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Old 04-23-2012, 07:18 AM    (permalink
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Upshaw 100%

Should not even be selected in the first
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Old 04-23-2012, 07:23 AM    (permalink
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Usually, this is a post where people's judgment can be measured and ridiculous comments are thrown about with nothing to back up their ideas except their own biases.
There are only 3 first round prospects who I have serious questions about and I'll give my reasons:

1) Tannehill - Luck and RG111 took mediocre football programs to new heights and were particularly effective in close games decided in the 4th quarter. Tannehill didn't and was particularly ineffective in the fourth quarter of close games. I really question his leadership skill and whether he has that 'it' factor in close games. He certainly has all the physical tools you could want in a NFL QB prospect but in the end being a successful NFL QB requires leadership and a certain mental toughness which I haven't seen in Tannehill.

Cordy Glenn - I've followed the draft for over 55 years and overweight players have consistently dropped on draft day and generally been rather mediocre as pros. They can look great at the combine and Pro Days where they only have to put on a show for short spurts but in the 4th quarter of real football games, their lack of conditioning really begins to show and their level of play drops off significantly. After all, it is the 4th quarter when many, many football games are won and I have to wonder if Glenn will be that effective at 350lbs. If he weighted 330lbs. I'd put him in my top 10 but I won't be at all shocked to see him end up in round 2 on draft day.

Alshon Jeffery - I wouldn't touch this guy with a ten foot pole. Spurrier's WR's have been rather mediocre as pros and many have been high draft picks. Spurrier's college offensive system makes WR's look a lot better than they really are and when you add in a prospect who couldn't be bothered to get in shape in college and had a lot of difficulty getting separation against college CB's, I really question his success at the next level against far better CB's.

I will add 3 others to this list because of character concerns:

Michael Floyd - I haven't access to his record but on the surface at least, alcohol seems to be a real problem with this guy. I'm sure teams have done their homework on him and know the true extent of his problem. If it's nothing then, I would remove him from my list but I'm just not sure.

Mike Adams - I think he has real potential as a pro but offensive linemen for the most part are the good guys on a football team and you just don't find them involved in drugs. Adams will be tested thoroughly from now on and if caught again faces a 4 game suspension. There were some cconcerns about his work habits and consistency so it raises some red flags for me.

Janoris Jenkins - Talent wise, he is the best CB in this year's draft but he is immature, mouthy and hot tempered. His character is a real concern and maybe I should have him with my top 3. Once this guy gets a huge paycheck, you have to wonder what he will become, can he stay focused on football or will his problems get magnified and become a serious problem for his football team. It will cost him being picked in round 1.
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Old 04-23-2012, 08:26 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by tmljeh19 View Post
. And what does Washington's past 10 yeas have to do with his future success. Since they only won one playoff game it automatically means he will bust?.
Makes perfect sense, I hear it all the time in basically all sports. Players who go to disfunctional organizations, have a greater chance of failing just because upper-management is so terrible it trickles down to players, etc. Poor personel decisions, hiring bad coaches, etc. Washington has been awful recently, terrible signings, Head Ball Coach, Donovan McNabb disaster, etc. If that continues if will hurt RGIII. I hear all the time, "oh man I hope the Brown's dont draft him, his career will be over before it starts" Why wouldnt it apply to Washington? Even in this very thread people are using Luck wont suceed because of the Colts poorly run organization (which I disagree with). Why wouldn't it apply to Washington?

I am interested to see Griffin have to throw into tight windows consistently, then Kendal Wright 10 yards open down the field, I think he will struggle a lot more than people think.
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Old 04-23-2012, 08:34 AM    (permalink
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Even in this very thread people are using Luck wont suceed because of the Colts poorly run organization
I'm not saying it's a poorly run organization. More or less, I like the environment that ownership has set forth for the players. My main concern is that they've gotten really old, and haven't drafted particularly well in the last 3 years. Here's the evidence:

2011 1 1 22 22 Anthony Castonzo T Boston College
2 2 17 49 Benjamin Ijalana T Villanova
3 3 23 87 Drake Nevis DT Louisiana State
4 4 22 119 Delone Carter RB Syracuse
5 6 23 188 Chris Rucker DB Michigan State

2010 1 1 31 31 Jerry Hughes LB Texas Christian
2 2 31 63 Patrick Angerer LB Iowa
3 3 30 94 Kevin Thomas DB USC
4 4 31 129 Jacques McClendon G Tennessee
5 5 31 162 Brody Eldridge TE Oklahoma
6 7 31 238 Ricardo Mathews DT Cincinnati
7 7 33 240 Kavell Conner LB Clemson
8 7 39 246 Ray Fisher DB Indiana

2009 1 1 27 27 Donald Brown RB Connecticut
2 2 24 56 Fili Moala DT USC
3 3 28 92 Jerraud Powers DB Auburn
4 4 27 127 Austin Collie WR Brigham Young
5 4 36 136 Terrance Taylor DT Michigan
6 6 28 201 Curtis Painter QB Purdue
7 7 13 222 Pat McAfee P West Virginia
8 7 27 236 Jaimie Thomas T Maryland

Not a lot of difference makers. I think the Colts are a team that's been riding mostly on reputation the last few years, and when Manning's arm gave out (or neck, or whatever), the floor fell through on them. My point is only that they aren't 1 player away from being a success. They have a serious rebuilding process to go through.
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Old 04-23-2012, 08:36 AM    (permalink
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Blackmon is going to be a bust. Book it.
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Old 04-23-2012, 08:57 AM    (permalink
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Blackmon is going to be a bust. Book it.
Micheal Crabtree Jr
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Old 04-23-2012, 10:23 AM    (permalink
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Makes perfect sense, I hear it all the time in basically all sports. Players who go to disfunctional organizations, have a greater chance of failing just because upper-management is so terrible it trickles down to players, etc. Poor personel decisions, hiring bad coaches, etc. Washington has been awful recently, terrible signings, Head Ball Coach, Donovan McNabb disaster, etc. If that continues if will hurt RGIII. I hear all the time, "oh man I hope the Brown's dont draft him, his career will be over before it starts" Why wouldnt it apply to Washington? Even in this very thread people are using Luck wont suceed because of the Colts poorly run organization (which I disagree with). Why wouldn't it apply to Washington?

I am interested to see Griffin have to throw into tight windows consistently, then Kendal Wright 10 yards open down the field, I think he will struggle a lot more than people think.
Because Washington isn't dysfunctional. They are the exact opposite. A proven head coach. A no BS head coach. The players love him and want to play for him. A very strong longer room. A GM who doesn't piss away money by over paying head case players. An owner with deep pockets and who had finally agreed to take a back seat and just sign checks. The problem is they aren't talented and deep enough at critical positions. That comes with time. Shanahan had a monster offseason and draft last year.

People want to throw the McNabb trade on Shanny without knowing the whole story. He took the blame fully knowing #5 was the problem. He sat down with him and told him his flaws and how they were going to avoid and change them but it would require dedication and hard work. McNabb didn't put that work in. Plain and simple. No coach makes every correct personel move. Props to Shanny for ridding himself of #5 instead of forcing him to make it work. There isn't a better QB head coach combo then Shanny and RG3. Griffin is beyond determined. He has impeccable work ethic and leadership. Nothing is a given as far as RG3s success but Luck has just a great of a chance of busting as Griffin if not more. The Colts have a nut job owner and absolutely no talent on that team to help Luck.
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Old 04-23-2012, 01:27 PM    (permalink
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Shanahan had a monster offseason and draft last year.
They did have a quietly good NFL Draft last year. Helu was a brilliant pick, and I think my favorite pick of that bunch was a guy that didn't even see the field last year, Aldrick Robinson of SMU.
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Old 04-23-2012, 01:40 PM    (permalink
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Blackmon is going to be a bust. Book it.
Care to elaborate?
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Old 04-23-2012, 01:45 PM    (permalink
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Care to elaborate?
Of course not, he's a troll.
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Old 04-26-2012, 01:13 AM    (permalink
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Coples
Gilmore
Hightower
Nick Perry
Jonathan Martin
Weeden
Worthy
Randle
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I honestly believe Reggie Bush has turned into exactly the type of player I envisioned.
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I would like it if there were more successful black Quarterbacks in the NFL...
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Tahj Boyd has the best fundamentals of any QB in this class, I think his game translates great to the NFL.
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Old 04-26-2012, 11:13 AM    (permalink
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Care to elaborate?
Blackmon is a lot better than crabtree. You can just look at crabtree and know he doesn't love football. Doesn't love the game and slow. Crabtree was always going to bust.
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Old 04-29-2012, 07:09 PM    (permalink
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Robert Griffin - McShay had a telling stat the week leading up to the draft that defines something I was trying to say in Dec. about Griffin’s pocket presence and lack of elusiveness. Of his top 7 QB’s in the draft, Griffin had the highest sack % of them all when under pressure.

His most NFL caliber throw, the bucket, is really only effective if he has an elite level WR to consistently get under it or high point it. Also have a hard time seeing the Shanahans incorporating any part of Baylor's spread into their scheme. Bust is probably too strong. I'd just say after 3-4 seasons the Redskins are contemplating what they should do at QB.
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Old 04-29-2012, 07:12 PM    (permalink
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Coples, Tannyhill, and the wr from Notre Dame.
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Old 04-29-2012, 07:38 PM    (permalink
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I'll pick 15 busts from the 30 players my team didn't select.

RGIII
Blackmon
Tannehill
Poe
Brockers
Irvin
Floyd
Coples
McClellin
Wright
Jones
Weeden
Mercilus
Jenkins
Wilson
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Old 04-29-2012, 07:50 PM    (permalink
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If you watch what both Luck and Griffin can do on the football field you can see that in no catergory Luck is better than Griffin.

Griffin has a better arm,faster,more accurate and isnt a coward when it comes to throwing deep.

Luck is captain check down and will be a future chad pennington.
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Old 04-29-2012, 08:05 PM    (permalink
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I dunno even half of those guys why did we sign them jeez.
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Old 04-29-2012, 08:11 PM    (permalink
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I hate to say it, but Shea McClellin. I think the guy could have been really successful if drafted to a 3-4 team. The Bears said he's just going to be a 4-3 left end. I can see him having serious trouble setting the edge against the run.

I think he'll end up being used as just a pass rush specialist a la Mark Anderson, and you can't be using first round picks on those.

The Packers and Bears should really trade first rounders.
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Old 04-29-2012, 09:58 PM    (permalink
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I wouldn't bet on Kendall Wright being a star, and that's what people will expect from a first round WR. He's smaller than most successful NFL WRs, doesn't appear to me to have elite NFL speed, benefited from a great QB in college, doesn't profile as much of a blocker, and it remains to be seen if the Titans will get long term quality QB play from Locker.
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Old 04-29-2012, 10:03 PM    (permalink
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Coples, Jones, and Mclellin will all be busts. I didn't like them much before the draft, and none of them fit in the position they'll be asked to play. I'd put big money on at least two of them busting, if not all three.
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Old 04-30-2012, 04:29 AM    (permalink
Asteinebach
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Originally Posted by Dallas357 View Post
Crabtree was always going to bust.
That's so easy to say now. Crabtree drew comparisons to Calvin Johnson when he was a prospect. People saw him as one of the "locks" of the 2008 draft. The fact that Oakland took DHB over him was the biggest "wtf" moment of the draft.

I hate it when people do this. Show up on the forum boards talking about guys from 3 years ago who they supposedly "knew" were going to bust. Easy to say that now, wasn't so much so then (hence the reason for this thread).
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Old 04-30-2012, 04:50 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Asteinebach View Post
That's so easy to say now. Crabtree drew comparisons to Calvin Johnson when he was a prospect. People saw him as one of the "locks" of the 2008 draft. The fact that Oakland took DHB over him was the biggest "wtf" moment of the draft.

I hate it when people do this. Show up on the forum boards talking about guys from 3 years ago who they supposedly "knew" were going to bust. Easy to say that now, wasn't so much so then (hence the reason for this thread).
I've never heard Crabtree/Johnson comparisons. I do agree that he was a "lock", but there was a lot of speculation that he would fall out of the top 10. Regardless, I agree with you. I don't understand why it's considered negative to compare Blackmon with Crabtree either. They are very similar as prospects in my opinion and I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing. They have the same risks, but they also have similar upside.
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Old 04-30-2012, 09:45 AM    (permalink
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Two players I can't wait to see on the field next year, Mark "Average Safety" Barron and Quinton "Lazied His Way to 8 Sacks" Coples. Think those guys are going to be absolute studs...

Busts:

Tannehill - Not a ton of QB experience, Dolphins completely ignored WR, and generally speaking the Dolphins just suck.

Melvin Ingram - At best the 2nd best player in the SC front 7, and by NFL standards is just small. He can move but he's got zero size or length....

Shea McClellin - Like Ingram an extremely popular player during the draft process. Had him as a 2nd rounder who could go in the 3rd in certain drafts.
Possibly the wrong system as well...Will be an interesting second contract player for a 3-4 team though.

Harrison Smith - THIS is your average safety folks.

Also think Randle got a career saving gift by going to Manning in NY, but otherwise I was not his biggest fan.
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Old 04-30-2012, 10:38 AM    (permalink
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Quinton Coples has that Scarlet Letter A for Attitude stamped on him, low motor, took lots of downs off, could bust unless he reverses his slacker personality.

The physical tools are there, & he appears to be coachable, so it's all in hi head -- he is only a possible bust.
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Old 04-30-2012, 11:11 AM    (permalink
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I like how people are calling Z.Brown like he was a first round selection, he went #52 overall. Even if he does bust, it won't be near the capacity of old ones.

Anybody else feel like we're gonna get less bust now with the new CBA? I think teams are more willing to "reach" on guys they really like rather than take someone else.

I think we'll start getting more appropriate system fit selections than highest rated player, because sadly enough it seems alot of teams take guys high even though they don't fit the system
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