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Old 04-28-2014, 06:29 AM    (permalink
fredder
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I'm not sure about Bridgewater's stock at this point. The vast majority of reports I've seen have him dropping out of the top 10 and possibly the 1st round. Obviously, I think that' ridiculous but the fact that it's basically been every single report makes me feel it's pretty likely to happen.
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Old 04-28-2014, 06:42 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Iamcanadian View Post
We would certainly love it. IMO, 2 QB's will got top 2 after the Rams trade out. Where Bridgewater ends up is anybody's guess with Jacksonville, Cleveland, Oakland, Tampa Bay and Minny all desperately in need of a QB. Obviously, if 2 go top 2, then you can shrink the list by 1 and with Oakland signing Shaub, that's probably another one off the list, but I cannot see Bridgewater getting past the rest. Carr isn't in the picture IMO.

So, I think we are looking at 3 QB's getting drafted ahead of us which is great.

I can see Clowney, Manziel, Bortles, Robinson, Watkins, Matthews and Mack gone for sure, plus Bridgewater, and I expect Evans and either Barr, Gilbert or Lewan to go as well. So our pick may come down to Barr, Gilbert or Lewan.

I'd rate them
1) Barr DE/OLB
2) Lewan LT/RT
3) Gilbert CB

And I'll throw in a #4 in Ebron.

So, lets have a poll:

I vote for Lewan although I can easily live with Barr or Gilbert.
I'd rather jump off a building than have Lewan on the Lions. I don't want that piece of **** on this team.
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Old 04-28-2014, 09:16 AM    (permalink
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I don't want Lewan and I think any team that has done the due dilligence on him knows he is not the character they want. He was a big party guy in college and has gotten himself into his fair share of drunken altercations. I am not saying that due to the OSU report about him, I am saying that based off of first hand stories I have been told from recently graduated Ann Arbor students who work under me.

I think it is between HaHa and Barr unless someone falls.

I also 100% think that Mathews will be the pick if he is there. He gives us a great oline and the other thing we need to keep in mind is that Reiff is a free agent after this year. I'd rather be trying to resign my LG rather than my LT as the value between the 2 is very significant. Mathews can play every position on the oline and would give us one of the best in the league. It doesn't help short term needs, but he's a caliber player we can't just pass up.
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Old 04-28-2014, 09:18 AM    (permalink
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I have a feeling Ha Ha is higher than Gilbert. He should at least be included IMO
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Old 04-28-2014, 09:28 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Nastradamus View Post
I have a feeling Ha Ha is higher than Gilbert. He should at least be included IMO
Assuming the expected guys are off the board: (Clowney, Mack, Watkins, Robinson, Mathews, Evans)


I think Ha Ha will be the pick.

a round 1-3 draft of:

1) HaHa
2) Van Noy
3) Best WR on the board

Certainly wouldn't upset me. In round 4 find a developmental C and a big CB and I think we should be pretty happy. HaHa and Quinn as our last line of defense allows us to be pretty aggressive with our front 7, having a LB who can get to the QB in Van Noy will make our pass rush very dangerous and those safeties will have the many opportunities to make plays.
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Old 04-28-2014, 09:58 AM    (permalink
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Another name that really interests me in the 2nd is Cody Latimer. They guy has all the tools to be a very good WR and if we miss out on Watkins I would love to see him added to this roster.
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Old 04-28-2014, 11:14 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by detroit4life View Post
Assuming the expected guys are off the board: (Clowney, Mack, Watkins, Robinson, Mathews, Evans)


I think Ha Ha will be the pick.

a round 1-3 draft of:

1) HaHa
2) Van Noy
3) Best WR on the board

Certainly wouldn't upset me. In round 4 find a developmental C and a big CB and I think we should be pretty happy. HaHa and Quinn as our last line of defense allows us to be pretty aggressive with our front 7, having a LB who can get to the QB in Van Noy will make our pass rush very dangerous and those safeties will have the many opportunities to make plays.
I'd love this. Give me Landry for the WR, then maybe Janis too later.
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Old 04-28-2014, 11:15 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by detroit4life View Post
Another name that really interests me in the 2nd is Cody Lattimore. They guy has all the tools to be a very good WR and if we miss out on Watkins I would love to see him added to this roster.
Huge Lattimore fan. He's become my #5 or 6 WR in this class. I think he may go as high as 22.
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Old 04-28-2014, 11:25 AM    (permalink
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I'd love to get Jake Matthews at #10. He's head and shoulders above the other prospects we'd have to consider at that pick. IMO we could easily stand to improve at LT. Reiff has been nothing more than average there.
Sorry about the late response..

Reiff has started just one season in Detroit so you're using a small sample to base him on BUT Jake Matthews is the best LT in this draft IMO. Matthews is a Pro Bowl caliber player within 2 seasons that (unless Evans happens to fall to 10) he would be BPA and then the Leo's could move Reiff to Guard and which would give the Lions one of the best OL's in the league.
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Old 04-28-2014, 11:26 AM    (permalink
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I'd love this. Give me Landry for the WR, then maybe Janis too later.
Absolutely, it would be a great draft.
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Old 04-28-2014, 12:12 PM    (permalink
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Huge Lattimore fan. He's become my #5 or 6 WR in this class. I think he may go as high as 22.
Love Latimer(please watch your spelling, at first I didn't even know who you were talking about), solid 2nd rounder because he cannot workout. Not impossible for him to go late round 1, but round 2 seems a bit more realistic.
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Old 04-28-2014, 12:14 PM    (permalink
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Round 2 does seem more realistic, but there have been a lot of leaks about him coming out lately and he had a heavily watched pro day. I think he might be a guy who is higher on team boards than media boards, as the team's have done more due diligence.

My bad on the spelling, I copied what I quoted without thinking.
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Old 04-28-2014, 12:17 PM    (permalink
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Sorry about the late response..

Reiff has started just one season in Detroit so you're using a small sample to base him on BUT Jake Matthews is the best LT in this draft IMO. Matthews is a Pro Bowl caliber player within 2 seasons that (unless Evans happens to fall to 10) he would be BPA and then the Leo's could move Reiff to Guard and which would give the Lions one of the best OL's in the league.
Yeah, Matthews would be great, but I seriously doubt we get a shot and if we did pick him, Reiff likely goes to RT. OG's make 3 or 4 million less than OT's and no OT will agree to the switch without a huge fuss. See how unhappy Graham will be after getting TE money when he wanted WR money.

If we insisted on Reiff playing OG, he'd only give you a half hearted effort and would walk as soon as he was a FA.
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Old 04-28-2014, 12:19 PM    (permalink
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Round 2 does seem more realistic, but there have been a lot of leaks about him coming out lately and he had a heavily watched pro day. I think he might be a guy who is higher on team boards than media boards, as the team's have done more due diligence.

My bad on the spelling, I copied what I quoted without thinking.
I certainly think he has a shot at late round 1, just don't think it is a sure thing.

Latimer currently has a broken bone in his foot which is bound to drop him a bit.
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Old 04-28-2014, 12:19 PM    (permalink
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I don't want Lewan and I think any team that has done the due dilligence on him knows he is not the character they want. He was a big party guy in college and has gotten himself into his fair share of drunken altercations. I am not saying that due to the OSU report about him, I am saying that based off of first hand stories I have been told from recently graduated Ann Arbor students who work under me.

I think it is between HaHa and Barr unless someone falls.

I also 100% think that Mathews will be the pick if he is there. He gives us a great oline and the other thing we need to keep in mind is that Reiff is a free agent after this year. I'd rather be trying to resign my LG rather than my LT as the value between the 2 is very significant. Mathews can play every position on the oline and would give us one of the best in the league. It doesn't help short term needs, but he's a caliber player we can't just pass up.
Reiff is a FA, at earliest, after 2015, but we are all but guaranteed to pick up his 2016 option. He is definitely not a FA after this year.
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Old 04-28-2014, 12:22 PM    (permalink
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Reiff is a FA, at earliest, after 2015, but we are all but guaranteed to pick up his 2016 option. He is definitely not a FA after this year.
My mistake, yes he is a FA after the 2015 season. Not sure why I thought that.
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Old 04-28-2014, 12:24 PM    (permalink
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Reiff is a FA, at earliest, after 2015, but we are all but guaranteed to pick up his 2016 option. He is definitely not a FA after this year.
You would have one very unhappy player if you move him to OG, he'll skip training camp and hold out every year, he is with us. He'd become a total distraction, but I seriously doubt they would attempt to move him to OG anyways, way too talented to be wasted at OG when you can get the max out of him by playing him at RT.
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Old 04-28-2014, 01:46 PM    (permalink
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You would have one very unhappy player if you move him to OG, he'll skip training camp and hold out every year, he is with us. He'd become a total distraction, but I seriously doubt they would attempt to move him to OG anyways, way too talented to be wasted at OG when you can get the max out of him by playing him at RT.
This doesn't happen in real life, not in the new CBA where holdouts are near impossible. First of all, Reiff is not an established LT. He sat on the bench as a rookie and started one year, where he was solid but not great. Not to mention that he'd likely be a top OG rather than a solid LT, both of which make around 7 mil per year.

Reiff has 3 years left here most likely. He doesn't have the leverage to sit out or demand a position. Roger Saffold, a more established player who had only one year left on his contract, tried to say all that stuff last year. He went to TC and played every game he was healthy for.
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Old 04-28-2014, 02:38 PM    (permalink
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You would have one very unhappy player if you move him to OG, he'll skip training camp and hold out every year, he is with us. He'd become a total distraction, but I seriously doubt they would attempt to move him to OG anyways, way too talented to be wasted at OG when you can get the max out of him by playing him at RT.
You always make these claims as if they're fact and not just your opinion. As others have stated, he still has 3 years left on his contract. By your logic he would decide to hold out, be a huge pain to his team, give minimal effort at OG, and then likely get benched because of it because he was upset about the drop-off in pay from OT to OG. That makes sense because we all know that everyone will be lining up to sign a distraction that has only had one average season at LT to a huge contract........

He has 0 leverage in this situation and would be better off just accepting the shift to OG and putting his effort into being a top-level player at that position. That's the best way for him to maximize his money in the long-term.
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Old 04-28-2014, 03:22 PM    (permalink
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I agree with Nas and Fredder. I believe until we missed out on the top OTs last year the plan was to always move Reiff to OG. Reiff was not told that he was going to be at LT last year until well after the draft. Yes he had 1 solid year at LT but that doesn't warrant him to throw a fit if he is moved. Mayhew has never indicated that Reiff was set at one position and his value to this team has always been his ability to play guard.

Yes Reiff could also play RT, but if Waddle proves that last year was not a fluke and continues to develop we aren't going to bench him, that doesn't make sense. The logical move would be to move Reiff to LG and have a very good oline. It also helps that Waddle is a starting RT a dirt cheap cap hit.
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Old 04-28-2014, 09:41 PM    (permalink
Iamcanadian
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Sorry, but in real life, people just don't accept a downward move involving pay without creating a huge problem. I've been an owner of a company long enough to know, people just don't accept demotion without becoming a serious company headache. You are far better off firing them completely or in the case of a pro football player, trading him before he becomes a total distraction to the team.
When you demote a worker and cut his earning potential, everybody on the team will look at him sideways, including his friends and family, if he just accepts the demotion without raising a huge fuss.

You are all dreaming if you think this is a simple thing to accomplish. The demotion would cost him in the neighbourhood of 3 to 4 million dollars a year once he reaches FA and believe me, you are going to have one extremely unhappy employee if you do it. It is one thing to demote a failure to a lessor position, with him knowing full well, that unless he makes the move, he will be out of the league, it is quite another, to get someone to accept a demotion when by everybody's standards, he just completed a very decent season.

This isn't a chessboard where you can move the pieces without them complaining, these are real people, with real feelings and it is a sure way to create a cancer on your team. He won't completely quite on his performance, but he will find ways to hurt the team just when they need him the most.

How did Albert, LT of KC accept the idea of moving him to RT never mind OG, they had to let him stay at LT for one more year before releasing him, to make room for Fisher to switch to LT and that is what you will have to do with Reiff or the whole team could unravel.
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Old 04-28-2014, 09:57 PM    (permalink
fredder
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamcanadian View Post
Sorry, but in real life, people just don't accept a downward move involving pay without creating a huge problem. I've been an owner of a company long enough to know, people just don't accept demotion without becoming a serious company headache. You are far better off firing them completely or in the case of a pro football player, trading him before he becomes a total distraction to the team.
When you demote a worker and cut his earning potential, everybody on the team will look at him sideways, including his friends and family, if he just accepts the demotion without raising a huge fuss.

You are all dreaming if you think this is a simple thing to accomplish. The demotion would cost him in the neighbourhood of 3 to 4 million dollars a year once he reaches FA and believe me, you are going to have one extremely unhappy employee if you do it. It is one thing to demote a failure to a lessor position, with him knowing full well, that unless he makes the move, he will be out of the league, it is quite another, to get someone to accept a demotion when by everybody's standards, he just completed a very decent season.

This isn't a chessboard where you can move the pieces without them complaining, these are real people, with real feelings and it is a sure way to create a cancer on your team. He won't completely quite on his performance, but he will find ways to hurt the team just when they need him the most.

How did Albert, LT of KC accept the idea of moving him to RT never mind OG, they had to let him stay at LT for one more year before releasing him, to make room for Fisher to switch to LT and that is what you will have to do with Reiff or the whole team could unravel.
Brandon Albert had played 6 consecutive seasons at LT and was entering free agency at the end of they year. He had been a very good LT for 3-4 consecutive years at that point. Reiff on the other hand was a backup as a rookie and just had an average year at LT. He's 3 years away from free agency. These two scenarios aren't even close to being the same.

These types of scenarios happen all of the time. You earn your spot on the field based on your performance and at the end of the day the team is going to do whatever it can to win games. If there's a LT in the draft that's the best pick they're going to make it. If they then decide that Reiff is better suited for the move to OG than Waddle that's what they're going to do. If Reiff doesn't like it he can go sit on the bench for 3 years and see how much teams are willing to pay him after that.

The NFL is a COMPETITIVE workplace and if you're not the best guy for the job then the team will make a change. You hope that the majority of guys will work hard to help the team win games anyway they can.

As others have said anyways, you'll be paid better as an elite OG than a mediocre RT.
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Old 04-29-2014, 10:43 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamcanadian View Post
Sorry, but in real life, people just don't accept a downward move involving pay without creating a huge problem. I've been an owner of a company long enough to know, people just don't accept demotion without becoming a serious company headache. You are far better off firing them completely or in the case of a pro football player, trading him before he becomes a total distraction to the team.
When you demote a worker and cut his earning potential, everybody on the team will look at him sideways, including his friends and family, if he just accepts the demotion without raising a huge fuss.

You are all dreaming if you think this is a simple thing to accomplish. The demotion would cost him in the neighbourhood of 3 to 4 million dollars a year once he reaches FA and believe me, you are going to have one extremely unhappy employee if you do it. It is one thing to demote a failure to a lessor position, with him knowing full well, that unless he makes the move, he will be out of the league, it is quite another, to get someone to accept a demotion when by everybody's standards, he just completed a very decent season.

This isn't a chessboard where you can move the pieces without them complaining, these are real people, with real feelings and it is a sure way to create a cancer on your team. He won't completely quite on his performance, but he will find ways to hurt the team just when they need him the most.

How did Albert, LT of KC accept the idea of moving him to RT never mind OG, they had to let him stay at LT for one more year before releasing him, to make room for Fisher to switch to LT and that is what you will have to do with Reiff or the whole team could unravel.
They never tried to move Albert and their #1 pick played RT without a peep. Poor example.

Reiff might not like it, but he doesn't have the leverage to do anything about it. It also won't cost him much if he's a top of the line OG. Jake Long and Jahri Evans make the same amount. Reiff was never going to get elite LT money in the 9-11 per year range. He's a 5-8 milliion dollar player at either position. Its only a paycut if you are equally effective at both positions.
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Old 04-29-2014, 05:29 PM    (permalink
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Is Lewan that much better of a prospect than Gilbert/Dennard, Barr, Clinton-Dix and Ebron or any WR not named Watkins/Evans to justify taking a tackle? If yes, then Mayhew might go Lewan, if no he'll probably go with a different position.

Lewan makes future sense with Sims hitting free agency in 2015 and Reiff's versatility. But Hilliard is solid depth for 2014 at tackle. Rodney Austin or a rookie is unknown depth at guard.

Tackle just doesn't give you that good intial feeling but long term it could make sense. I think Mayhew is more win now so Gilbert/Dennard, Barr and Ebron make more sense.
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Old 04-29-2014, 09:34 PM    (permalink
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I think that, strictly based on tape, Lewan is a better prospect than the guys you mentioned. I always try to avoid making judgements on players' off-the-field questions but it's worth mentioning that Lewan's character is in question and that risk could push him at or below the level of the other prospects. Any team will have to make a point of getting a read on his character before drafting him. If it checks out 100% I'd be fine taking him at 10 if they're not in love with any of the other prospects.

It's worth mentioning that, while OT may not be the huge need that S and CB are, it's arguably a more important position than either.

Gilbert/Dennard's rookie contributions are tough to gauge. CBs tend to struggle as rookies and I don't think either is a sure thing. Dennard is better right now but Gilbert has better upside. I don't think either are worth a top 10 pick.

Barr would be a solid pick if the coaches believe they can find a good fit for him in their system. I'm a little concerned about his ability to contribute in multiple ways as a rookie though. The only thing I feel confident in him doing as a rookie is rushing the passer. If you can put in a position to do that often I think he'll be fine. It's certainly something we could use on this team.
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