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Old 01-03-2014, 11:34 AM    (permalink
Nastradamus
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I think we are going to end up with Ebron in the end, maybe after a trade down. WR in the 2nd. Either Matthews or Robinson most likely. A trade up for Lee would be fantastic.


How would people feel if we surprised and took someone like CJ Mosley. MLB isn't a need, short term, but do you pass if you think he's potentially your Luke Kuechly?
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Old 01-03-2014, 12:21 PM    (permalink
detroit4life
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I think we are going to end up with Ebron in the end, maybe after a trade down. WR in the 2nd. Either Matthews or Robinson most likely. A trade up for Lee would be fantastic.


How would people feel if we surprised and took someone like CJ Mosley. MLB isn't a need, short term, but do you pass if you think he's potentially your Luke Kuechly?
Starting to think a WR in the 2nd is a very fair possibility. Jarvis Landry, Robinson, Mathews, and Benjamin could all fill our need as a 2nd WR.

I think Ebron would be fantastic, but I think it depends on the HC and OC. We would need to change the offense but I'd love to see Fauria and Ebron working the middle of the field.

I wouldn't mind Mosley because he could play OLB with Tulloch and Levy. But if we go defense in round 1 I am hoping that Denard or Gilbert raise their stock and we grab one of them. I'd rather fix up our secondary before we make our front 7 stronger. This league is more and more a passing league and we have 2 pretty lethal passing attacks in our division already.

Either way I just don't want to see us reach for a position. Between LB, CB, Clinton-Dix and WR I hope we take the best player on the board or move down.

THe interesting scenario would be if Barr or Mack fell to us. Barr doesn't really fit a 4-3 but would most certainly be BPA there.
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Old 01-04-2014, 04:42 PM    (permalink
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Yah, the 2nd seems to be where the value is to me. I'd really love to have an elite defensive talent or Ebron/Amaro in the 1st.
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Old 01-06-2014, 09:53 AM    (permalink
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Yah, the 2nd seems to be where the value is to me. I'd really love to have an elite defensive talent or Ebron/Amaro in the 1st.
My feeling is that is Watkins is there we will take him as he is a pretty special talent and would be so dangerous across from Calvin. His ability to take a screen pass to the house and take the top off the defense basically forces 2 DBs to his side with a CB on the line and a safety deep. Having that weapon across from calvin where defenses typically always fade to would truly force teams to pick their poison vs us.


If Watkins is not there I hope we go defense and grab Ha Ha or the top CB available. We can find suitable talent at WR in the 2nd and 3rd with the depth in this draft.

I'd love Ebron because I think he will be a star in the league but our need is at WR and CB and I think we need to address those needs rather than add a dynamic TE. Hopefully Fauria can improve on his blocking this offseason because if he can become an everydown TE he will be that dynamic threat at TE that we'd be getting with Ebron.
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Old 01-06-2014, 03:09 PM    (permalink
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Watkins all the way. Trade up for him. Don't be afraid.
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Old 01-06-2014, 03:47 PM    (permalink
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Watkins all the way. Trade up for him. Don't be afraid.
Depending on what it costs I would. However I wouldn't give up our 2nd to go get him. We need more than just a WR in this draft and there is a good amount of WRs in this draft that can cause issues to opposing defenses across from Calvin.
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Old 01-06-2014, 05:10 PM    (permalink
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We'll get a top 5 talent or even a great trade down offer. I'd rather have 2 mid 2nds and a 3rd than 10th and I know we'll get way better offers than that if a qb needy team gets desperate.

Jordan Mathews, Purifoy, and a center or coverage olb or #10? Plus, we'll have our other picks.

I'm a downer unless it's for Jake Matthews or Clowney.
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Old 01-06-2014, 05:28 PM    (permalink
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We'll get a top 5 talent or even a great trade down offer. I'd rather have 2 mid 2nds and a 3rd than 10th and I know we'll get way better offers than that if a qb needy team gets desperate.

Jordan Mathews, Purifoy, and a center or coverage olb or #10? Plus, we'll have our other picks.

I'm a downer unless it's for Jake Matthews or Clowney.
I'd rather have Watkins than all of those combined.
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Old 01-07-2014, 04:26 PM    (permalink
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My feeling is that is Watkins is there we will take him as he is a pretty special talent and would be so dangerous across from Calvin. His ability to take a screen pass to the house and take the top off the defense basically forces 2 DBs to his side with a CB on the line and a safety deep. Having that weapon across from calvin where defenses typically always fade to would truly force teams to pick their poison vs us.


If Watkins is not there I hope we go defense and grab Ha Ha or the top CB available. We can find suitable talent at WR in the 2nd and 3rd with the depth in this draft.

I'd love Ebron because I think he will be a star in the league but our need is at WR and CB and I think we need to address those needs rather than add a dynamic TE. Hopefully Fauria can improve on his blocking this offseason because if he can become an everydown TE he will be that dynamic threat at TE that we'd be getting with Ebron.
I certainly don't hate the idea of Watkins opposite Calvin, let's get that out of the way. Here's my main question on the subject. How all in are you on taking Watkins or a WR? Does BPA enter the discussion for you at all? What if you think Khalil Mack is the next Demarcus Ware or Clay Matthews. Do you pass on him for the next Mike Wallace or Desean Jackson?

Second, I think more than a speed WR(which we do need), we need a player on this team who can catch 85+ balls for Stafford at a 70% rate or so. That's what all the other great QBs tend to have and what boosts their completion percentage and overall efficiency. Someone he can go to on 2nd and 6+ to get you into 3rd and short. TE is too important of a position in this league these days and Pettigrew hasn't been good enough. He hasn't rated as a top 40 TE in the last 3 years by Profootballfocus.
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Old 01-07-2014, 05:43 PM    (permalink
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I certainly don't hate the idea of Watkins opposite Calvin, let's get that out of the way. Here's my main question on the subject. How all in are you on taking Watkins or a WR? Does BPA enter the discussion for you at all? What if you think Khalil Mack is the next Demarcus Ware or Clay Matthews. Do you pass on him for the next Mike Wallace or Desean Jackson?

Second, I think more than a speed WR(which we do need), we need a player on this team who can catch 85+ balls for Stafford at a 70% rate or so. That's what all the other great QBs tend to have and what boosts their completion percentage and overall efficiency. Someone he can go to on 2nd and 6+ to get you into 3rd and short. TE is too important of a position in this league these days and Pettigrew hasn't been good enough. He hasn't rated as a top 40 TE in the last 3 years by Profootballfocus.
Well for starters, if Watkins is there at 10 I would be pretty shocked if he wasn't the BPA. Pure assumption on my part but he's certainly a top 10 talent. I find it interesting you use Mike Wallace and Desean Jackson as comps. While I think they're relatively fair, I also think he plays with way more aggression than them and it pigeon holes him as a deep threat only receiver, which I don't think is true. Personally I see some Percy Harvin in his game where he can take a screen 80 yards to the house, but has the speed to burn you deep as well. A single CB is never a guaranteed tackle on him because he can go around you, but he also has shown that he will go right through them as well.

I am not all in on Watkins at 10, but it would take some incredible stock rising for me to rather a CB there. If Mack is there it would be an interesting debate and I wouldn't be upset at Mack there, but it depends on the defense we are running then and how he'd fit.

My main issue is that I view us as having 2 glaring needs (WR and CB) and then a couple secondary needs (LB, Safety). While there is no question Mack makes our defense better, the front 7 did a pretty good job last year. It's the back 4 that seems to be porous. If we have a DC that plans on using Mack the way he should be (blitzing his fair share and letting Mack get to the QB) I'm all for it, but the team has been built to rush 4, not 5 and ultimately we are simply adding to our biggest strength.

Honestly I think I'd rather Mosley over Mack if we went LB because he's well rounded and would allow us to slide him over to MLB in a year or 2 when we are done with Tulloch.

I wouldn't complain one bit if we waited til later in the draft and got Jordan Mathews or one of the tier 2 WRs. There is about 7 or 8 WRs in this draft that should be able to make an impact across from Calvin. But they'd be role players, but with Calvin on your team it's fair to say we don't need much more than that. I agree that we need guys who can consistently catch the ball for Stafford and be that possession, over the middle guy with reliable hands. I see Mathews as that guy and would love to have him. But that doesn't mean we need Ebron either. Yes Pettigrew is not the pass catcher we'd love to have. But he is adequate and can block better than anyone gives him credit for (which is mostly how we used him). But i think we got a steal in Fauria and he can definitely be that pass catching threat we'd love to have from a TE. I just don't think we can go for a TE when we have the other needs that we have.
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Old 01-07-2014, 08:55 PM    (permalink
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Well for starters, if Watkins is there at 10 I would be pretty shocked if he wasn't the BPA. Pure assumption on my part but he's certainly a top 10 talent. I find it interesting you use Mike Wallace and Desean Jackson as comps. While I think they're relatively fair, I also think he plays with way more aggression than them and it pigeon holes him as a deep threat only receiver, which I don't think is true. Personally I see some Percy Harvin in his game where he can take a screen 80 yards to the house, but has the speed to burn you deep as well. A single CB is never a guaranteed tackle on him because he can go around you, but he also has shown that he will go right through them as well.

I am not all in on Watkins at 10, but it would take some incredible stock rising for me to rather a CB there. If Mack is there it would be an interesting debate and I wouldn't be upset at Mack there, but it depends on the defense we are running then and how he'd fit.

My main issue is that I view us as having 2 glaring needs (WR and CB) and then a couple secondary needs (LB, Safety). While there is no question Mack makes our defense better, the front 7 did a pretty good job last year. It's the back 4 that seems to be porous. If we have a DC that plans on using Mack the way he should be (blitzing his fair share and letting Mack get to the QB) I'm all for it, but the team has been built to rush 4, not 5 and ultimately we are simply adding to our biggest strength.

Honestly I think I'd rather Mosley over Mack if we went LB because he's well rounded and would allow us to slide him over to MLB in a year or 2 when we are done with Tulloch.

I wouldn't complain one bit if we waited til later in the draft and got Jordan Mathews or one of the tier 2 WRs. There is about 7 or 8 WRs in this draft that should be able to make an impact across from Calvin. But they'd be role players, but with Calvin on your team it's fair to say we don't need much more than that. I agree that we need guys who can consistently catch the ball for Stafford and be that possession, over the middle guy with reliable hands. I see Mathews as that guy and would love to have him. But that doesn't mean we need Ebron either. Yes Pettigrew is not the pass catcher we'd love to have. But he is adequate and can block better than anyone gives him credit for (which is mostly how we used him). But i think we got a steal in Fauria and he can definitely be that pass catching threat we'd love to have from a TE. I just don't think we can go for a TE when we have the other needs that we have.
Thanks for the long,thought out post first and foremost. I agree with you on certain points.

1. Wallace/Jackson might not be the most fair comparison, but I see him as a high impact, big play WR but not a true #1 in the mold of a Calvin or even a Julio Jones.

2. Just can't disagree enough on TE. Even if we bring Pettigrew back(no guarantee depending on the money), I'd like a strong complement to him. Stafford needs a security blanked for mid range passes more than he needs to throw downfield more often. We are trying to discourage INTs and big risks, to some degree.

3. I agree on Mosley over Mack. I really like him as a fit for our needs. Him and Levy would be a great pair going forward. Tulloch was fantastic this year, but

4. If we don't address WR early on, I definitely love the round 2 guys. Even if it involve a trade up. Matthews,Robinson,Benjamin,Beckham or Abbrederis would be nice.

5. I won't sit here and say I"m happy with our CB play, but I also don't consider it to be as big of a need as you. Personally, I'd rather go into the season with the current group. We have 4 young guys who have shown some sort of promise and Houston, who I think will bounce back. I wouldn't mind Mathis(or a similar vet) back as a mentor and a short term filler. Again, not saying we couldn't upgrade, but I just don't think its worth our #1 pick right now. We have bigger needs and the value isn't there. The only way I'd go CB is if I considered someone a true #1 CB, in the Petersen mold. I do like Dennard quite a bit, but he seems like he'll go in the 15-25 range more so.
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Old 01-07-2014, 11:18 PM    (permalink
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If Whisenhunt is our hire, a WR or OT(yes, I haven't given up on the idea of improving our OL), would likely be our pick. My second choice is CB, I think the post season will see at least 2 rise to top 10 consideration.
LB's don't tend to get picked in the top 10 but either Mosley or Mack would be at least decent.

When your drafting 10, it will likely come down to BPA that is still left and a lot of our suggestions will be long gone. I'm not crazy about another 1st round TE but you never know. It is pretty early in the draft process to know exactly how the top 10 will look, so we are all talking about the unknown at this point.
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Old 01-08-2014, 08:57 AM    (permalink
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I agree with both comments above. Yes CB is not a pressing need but this CB corps has issues unless Houston really turns it around and Slay progresses as we hope. Between the Packers and the Bears, if we cannot defend the pass we will always have issues winning our division.

I think for the most part everyoine agrees in the fact that we should go BPA and not reach for need. Yes the rankings are bound to change significantly between now and the draft, the hope is (as always) some teams fall in love with some QBs and OTs and we get luck and are sitting in a position to move down into the teens where we can can happily take a CB, LB or even Safety (darkhorse with Delmas' contract) and pick up an additional second, allowing us to either move back up into the first for a guy we love, or fill our needs in the second with a WR and someone else.

I feel as if the debate is more so offense vs defense at 10, rather than this position vs that position because as IAC said, rankings will change drastically.

And I am sorry IAC but I will be furious if we go Oline at 10. 3-7 I wouldn't beupset with, but an Olineman at 10 simply doesn't make this team better this year.
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Old 01-08-2014, 03:46 PM    (permalink
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Agreed. For me its no QB,OL,RB or DT no matter what.
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Old 01-08-2014, 04:12 PM    (permalink
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I wouldn't mind DT or Center if they are good players even with Raiola back on vet min. Long term center is needed. Just in case they lose Fairley. I know we have way bigger fish to fry though than DT but draft is about long term too. They have a big decision on Suh(extension) and Fairley (picking up his 2015 option).

Right Tackle I really like Waddle alot but he's far from a set guy. Hilliard is a solid backup with plenty of experience. If a good tackle is staring at them and BPA for sure it could happen. Reiff was solid but didn't light the world on fire in pass protection at LT. Taking a LT and moving Reiff to RT is not the worst thing in the world if the board dictates it.

WR2 with speed that can beat single coverage and still get it done if Calvin is out is big need. But also very tough to find.

Safety and CB depends on Delmas contract, Houston bouncing back and Slay/Bentley's continued development. Mathis had a better year than most realize. 47% completion against him, nothing too big given up against him (3 TDs only). I'd get Mathis back cheap again but hope Slay has the light bulb go off.
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Old 01-08-2014, 09:35 PM    (permalink
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DT is out for me completely. I'd rather go with someone unspectacular next to Suh than draft one at #10.There's no way its the best match of need and value.

I left C out because I don't think any project to even go in the first round, let alone top 10. I wouldn't mind one, nor would I mind signing Alex Mack in free agency.
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Old 01-08-2014, 11:37 PM    (permalink
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I hope we don't need a DT and I agree with Nastradamus, I'm not sure there will be an OC ranked anywhere near the top 10 but round 2 or 3, we should draft one.

The trouble in getting a hold on the draft is not knowing who our new HC or co-ordinators will be, they are bound to have some input.

As for WR, there is no Johnson or Jones in this year's draft and if there were, they wouldn't last till the #10 pick. I could live with the top receiver whoever that turns out to be but WR is so deep and talented in this draft year, waiting till round 2 might be a realistic option.

I don't know how the Lions feel about the potential of their CB's but I do believe that around the 10th pick, a very solid one just might be available.
I'm also not opposed to a LB if they feel he is worth the 10th pick.
I would point out that there are at least 3 or 4 great LT's available in this draft, so taking one, starting him at RT for a year and then switching him with Reiff in year 2, might give us a great OL vs an average OL.

Of course, if I know Mayhew, he'll just take the BPA at any position of need.
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Old 01-09-2014, 12:17 AM    (permalink
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Can someone explain to me how people are happy with our CBs? I've seen it numerous places now.
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Old 01-09-2014, 08:40 AM    (permalink
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Can someone explain to me how people are happy with our CBs? I've seen it numerous places now.
There are alot of what ifs to be happy with the CBs. Houston back to 2010-2012 form and Slay developing alot. Bentley in the nickel is fine and still developing. Mathis had a good year that most people don't realize, bring him back on the vet min again.

However, if they took one at 10 or spent money on Verner or Grimes in free agency, I wouldn't bat an eye. Takes away one what if of either Houston or Slay with a top 10 pick or big FA.
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Old 01-09-2014, 09:19 AM    (permalink
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Can someone explain to me how people are happy with our CBs? I've seen it numerous places now.
I'm not sure and I agree with you that a CB needs to be added. The hope is that Slay can prove to be a consistent starter. But even if he does, Houston sucked last year, plain and simple. Sure we can hope he turns it around but what if he doesn't? We get torched all year again and with 2 of the better passing attacks in the league in our division. The NFC West is bound to take atleast one Wild card spot, we need to win our division to make the playoffs if you ask me.

Mathis is 33 and had a better season than anyone would have hoped for, he will not resign at the vet min, remeber that we picked him up in training camp because noone else wanted him.

Bentley is nothing more than a Nickle back who has issues staying healthy, probably due to the fact he is so small. He provides great depth, but once again, if we are relying on him we are going to have issues.

I personally think there are way too many questions there to just be satisfied going into the season with this CB corps. Fortunately there is very good depth at CB as well and taking a CB in the second can still get us very good talent, possible even in the 3rd.

But ultimately, whether it be in the Draft or in FA (which I'd be fine going after a 1 year deal on a veteran CB) I think we absolutely need to bring in a CB that we would feel comfortable playing a good amount of snaps.
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Old 01-09-2014, 12:40 PM    (permalink
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Can someone explain to me how people are happy with our CBs? I've seen it numerous places now.
Its not that we are happy with the CBs, its that they are young, they have showed some potential and we only have so many resources to use to improve the team. CB is very often a position where guys take time to develop, so I think you have to give Slay,Bentley and even Greenwood a shot to show what they can do. Houston was hurt all year and has shown in the past that he can be a solid CB in this league. He's also probalby uncuttable due to his contract this year. We could use better CB play, but really the only true need we have there is for a legit #1 CB. We don't really have the money for one in free agency(if one is even out there), and there isn't one of those available at 10 overall, where I'd rather have a different position anyways.

Bring back Mathis or try to find someone similar for cheap and add him to the mix. Add another Greenwood type in the 4th or 5th. I don't want another Slay in the 2nd before we see what Slay truly is. Unless the value is great of course.
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Old 01-09-2014, 02:35 PM    (permalink
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Would you guys trade Fairley and 10 for Clowney?
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Old 01-09-2014, 02:45 PM    (permalink
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Would you guys trade Fairley and 10 for Clowney?
Yeah I would. Fairley has had injury issues, and we only control him for 2 years until we will no longer be able to afford him (no way we can sign him and Suh to an extension).

Ziggy and Clowney on the edges with Suh on the inside would be lethal. We can find a suitable DT to go next to Suh much easier than a dynamic DE who should easily put up 10+ sacks.

Losing the #10 would hurt, but the idea of having those 3 on one line would make it worth it to me. You look at what the Rams can do with their pressure and thats what I'd expect from Ansah and Clowney, but that doesn't even factor in Suh.
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Old 01-09-2014, 03:12 PM    (permalink
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I'd only trade him if we moved to a 34 and then it might be for Barr or a different pick. With that said, I badly want to win with the team we have and not trade away guys who we've put forward as our leaders. Plus, I still believe that interior pressure trumps outside any day.
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Old 01-09-2014, 03:17 PM    (permalink
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Yeah I would. Fairley has had injury issues, and we only control him for 2 years until we will no longer be able to afford him (no way we can sign him and Suh to an extension).

Ziggy and Clowney on the edges with Suh on the inside would be lethal. We can find a suitable DT to go next to Suh much easier than a dynamic DE who should easily put up 10+ sacks.

Losing the #10 would hurt, but the idea of having those 3 on one line would make it worth it to me. You look at what the Rams can do with their pressure and thats what I'd expect from Ansah and Clowney, but that doesn't even factor in Suh.
That could have been us. Robert Quinn instead of Fairley. Clowney and Fairley have the same character concerns and we'd get Clowney for 4 years at least instead of Fairley for one, maybe 2 depending on the option (which will be a decent sized cap number in 2015). Fairley costs the same on the roster as traded. 3.4 million on the cap in 2014. Plus Willie Young and Idonije gone. Jason Jones and Devin Taylor are good depth. Dline set for next 3 years at least (Ansah deal up and Suh extension). If they do that though they better get a good number 2 WR somehow in free agency or Round 2.
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