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Old 04-26-2012, 10:34 PM    (permalink
Nalej
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Originally Posted by FlyingElvis View Post
We'd be lucky to get a ham sandwich and a bag of chips for either of them.
Pretty much this. What about.... WES WELKER?! (Wait, he hasn't signed... so we can't trade him?)
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Old 04-26-2012, 10:41 PM    (permalink
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Spikes is a great blitzer. Not sure what you mean. He may not get sacks but he disrupts everything in the backfield.
I wouldn't agree with that. I haven't seen him do much that I would call disruptive against the passing game on a regular basis.

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I'm really hoping we go Iloka in the 2nd and trade the additional 2nd for a few more mid rounders.
God, I hope not. We would be leading the league in guys who lack fluidity.
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Old 04-26-2012, 10:51 PM    (permalink
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who are the guys we target tomorrow? trumaine johnson, janoris jenkins, brandon taylor come to mind..... we will trade down at some point... but you got to think secondary help will be the emphasis tomorrow
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Old 04-26-2012, 10:58 PM    (permalink
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todd mcshay on hightower's pass rush ability:

"And he can get after the quarterback. That's one thing we saw this past year. He doesn't have explosive burst off the edge, but has some quickness to power, he used his hands better than expected and I think he showed this past year when he's healthy with the knee injury behind him, and the fact that he was confident in that knee, that he can get off the blocks, that he can go outside the tackle box when playing the run from left to right."

i know not many are fans of mcshay but he watches alot more than any of us ever would haha
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Old 04-26-2012, 11:33 PM    (permalink
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I would be very happy if we got Jenikins in the second, I feel like that would be great value.
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Old 04-26-2012, 11:44 PM    (permalink
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I doubt Jenkins is even on the Pats board.

There are other DB's that can help. Boykin is also a great return man that could help fill that need as well as being an extra slot corner.

I'd like to see them get a big DL like Still, Worthy, or Thompson. And I'd really love to come away with one of the many good WR's that are still left.
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Old 04-27-2012, 12:29 AM    (permalink
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I went back and watched some games on Chandler Jones. I've been away from this stuff for quite a bit, so keep that in mind...but my impressions are pretty much in line with the preliminary stuff I looked at when he was thought to be a third round type value/guy to look for in the future. Plays with inconsistent pad level, doesn't have a wide variety of pass rush moves to make use of those long arms, doesn't seem to run the arc well and can be caught off balance when he tries(ties into leverage and pad level). The thing I don't like the most is the lack of finishing burst though. As it stands right now, many of the things that he doesn't do well are very coachable and even project to be pluses in the future because of his body type. That one I'm not so sure about. It's all about finishing in a hurry and I'm not sure Jones is that type of guy.

At the end of the day, we've been asking for a front seven player with upside for years now and Jones finally fills that role...but I'm not all that impressed with him relative to guys we've passed on in years past. Curious to see what we do with him position-wise too. He's obviously best suited as a pure 4-3 DE, but where do we play him in 3-4 looks? Doesn't seem like a natural fit at either spot. Not sure how he would be as a two gapper even if he did manage to get up to 280, even situationally. Not fluid enough to play in space on a regular effective basis either, but I think he's a little bit better in that area than he's perhaps given credit for(from the 3 games I've seen so far) in the majority of scouting reports/impressions of him.

So yeah, I can see bits and pieces of the way he rose up boards(but most of them seem to be reasons that don't apply to what we like to do, curiously enough)...but I'm not entirely sure that it was as organic a thing as you would like. Might be a bit of an unpopular opinion, but I think I would have preferred to nab someone who is a little more active like Mercilus or McClellin(slightly less unpopular).

Admittedly, Jones may be one of those players I just don't really get. One of the things I've gotten on the team about over the course of the past few years is the unwillingness to take on players with tools and develop them(except wide receivers, which they might be better of stopping actually haha). But for me, it's really hard to see where the road leads to at the end for Jones.
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Old 04-27-2012, 12:56 AM    (permalink
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I don't really see how this makes us that much better. Hightower isn't a bad player, but he does a lot of the same things Spikes does(upgrading some of them). Not a big fan of the move.
He's coming in to play the Ninkovich role.
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Old 04-27-2012, 01:09 AM    (permalink
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He's coming in to play the Ninkovich role.
More confident in Hightower being the better overall player and he still has some upside...but there are things Ninkovich does better than Hightower that he will likely continue to do better at(things that are arguably more valuable to the group as it's presently constituted too). It's not a complete and total upgrade. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't view Hightower as an elite linebacker so much as an above average one.

Again, I don't feel like we got significantly better with this move and would have rather addressed more pressing areas. Just doesn't seem to compliment what we already have that well. In a vacuum, the pick is slightly better, but I can't really justify moving up to take him with all that said.
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Old 04-27-2012, 02:10 AM    (permalink
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I'm excited about Chandler Jones and Dont'a Hightower. The first round couldn't have gone any better (except that New England only has two more picks in the entire draft at this point.) Defense of the future:

LE: Fanene

UT: Love

NT: Wilfork

RE: Jones

WLB: Mayo

MLB: Spikes

SLB: Hightower

LCB: McCourty

FS: Gregory

SS: Chung

RCB: Dowling

I'd like to see New England trade down a little bit to accumulate some mid and late-round picks and focus on the defensive line and defensive backs.
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Old 04-27-2012, 03:35 AM    (permalink
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Is it just me or does Hightower seem too talkative for BB's liking? I'm sure BB will straighten him out lol

I really love our first round and I can't wait to see what happens in the second. It could really go in all directions but I hope we take a look on one of the following players:

Randle
Boykin
Taylor
Curry
Silatolu
Konz
Hosley
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Old 04-27-2012, 06:49 AM    (permalink
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My thoughts on the first round.

I have to like the C. Jones pickup just for the sheer fact that it goes against everything we've done and failed at in the past. We traded up for a raw toolsy prospect on defense, who might actually be able to rush the passer in a few years. I guess the million dollar question for right now is what he can do to contribute right away? I think he'll be a rotation player with Fanene for most of the year. He's pretty good at setting the edge, but the pass rush game isn't there yet. Still in 2-3 years he he could easily be the 2nd best player on defense.

I sensed the Hightower pick was going to happen about a month ago. This pick is classic BB. A huge guy who basically fits our defensive system of putting a hat on a hat. It's a numbers game, and Hightower really gives you an edge on the first 2 downs. Goaline formations should be downright stout with Deaderick, Wilfork, Love, Mayo, Hightower, and Spikes. However, I don't see him doing all that much to improve the real problem with our defense which is Pass defense. I like Spikes's instincts in coverage more, and Hightower just seems incredibly lumbering to me. I would much rather have stayed put and picked Jenkins or even Hill, but such is life. I'm pretty sure Hightower will be a productive guy in our scheme regardless though.

Can't wait for day 2. If they could somehow come away with Jared Crick and Janoris Jenkins I'd be a very happy man.
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Old 04-27-2012, 07:27 AM    (permalink
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Also, I still think a smaller quicker ILB type like David, Kendricks, or Wagner could be in play today. It would be very typical BB to double up if he thinks the value is right.
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Old 04-27-2012, 07:30 AM    (permalink
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I'm excited about Chandler Jones and Dont'a Hightower. The first round couldn't have gone any better (except that New England only has two more picks in the entire draft at this point.) Defense of the future:

LE: Fanene

UT: Love

NT: Wilfork

RE: Jones

WLB: Mayo

MLB: Spikes

SLB: Hightower

LCB: McCourty

FS: Gregory

SS: Chung

RCB: Dowling

I'd like to see New England trade down a little bit to accumulate some mid and late-round picks and focus on the defensive line and defensive backs.
That unit still needs an X Factor in the worst way, but I feel like we're getting more and more legitimate NFL starters each day. Dowling, Hightower, Gregory, and Jones should help right away next year.
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Old 04-27-2012, 07:52 AM    (permalink
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You guys... C'mon. People here have been saying "looks like they're switching to a 4-3" for 3 years now.

The two picks they made don't mean anything regarding a 4-3. Look a lot more like 3-4 players, especially in Belichick's defense. The only question is whether they're looking at Jones as more of an OLB or a 5-Tech. As a 5-tech he could be the McGinnest/Hali-type whereas Hightower will move all around on that defense. For most teams, he would have been a straight up ILB, but for the Pats, he's a primary OLB and a Nickel DE.

LOOK! Belichick just did two things he doesn't do. Traded up (TWICE!) and took an OLB (TWICE!). We should be partying in the streets right now.
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Old 04-27-2012, 08:27 AM    (permalink
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I agree with nepg. These guys both look like 34 players.
Jones as an OLB and Hightower as a guy that can play every LB position and possibly nickel DE.
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Old 04-27-2012, 08:27 AM    (permalink
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You guys... C'mon. People here have been saying "looks like they're switching to a 4-3" for 3 years now.

The two picks they made don't mean anything regarding a 4-3. Look a lot more like 3-4 players, especially in Belichick's defense. The only question is whether they're looking at Jones as more of an OLB or a 5-Tech. As a 5-tech he could be the McGinnest/Hali-type whereas Hightower will move all around on that defense. For most teams, he would have been a straight up ILB, but for the Pats, he's a primary OLB and a Nickel DE.

LOOK! Belichick just did two things he doesn't do. Traded up (TWICE!) and took an OLB (TWICE!). We should be partying in the streets right now.
No kidding We didn't take some fail defensive back so it's all good. Going to be a little weird not having two 1's and two 2's next year but I'll live. I think Hightower is being undervalued. Smart, instinctive football players don't need to run 4.5 to stay on the field. Every time I watched a Steeler game with their intimidating looking linebackers I always thought why can't we have one of those? And now we do. While his primary role won't be a pass rusher I'm thinking he's going to give us some very good situational inside pressure. He's got great closing speed. I think he'll have versatility to play inside or out.

For Jones I think he'll take more time to develop but initially he'll be an edge rusher. He's not the most fluid guy so I can't see him playing in space often but eventually he looks to be that 'elephant' role.

For the second round I'd like to pick up a 3rd to get a returner type and/or a developmental safety, maybe Martin. But I also tend to agree with Cmarq and I wouldn't be surprised to see a cover LB. Then again another DB and some DL depth too. Not enough picks left lol.

Edit: Just wanted to add that Pitt got the steal of the draft. DeCastro at 24. That's a major wow. I'm super shocked Chicago or even Cleveland didn't take him.

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Old 04-27-2012, 09:22 AM    (permalink
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I'm even happier with the results after a full night to chew on the info. Honestly, it's very difficult to be unhappy with a round one where we not only use our picks, we move UP to use them. Even more astounding is we use them on the two areas we've identified as huge needs for several years running. OLB + Elephant. I have no doubts that Jones will be that role, at this point.

Neither guy is a clear cut blue chip that is a lock to be a stud at their respective spot, but we picked in the 20s. Nobody fits that bill in the 20s.
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Old 04-27-2012, 09:28 AM    (permalink
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I love our picks! Jones and Hightower will give our D some versatility and flexibility! Not sure where Hightower will play with Mayo and Spikes inside though

We will probably trade one of our 2nd for a first next year or something like that!
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Old 04-27-2012, 09:56 AM    (permalink
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Here are some guys who could make sense for the Patriots in the second round:

WR T.Y. Hilton, Florida International
WR Mohamed Sanu, Rutgers*
DT Kendall Reyes, Connecticut
DE Courtney Upshaw, Alabama
CB Brandon Boykin, Georgia
CB Janoris Jenkins, North Alabama
CB Josh Robinson, Central Florida*
SS Brandon Taylor, Louisiana St.

Josh Robinson is my most likely Patriots pick; I believe one of our area scouts or assistant coaches recruited him to Central Florida and Robinson posted one of the top cone drills of any defensive back at the Combine.
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Old 04-27-2012, 10:08 AM    (permalink
Matthew Jones
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I can't wait for New England's picks to be announced by Troy M.F. Brown today!
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Old 04-27-2012, 10:09 AM    (permalink
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I would hate it if we somehow ended up with Upshaw today. Size is a great thing to have, but at a point you can have too much size and not enough athleticism. I don't see how you could ever play Spikes, Upshaw, and Hightower at the same time. We need to do something to improve our pass defense THIS YEAR, that's why I want either a CB, pass rushing DT (Wolfe or Crick would do at the end of the 2nd), Safety like Trumaine Johnson or Brandon Taylor, or a coverage LB for nickel sets.

If we come away with an interior lineman like Konz or Silatolu I'd be ok with that as well. Ditto for a WR with deep speed/return ability or Broyles.
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Old 04-27-2012, 10:10 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Jones View Post
I can't wait for New England's picks to be announced by Troy M.F. Brown today!
Love that guy, I went on youtube and watched his and David Givens's highlight reels last night before the draft. 2 of my favorite SB era Patriots.
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Old 04-27-2012, 10:34 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Jones View Post
Here are some guys who could make sense for the Patriots in the second round:

WR T.Y. Hilton, Florida International
WR Mohamed Sanu, Rutgers*
DT Kendall Reyes, Connecticut

DE Courtney Upshaw, Alabama
CB Brandon Boykin, Georgia
CB Janoris Jenkins, North Alabama
CB Josh Robinson, Central Florida*
SS Brandon Taylor, Louisiana St.


Josh Robinson is my most likely Patriots pick; I believe one of our area scouts or assistant coaches recruited him to Central Florida and Robinson posted one of the top cone drills of any defensive back at the Combine.
I hope it's a S and DE but I'll be happy with Sanu if he dropped to us. A big bodied WR would be nice.
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Old 04-27-2012, 10:48 AM    (permalink
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I want Jenkins, Robinson, Boykin, or Taylor. Since we addressed LB I would now be OK with us taking a DB. If Upshaw is available I would be completely OK with it.
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