-2012, 10:45 AM    (permalink
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Updated with a few changes. Massie keeps moving up for me, don't forget about Greg Childs, Bill Bentley would be a really nice 2nd rounder, etc.


And here's 10 of "my guys"

Trent Richardson, RG3, Bruce Irvin, George Iloka, Devon Wylie, Demario Davis, Brandon Boykin, Shea McClellin, Isaiah Pead, Lamar Miller. Sleepers: BJ Coleman/James Brown.


And 5 Diamonds In the Rough:

TE Chase Ford, OT James Brown, OLB Brett Roy, RB Dan Herron, DE Malik Jackson

There might not be any future stars in that group, but definitely guys that will contribute and be value based on were they where picked.
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Old 04-21-2012, 11:08 AM    (permalink
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I have such a giant mancrush on Pead.
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Old 04-21-2012, 12:33 PM    (permalink
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Here's my opinion on it:

QB -

Too low for Lindley and Cousins. Two of the most polished and experienced QB's in the draft, and both have the size to compete for starting jobs.

RB -

I think Doug Martin is the #2 RB in the draft this year. Also, I think you've vastly undervalued LaMichael James. Someone will snag him up in round 2.

WR -

I think Kendall Wright's slipped down some draft boards. Meanwhile, Stephen Hill is climbing the charts. I also think you've got Brian Quick and AJ Jenkins hugely underrated.

TE -

In my opinion, there's only 2 TE's in this draft. Coby Fleener and LaDarius Green. Everyone else is merely average to me.

OT -

Mike Adams too high; Jonathon Martin and Nate Potter too low

OG - Looks good to me

C - Looks good, just think you underrated Phillip Blake a bit

DE - Quinten Coples overrated; Chandler Jones underrated.

DT -

If Jerel Worthy is the 9th DT off the board, I'll literally hack my own nuts off with a rusty knife. Not to say that I think too highly of him, but he's not going that low. Also, Dontari Poe is overrated...hugely.

MLB - Looks good...wouldn't even bother putting Vontaze Burfict on there.

OLB - Zach Brown and Keenan Robinson both look a bit underrated to me.

CB -

I think Jenkins is overrated at #2. As is Brandon Boykin. Gilmore is underrated and you might as well take Alfonzo Dennard off the board completely.

S - Love it.
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Old 04-21-2012, 01:09 PM    (permalink
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Not a big Ingram fan. 29 inch arms don't cut it in the NFL. They moved him around to rush the passer in college so they can get him lined up on top of a smaller inferior college OL who won't make the pros. It was a good scheme that maximized his talent.

But in the NFL everyone is big and athletic. He can't rush the passer with those 29 inch arms in the NFL. I'm not saying he's going to be a bust necessarily, but I don't see how he's a 1st round pick. Not with those arms. Arm length is critical for pass rushers, less important for 3-4 OLBs, but still important.

He won't set the edge, he will struggle vs OTs with those small arms. I can see him as potentially a 4-3 SAM rush backer, but again, he'll have to be able to bang against bigger guys in the run game there and those short arms will struggle to separate.

I'm just not sold on Ingram as a 1st round draft pick.
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Old 04-21-2012, 01:18 PM    (permalink
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Not a big Ingram fan. 29 inch arms don't cut it in the NFL. They moved him around to rush the passer in college so they can get him lined up on top of a smaller inferior college OL who won't make the pros. It was a good scheme that maximized his talent.

But in the NFL everyone is big and athletic. He can't rush the passer with those 29 inch arms in the NFL. I'm not saying he's going to be a bust necessarily, but I don't see how he's a 1st round pick. Not with those arms. Arm length is critical for pass rushers, less important for 3-4 OLBs, but still important.

He won't set the edge, he will struggle vs OTs with those small arms. I can see him as potentially a 4-3 SAM rush backer, but again, he'll have to be able to bang against bigger guys in the run game there and those short arms will struggle to separate.

I'm just not sold on Ingram as a 1st round draft pick.
Yeah I'm having a hard time with Ingram as well. I've watched a ton of SCAR, have seen all the Youtube vids but I can't really think of a time he beat the OT one-on-one coming off the edge. He gets sacks off beating guards with his quickness and gets a lot of hustle/chase sacks but he doesn't win those outside 1-on-1 pass rushes. He's a hard guy to bet against given that he's such a fantastic athlete and a very instinctive football player but I don't trust his edge rush ability at all on the next level. Like you, I'm almost more comfortable with him as a 4-3 SAM or a 3-4 ILB (which is where I like him best) than I am with him playing DE/OLB. His value is as a chess piece but at some point he's gotta be able to win in his base position.
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Old 04-21-2012, 01:23 PM    (permalink
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I'll agree with you both in saying i think Ingram is going to bust.
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Old 04-21-2012, 01:26 PM    (permalink
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This is not a good pass rusher draft. I see lots of 2nd round grades on these pass rushers. Nobody is a 1st round pass rusher to me.

The only potential 1st round DE to me is Coples, but there are serious character/effort concerns that makes him a late 1st early 2nd guy to me.

But overall, this is a very mediocre DE draft. Not impressed with it. You're going to have to reach/project on some of these pass rushers and hope you guessed right, bc there are no slam dunk pass rushers available.

The need for pass rush will push a lot of these guys up draft boards, but I just don't see that 1 guy that I'd bang the table for as a pass rusher. I like some of these guys in the 2nd round, maybe the end of the 1st, but every single one of them has something that makes you view them more as 2nd round grades than 1st round guys.
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Old 04-21-2012, 01:29 PM    (permalink
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I like Jonathan Massaquoi a lot more than anyone here. I think he's the 3rd best pass rusher in this draft. Dont ask me why though.
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Old 04-21-2012, 02:25 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
This is not a good pass rusher draft. I see lots of 2nd round grades on these pass rushers. Nobody is a 1st round pass rusher to me.

The only potential 1st round DE to me is Coples, but there are serious character/effort concerns that makes him a late 1st early 2nd guy to me.

But overall, this is a very mediocre DE draft. Not impressed with it. You're going to have to reach/project on some of these pass rushers and hope you guessed right, bc there are no slam dunk pass rushers available.

The need for pass rush will push a lot of these guys up draft boards, but I just don't see that 1 guy that I'd bang the table for as a pass rusher. I like some of these guys in the 2nd round, maybe the end of the 1st, but every single one of them has something that makes you view them more as 2nd round grades than 1st round guys.
On Ingram: I can't say I'm in love with him, unless he goes to the Jets. That's just such a perfect match. If you expect to stick him at one spot and get 10+ sacks, it's just not going to happen.

As far as pass rushing goes, I agree, it's definitely weak. Curious, are you on the Shea train? I'd gladly spend a first on him.

If we're talking pure pass rusher, Bruce Irvin is damn impressive.
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Old 04-21-2012, 02:29 PM    (permalink
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Im definitely on the Shea train. Imagine Shea and Clay. And if Shea grew his hair long!
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Old 04-21-2012, 03:04 PM    (permalink
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I just don't see how people can place Wright ahead of Floyd. If Floyd had RGIII last year we would be talking about him as the top prospect at WR without question.
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Old 04-21-2012, 03:06 PM    (permalink
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I just don't see how people can place Wright ahead of Floyd. If Floyd had RGIII last year we would be talking about him as the top prospect at WR without question.
This is a very good point. But not much people think Wright is better than Floyd anyway.
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Old 04-22-2012, 11:40 AM    (permalink
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Stephon Gilmore is three spots too low.
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Old 04-24-2012, 01:49 PM    (permalink
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I've been working on a Top 50-100 list (which is basically what you'd do in a vacuum), and it's made me completely rethink everything I've compiled.
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Old 04-25-2012, 04:54 PM    (permalink
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Updated with some changes to the rankings and a top 64.
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