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Old 04-26-2013, 12:41 AM    (permalink
DrewyVuitton
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Originally Posted by Go Cowboys View Post
Just a quick thought: Not sure how I feel about the pick but it brought back a memory. Patriots and Belicheck trading down to the late 1st... And taking a guy that some rated as a 3rd round guard, most as a 2nd round....Logan Mankins.... It's worked pretty well for them considering every analyst was screaming reach.

Not saying this guy will be as good as Mankins, but who's to say we didn't have him graded as a high 2nd rounder and had a feeling he wouldn't make it to our next pick? If he starts and is consistent for 10 years it's a great pick.
According to Stephen the Cowboys had 19 players with 1st round grades. Frederick was supposedly the highest ranked player on the board at the time.

Stephen also claims the Cowboys got more value than they should have in the trade based on the current draft chart.

So basically he's full of BS and said what every team says. We got our guy and we came out on top in the trade.
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Old 04-26-2013, 12:41 AM    (permalink
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In the draft forum under the winners/losers thread, the Cowboys are the one team everyone is picking as a loser.

Does it not raise a red flag with you guys that no one is praising the pick other than fans of the team? Can you really lack that much objectivity?
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As for Frederick, I think I'm one of the few that wasn't surprised. Many scouts loved him, saying he was better than DeCastro and Zietler, and twice the player Peter Konz was/is
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I don't understand the hate for Frederick. He played out of position this past year and is an excellent guard prospect.
Depends on which posts you wanna read I guess. I get the controversy about the pick. Obviously wasn't a clear consensus as to where the draftnik community rated him. If we took him higher than he deserved, I can live with that if he pans out. If he doesn't pan out then sure, he will be hated as much as Jacob Rogers.
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Old 04-26-2013, 12:42 AM    (permalink
DrewyVuitton
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And everybody is saying that SF got a steal with Reid. I don't think Reid is anything special. I don't think he will be a superstar, but with SF he will be a solid player. It just depends which team picks u.....
Sundquist said reach. I see people calling him a reach in the winners/losers board.

Of course Harbaugh said Reid was their highest rated safety. Lol.
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Old 04-26-2013, 12:43 AM    (permalink
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Depends on which posts you wanna read I guess. I get the controversy about the pick. Obviously wasn't a clear consensus as to where the draftnik community rated him. If we took him higher than he deserved, I can live with that if he pans out. If he doesn't pan out then sure, he will be hated as much as Jacob Rogers.
I chose to read the other 95% of the posts in there. Not the 2 exceptions you found.

Oh so now he's a guard prospect?

Yet we took him over Warford and Winters.

And he still doesn't fit a ZBS.

The ZBS you were so excited for.

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Old 04-26-2013, 12:44 AM    (permalink
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At 18, I wanted a TE or WR. To end up with a C at 31... I can't really complain.

I know you've wanted DT, but I have never been on board with DT throughout this process and you know that. The only way I'd want one is if an elite talent fell to us. When Richardson was gone and Star got drafted ahead of us, I was done thinking of DTs.

I wish we could've traded up for Cooper or Warmack but we still got interior OL help.

The only elite talent that I think we passed on was Eifert. Everyone else has something to knock on.
so you're okay with basically counting on 6 guys to play the four positions in the 4-3. 3 of the starters will be 30+ with two coming off major surgery and our backups are an undistinguished 3rd round pick and undrafted free agent who got roughed up good over the last 6 weeks of the year.

the cowboys are playing with fire. were one injury away from ben calloway playing 25+ snaps/game

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Old 04-26-2013, 12:47 AM    (permalink
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I don't believe so. Ted Sundquist and Charley Casserly are both former GM's. they could care less about correctly mocking a player. They are ranking them as they would if they were running a team.

Sundquist told me immediately after the 49ers picked Reid that he didnt have him as a first rounder. And he maintained that through out the entire pre draft process despite the hype Reid gained after his pro day.

Casserly has a guy like Ansah he has consistently said he wouldn't take in the top 20 because he's too risky. Despite what everyone else is saying.

They are truthful in their evals.
...their evals have gotten them fired from being GMs. It's just crazy to stack up our draft according to their rankings and use their list as the grading scale to base our grade off of. Crazy.

I'd put more weight into Bill Parcells' rankings if he had one... but even then, his record on OL was butt ugly while he was here. Just goes to show what a crap shoot this process is.

Just give it time. The concentration on addressing the right need was spot on. OL, OL, OL... I hope we're not done there either.
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Old 04-26-2013, 12:52 AM    (permalink
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so you're okay with basically counting on 6 guys to play the four positions in the 4-3. 3 of the starters will be 30+ with two coming off major surgery and our backups are an undistinguished 3rd round pick and undrafted free agent who got roughed up good over the last 6 weeks of the year.

the cowboys are playing with fire. were one injury away from ben calloway playing 25+ snaps/game
Is the draft over? Did I miss something?

I don't get it man... the Cowboys finally do what everyone has bashed them for NOT doing since the beginning of time and you're up in arms???

Jeez. YES, I'd rather have a starter for the next decade on the interior OL than a rotational DT, YES.
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Old 04-26-2013, 01:02 AM    (permalink
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I agree with u 100%.

People have to realize that every team is different and u just can't be picking based on Scout INc...top 100. You have to think of what you have...under contract and so forth. We can't draft a positon were we have a log jam....we needed a center and we got one...while he might play guard he is a center and I hope he starts there.

I think we will continue tomorrow with some solid picks.
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Old 04-26-2013, 01:05 AM    (permalink
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Is the draft over? Did I miss something?

I don't get it man... the Cowboys finally do what everyone has bashed them for NOT doing since the beginning of time and you're up in arms???

Jeez. YES, I'd rather have a starter for the next decade on the interior OL than a rotational DT, YES.
I have to wonder what you'll feel after we get to see the Dallas defense in real action. Be sure to ridicule me if I'm wrong about the defense potentially being a disaster area for the Cowboys who are switching to a Cover 2 but relying mostly on their former 3-4 players to carry it out.
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Old 04-26-2013, 01:08 AM    (permalink
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Is the draft over? Did I miss something?

I don't get it man... the Cowboys finally do what everyone has bashed them for NOT doing since the beginning of time and you're up in arms???

Jeez. YES, I'd rather have a starter for the next decade on the interior OL than a rotational DT, YES.
not only could have gotten a player that could start at d-line in the first that fits the scheme. we couldve gotten an o-lineman at 47 that could start as well, we won't find a interior d-lineman as good crawford at 47.

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Old 04-26-2013, 01:10 AM    (permalink
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I chose to read the other 95% of the posts in their. Not the 2 exceptions you found.

Oh so now he's a guard prospect?

Yet we took him over Warford and Winters.

And he still doesn't fit a ZBS.

The ZBS you were so excited for.
95%... too funny. vidae, SP, keak and Iamcanadian. okayyy

His versatility is a plus. I think he ends up at C.

I am excited about the ZBS. Really excited. But which positions on the OL demand mobility and quickness most? OG and OT. C much less so. What's gonna happen most likely? We'll be running both schemes like 95% of the league does. We'll be fine with Frederick. More than fine. C is the most important position on the line and we got a guy who's easy to fall in love with.
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Old 04-26-2013, 01:14 AM    (permalink
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I don't think we go safety in rd. 2, maybe 3rd rd.

Just watched Frederick in the Stanford game. Ball looked good running the football. QB had time, no great push up the middle.

We can't grade this pick for three years. The trade, though the draft value chart says we received less in return, eh. Again, only time will tell........we'll see who we get at #74!

Garrett should have just come out and said Frederick was our starting Center. Hell, that's what I wanted to hear.

I/we need starters with these picks today, not rotation guys.

I remember when Parcells drafted C, Al Johnson. He talked about how hard finding a good Center was, that when you did find one, you just found your anchor for the next 10 plus years.
We missed on Johnson, but hopefully Frederick is THE guy to anchor our O-Line for the years to come.

Seattle took heat last year when they drafted DE, Bruce Irvin in the first rd. He turned out to be a real good player for them based on his rookie contributions.

Have to trust the Scouts after the trade down.......

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Old 04-26-2013, 01:14 AM    (permalink
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I have to wonder what you'll feel after we get to see the Dallas defense in real action. Be sure to ridicule me if I'm wrong about the defense potentially being a disaster area for the Cowboys who are switching to a Cover 2 but relying mostly on their former 3-4 players to carry it out.
OK, they will be "potentially" a disaster area. Guess what? OL was ALREADY a disaster area.

So tell me where Ratliff and Hatcher fall short of accomplishing in this new defense.

Who was the guy you thought we should've taken at 31?
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Old 04-26-2013, 01:23 AM    (permalink
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Cypien might be there at 47.....and if not Short will be there. I am not an expert, but who would be the next safety up? Cyprien and Philips was the difference?
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Old 04-26-2013, 01:23 AM    (permalink
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I don't think we go safety in rd. 2, maybe 3rd rd.

Just watched Frederick in the Stanford game. Ball looked good running the football. QB had time, no great push up the middle.

We can't grade this pick for three years. The trade, though the draft value chart says we received less in return, eh. Again, only time will tell........we'll see who we get at #74!

Garrett should have just come out and said Frederick was our starting Center. Hell, that's what I wanted to hear.

I/we need starters with these picks today, not rotation guys.

I remember when Parcells drafted C, Al Johnson. He talked about how hard finding a good Center was. That when you did find one, you just found your anchor for the next 10 plus years.
We missed on Johnson, but hope Frederick is THE guy to anchor our O-Line for the years to come.
then its deja vu a decade later. it was johnson in 2003 and frederick in 2013
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Old 04-26-2013, 01:40 AM    (permalink
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I have a feeling a lot of guys are gonna be thinking twice about this pick once Murray starts busting runs up the middle, Tony is standing clean in the pocket and we're controlling the clock in the 4th quarter.
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Old 04-26-2013, 01:59 AM    (permalink
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So Garrett says that Kyle Wilber is a DE in the 4-3. I guess that opens up a starting position at OLB and comes into play tomorrow.

http://cowboysblog.dallasnews.com/20...sive-end.html/
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Old 04-26-2013, 02:25 AM    (permalink
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So Garrett says that Kyle Wilber is a DE in the 4-3. I guess that opens up a starting position at OLB and comes into play tomorrow.

http://cowboysblog.dallasnews.com/20...sive-end.html/
Justin Durant will start, but there could be some value on the board at LB.
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Old 04-26-2013, 02:34 AM    (permalink
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Well again, that escalated quickly!

Anyway, I haven't had the time to watch college football last year or even read something about the draft. So I don't know this guy, like 95% of the other guys that have been and will be drafted.

I'm with D-Unit anyway, this guy is a Cowboy so I will be his #1 fan. I won't complain, instead I hope i will be successful. There are lot of fans that do the opposite just for the fabulous accomplishment of being right on the internet. Big deal. That's not supporting your team.
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Old 04-26-2013, 02:35 AM    (permalink
DrewyVuitton
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...their evals have gotten them fired from being GMs. It's just crazy to stack up our draft according to their rankings and use their list as the grading scale to base our grade off of. Crazy.

I'd put more weight into Bill Parcells' rankings if he had one... but even then, his record on OL was butt ugly while he was here. Just goes to show what a crap shoot this process is.

Just give it time. The concentration on addressing the right need was spot on. OL, OL, OL... I hope we're not done there either.
LOL TERRIBLE argument.

What GM hasn't been fired?

Sundquist has 2 superbowls. Casserly has 1 as assistant GM and also won executive of the year twice. So yeah, I think they know a thing or two about building franchises.

Jerry has never been fired, neither was Al Davis. So if that's your standard.

There is no "need" as in OL is fixed and this team is fixed.

You need to realize this team isn't a contender no matter who they draft. Should be picking BPA because they're 2 years away from even being contenders.

I don't care if they drafted Cooper and Warmack, this team still wouldn't be a contender. That's the flaw in your thinking.

You think reaching for OL is going to help this team. It isn't.

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Old 04-26-2013, 02:35 AM    (permalink
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Cypien might be there at 47.....and if not Short will be there. I am not an expert, but who would be the next safety up? Cyprien and Philips was the difference?
Swearinger after Cyprien
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Old 04-26-2013, 02:37 AM    (permalink
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Is the draft over? Did I miss something?

I don't get it man... the Cowboys finally do what everyone has bashed them for NOT doing since the beginning of time and you're up in arms???

Jeez. YES, I'd rather have a starter for the next decade on the interior OL than a rotational DT, YES.
Lol. So Frederick is a starter for the next decade but Richardson, Williams, Floyd whoever is a rotational player?

Hatcher is in the final year of his deal and Ratliff is declining. You're so short sighted.
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Old 04-26-2013, 02:39 AM    (permalink
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95%... too funny. vidae, SP, keak and Iamcanadian. okayyy

His versatility is a plus. I think he ends up at C.

I am excited about the ZBS. Really excited. But which positions on the OL demand mobility and quickness most? OG and OT. C much less so. What's gonna happen most likely? We'll be running both schemes like 95% of the league does. We'll be fine with Frederick. More than fine. C is the most important position on the line and we got a guy who's easy to fall in love with.
95% of the league does not run both. They may mix it in here or there but it's predominately one or the other. Players are drafted to fit scheme.

Quit making **** up

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Old 04-26-2013, 03:10 AM    (permalink
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http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/...ett-Jones.html

Promising analysis on Frederick. Still doesn't change the fact that he was a reach. And that he doesn't fit a ZBS. But at least ppl think he can play.
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Old 04-26-2013, 03:42 AM    (permalink
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LOL TERRIBLE argument.

What GM hasn't been fired?

Sundquist has 2 superbowls. Casserly has 1 as assistant GM and also won executive of the year twice. So yeah, I think they know a thing or two about building franchises.

Jerry has never been fired, neither was Al Davis. So if that's your standard.

There is no "need" as in OL is fixed and this team is fixed.

You need to realize this team isn't a contender no matter who they draft. Should be picking BPA because they're 2 years away from even being contenders.

I don't care if they drafted Cooper and Warmack, this team still wouldn't be a contender. That's the flaw in your thinking.

You think reaching for OL is going to help this team. It isn't.
If you want to put it that way then Jerry has 3 SBs. lol

The bottom line is that their board is not the basis for grading our board. He might have been a reach, but not so terrible to think that we're not gonna get anything positive out of this. It's like the sky is falling down. I don't care what our grade is. I only care if he pans out or not.
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