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Old 04-28-2012, 03:20 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Razor View Post
My problem with this isn't directed at Matt directly. I have all the respect in the world for Matt and his knowledge when it comes to evaluating prospect. But that doesn't mean that he's always right. Matt clearly does not like Bequette for some reason which is fine. Or at least, that is my perception. Every year there are fans that freak out saying BB has lost his skills as a talent evaluator and the end is near. Well guess what. We just went to the 5th Super Bowl in 10 years. We have one of the most talented young QBs in the league waiting for the day when Brady retires to take over. Yes, the defense sucked last year and has been declining rapidly the last couple of seasons. But BB is working to fix it. I have no beef with people ripping him for the Wilson pick since it was awful But saying that Bequette is terrible value doesn't make sense. He was slated to go in the third round and all evaluators have talked about him in a positive manner. I haven't watched as much of him as Matt I am sure but from what I've seen he looks like a player that can develop into a starter in the NFL or at least be a very good backup. And it doesn't matter that he's not a natural 3-4 OLB since we play 60-70 % of the defensive snaps in some kind of a sub package anyway.
Throwing specifics out on Bequette out the door because that's all subjective; it's absolutely fair to question this teams ability to evaluate talent in the draft at this point. It seems to me that some of you aren't able to separate Belichick the talent evaluator from Belichick the coach. I don't think anyone is really questioning the credentials and ability of the latter.

But with the amount of draft picks wasted on poor players and the guys we've passed on over the years, it's hard not to doubt the former. We've won in SPITE of Belichick's ability to draft(especially in the second and third round), not because of it. It's been done to death at this point. List have been made previously, numerous discussions have been had....it's a track record that's absolutely impossible to defend.

Are we improving our approach? It appears we are. We took two pass rushers this year. That's excellent. The jury is out as to how they'll preform, but "working on it"(which happened to be mixed in with another absolutely confounding pick of in a draft when we had fewer picks than usual and needed to hit big on the ones we had) doesn't make up for the failings of years past, however. Not totally anyway. It's not about next year or the future. It's about the opportunities we've missed. Years of mismanagement of the pass defense culminated in a Super Bowl loss this year. I'm not alright with that. I feel like I'm a Colts fan at this point, but when you have an elite, all time great type quarterback, any year you don't win the Super Bowl is a failure. The standards are completely different in with that qualifier. There's going to be a day when we don't have Tom Brady and have to scratch and claw for it like most other teams in the league. This type of run isn't going to last forever.
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Old 04-28-2012, 03:20 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by TNPatsFan View Post
A late sixth and two late sevenths in return. Kind of like 2007, BB obviously doesn't like much in this draft and he's just trading down to the bottom of the draft to get some priority UDFA's (to go along with the UDFA that they already took in round 2)
It isn't a great draft class.
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Old 04-28-2012, 03:22 PM    (permalink
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Oh I agree completely. This year and last year were both pretty weak. There were a couple positions in this draft that were strong though, so I'm a little disappointed BB didn't try to get a WR or DT out of it.
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Old 04-28-2012, 03:23 PM    (permalink
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Guys why do we spend all this time following the NFL draft, posting thousands of comments on a message board about it, if we're not supposed to have strong opinions about it? Why not just read the blurbs from the beat writers the day after for our info? MJ has a low opinion of Bequette, EE and I aren't crazy about Hightower, this is because we spend so much time prepping for it. I wouldn't expect you to be happy Razor if we traded up for Melvin Ingram, but I would argue with you about his skills not just say, "You guys are being over dramatic, trust BB'zzz he knows more about football than us." Why should we even bother being here if we need to support every pick unconditionally?
That's not the point. It's how you present your opinions. There's no reason to overreact every time BB does something you don't like. I would've gone ape **** had we drafted Ingram, but I wouldn't have gone on these doomsday rant I've been reading today. It's just too much...
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Old 04-28-2012, 03:26 PM    (permalink
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That's not the point. It's how you present your opinions. There's no reason to overreact every time BB does something you don't like. I would've gone ape **** had we drafted Ingram, but I wouldn't have gone on these doomsday rant I've been reading today. It's just too much...
You're the one posting emotionally. Some of us are trying the share our thoughts on draft picks, something I've invested significant chunks of my free time cultivating and discussing with others. I'm sorry you don't enjoy reading some of them, but there's nothing I can do about that(or want to, really).

Your definition of a doomsday rant is fairly loose(at best), too.
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Old 04-28-2012, 03:27 PM    (permalink
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So we traded #62 (284 points) for #90 (Jake Bequette), #197, and #224 (144.6 points.) Awesome.
The Patriots should be barred from trading with the Packers. They seem to fleece us every time.
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Old 04-28-2012, 03:32 PM    (permalink
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Well there's nobody left in this draft that I'm interested in.. or that could possibly be expected to help the Pats much.. and since the Pats are a long way from picking again I think I'll be turning this off.

I think got they two excellent first rounders and a solid third rounder. It's just so disappointing that that's all they got out of this draft. Three players.
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Old 04-28-2012, 03:58 PM    (permalink
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At this point, I just hope we hit one someone who can bring some return value.
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Old 04-28-2012, 04:03 PM    (permalink
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Matt has a lot of knowledge, but the things he's saying is so divorced from reality. Sometimes I develop an opinion of a player and no matter how much I watch from that player I never change my opinion. I think this is case of Matt not liking the player. Bequette was very productive in the best division in NCAA football. He has a very good motor and solid intangibles. He's not an elite athlete but he faired very well in the agility drills at the Combine which is much more important than the forty. He does look a bit stiff and I consider him more of a 4-3 DE than a 3-4 OLB although his Combine numbers indicate that he could stand up in the 3-4.

My problem with this isn't directed at Matt directly. I have all the respect in the world for Matt and his knowledge when it comes to evaluating prospect. But that doesn't mean that he's always right. Matt clearly does not like Bequette for some reason which is fine. Or at least, that is my perception. Every year there are fans that freak out saying BB has lost his skills as a talent evaluator and the end is near. Well guess what. We just went to the 5th Super Bowl in 10 years. We have one of the most talented young QBs in the league waiting for the day when Brady retires to take over. Yes, the defense sucked last year and has been declining rapidly the last couple of seasons. But BB is working to fix it. I have no beef with people ripping him for the Wilson pick since it was awful But saying that Bequette is terrible value doesn't make sense. He was slated to go in the third round and all evaluators have talked about him in a positive manner. I haven't watched as much of him as Matt I am sure but from what I've seen he looks like a player that can develop into a starter in the NFL or at least be a very good backup. And it doesn't matter that he's not a natural 3-4 OLB since we play 60-70 % of the defensive snaps in some kind of a sub package anyway.
I've already outlined the reasons I don't like Bequette. Doesn't have a variety of rush moves, doesn't maintain gap responsibility, not a good open field tackler, does not locate the ball well, frequently on the ground or off-balance, and a stiff, straight-line player. So far all you've done is point to measurables and production, which doesn't represent any analysis whatsoever. Tully Banta-Cain was 260 pounds and had 10 sacks one year, does that mean he was a great pass rusher? Look at Bequette on tape and he is frequently out of position or blowing assignments. I already posted a video, why don't you try analyzing that or another of his games rather than talking about how tall he is or how many sacks he had?
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Old 04-28-2012, 04:50 PM    (permalink
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I'm not complaining about Chandler Jones(so stop that before it even happens) since it's really exciting that we're trying to address the pass rush....but for a guy that's supposed to draw comparisons for Pierre-Paul and Aldon Smith, I don't see the speed to turn the corner the way those two can. A little discouraging. I have to do a lot more homework before I can get a fully formulated opinion on him, but count me in the camp that's not seeing it. For now, anyway. Obviously there's some people who think he can play though, so I don't know. Like the length and flexibility, not sure where it leads to.
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Old 04-28-2012, 04:56 PM    (permalink
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Awesome. Nate Ebner.
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Old 04-28-2012, 05:01 PM    (permalink
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Wish I could comment beyond 'oh good a safety.'
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Old 04-28-2012, 05:02 PM    (permalink
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Gunners man. We may not return the kicks worth a damn, but we make damn sure to tackle.

I've seen him play!....rugby, anyway. NBC televised some it a few years ago. If he's the guy I think he was from looking at google images(the beard was pretty distinctive), he was pretty damn good at that.

Ebner is interesting, but likely wouldn't have been drafted from what I read(which is all you can do because he never played). Seems like a decent enough athlete, but I don't think you can really expect more than another special teams guy by the sounds of it.
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Old 04-28-2012, 05:05 PM    (permalink
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Any idea what we should address with the two 7th rounders?
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Old 04-28-2012, 05:06 PM    (permalink
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Nate Ebner former rugby player, because playing WR's at DB is getting too mainstream.
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Old 04-28-2012, 05:10 PM    (permalink
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Here's some rugby highlights.



I'm pretty sure the game I saw was the Notre Dame game. Kind of funny that someone from something I put on randomly out of boredom and curiosity is a Patriot now.

But yeah, I mostly have nothing. Sounds like a special teamer. Decent workout numbers and interesting background though.
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Old 04-28-2012, 05:10 PM    (permalink
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Great STer and had a great pro day. He'll never start.
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Old 04-28-2012, 05:17 PM    (permalink
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Great STer and had a great pro day. He'll never start.
Umm...we have played Troy Brown and Julian Edleman in our secondary...I would never say never!
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Old 04-28-2012, 05:55 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by devinhester=R.O.Y 2006 View Post
Umm...we have played Troy Brown and Julian Edleman in our secondary...I would never say never!
haha... okay, you got me. He'll never start in an ideal world. Is that better? lol
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Old 04-28-2012, 06:04 PM    (permalink
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Dennard is a fantastic buy low. Possibly projects to safety and there's some issues, but **** it let's do it.
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Old 04-28-2012, 06:10 PM    (permalink
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He's a starting FS for us eventually. I like it.
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Old 04-28-2012, 06:14 PM    (permalink
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Funny part is; if we switch where he and Wilson were drafted, it all looks slightly better. The downside to Dennard for me is that he really didn't look all that hot in Mobile when he had a real chance to help himself. He's also obviously a bonehead. He assaulted a cop a week ago. So that's not cool. Potential steal of the draft if he works out. Rooting for him to play safety. At Nebsraska, he got away with murder in terms of pressing receivers. It worked quite well...but I could see him being flagged frequently for playing similarly in the NFL.
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Old 04-28-2012, 06:44 PM    (permalink
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We finally drafted a receiver. Jeremy Ebert. I saw Northwestern twice on the year(Boston College opener and against Penn State). Wasn't really specifically looking for him either time, but he did have a big day against Penn State and was a pretty decent player for Northwestern the past few years from a statistical perspective.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2...pat-fitzgerald

He had a really good pro day, ran a a 4.38 in the 40. Pat Fitzgerald described him as a slot receiver type. That's all I really have/can find on him.
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Old 04-28-2012, 06:46 PM    (permalink
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Gunners man. We may not return the kicks worth a damn, but we make damn sure to tackle.
Unless it's at safety.
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Old 04-28-2012, 06:48 PM    (permalink
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Dennard is a fantastic buy low. Possibly projects to safety and there's some issues, but **** it let's do it.
Need a punt return gunner? Take him in the 2nd.

Need a safety? Get him in the 7th.
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