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Old 04-29-2013, 02:22 PM    (permalink
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D, Ill give you credit, your trying to find ways to justify/love the pick lol I admire that ;)
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Old 04-29-2013, 02:24 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by pocketaces View Post
Scott had him ranked 55 which would mean he should/would be there at our 47 pick right? Also we were screwed according to the chart value. 18th pick = 900 31st = 600 we got back 220. An even trade would have been the 60th pick(2nd round) and we got back the 74th pick. iDK how that is exactly what we should have gotten back.
I thought we should have gotten more at the time also, all I use are trade value charts randomly on the internet. I was more or less just going with what Scott said in his summary of the 1st round, that we got perceived value for the pick and only Oakland was shafted. Doesn't mean he's right, I was just curious what he felt about it.
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I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.
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Old 04-29-2013, 02:30 PM    (permalink
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In my opinion, Frederick will have more of an impact than either Eifert or Floyd in 2013. The only difference is that you won't see it.

If Floyd ends up having a decent amount of tackles, hurries, sacks, etc. you will see those stats and think wow, he's making an impact.

You will be able to quantify what Eifert does this year by looking at stats and see how he is fairing.

The one place that stats won't tell you the whole story is how the center is playing. Sacks given up and penalties as well as rushing yards are thing you will contribute to other factors. But it very well could mean that Frederick has done a great job of keeping Tony clean as well as opening holes for our running game.

We all know OLine is a unit and should be judged as such, but most of the time individuals will get the blame.

So my hope is that you don't really even notice Frederick a whole lot this year, that will mean he is most likely doing his job, and doing it well.
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Old 04-29-2013, 02:34 PM    (permalink
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D, Ill give you credit, your trying to find ways to justify/love the pick lol I admire that ;)
Hey, I can't always do that, but when I can..... I try. haha.

There have certainly been picks in the past that I couldn't wrap my head around. I remember being so mad about Felix Jones, but so happy about Mike Jenkins. Goes to show... I can be mad and happy about picks, but in the end, if they don't make it past their rookie contracts, does it matter? Nope.

I think Frederick will end up being one of the better picks of the 1st round. For A LOT of 1st rounders, their success hinges on them reaching their sexy upside. They get picked high because of that oozing potential. But for Frederick, he was taken for what he already is. The pick is almost bashed because he doesn't exude the idea of a player with immense upside, but he could be one of the safest picks because he's a plug 'n play player from Day 1.
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Old 04-29-2013, 02:43 PM    (permalink
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Hey, I can't always do that, but when I can..... I try. haha.

There have certainly been picks in the past that I couldn't wrap my head around. I remember being so mad about Felix Jones, but so happy about Mike Jenkins. Goes to show... I can be mad and happy about picks, but in the end, if they don't make it past their rookie contracts, does it matter? Nope.

I think Frederick will end up being one of the better picks of the 1st round. For A LOT of 1st rounders, their success hinges on them reaching their sexy upside. They get picked high because of that oozing potential. But for Frederick, he was taken for what he already is. The pick is almost bashed because he doesn't exude the idea of a player with immense upside, but he could be one of the safest picks because he's a plug 'n play player from Day 1.


I agree with that but hell, Im not sure you and I wouldnt be plug and play players with this line. If hes our only upgrade then I think we still wont be able to run the ball and Tony will still be running for his life. We need more than 1 upgrade
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Old 04-29-2013, 04:36 PM    (permalink
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Hyperbole much?
I already asked you to clear your throat before talking to me.
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Old 04-29-2013, 04:37 PM    (permalink
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Some Scouts had Fred as a solid 6th rounder.

At least that is what ESPN says.
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Old 04-29-2013, 04:42 PM    (permalink
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Some Scouts had Fred as a solid 6th rounder.

At least that is what ESPN says.
Probably a team that is already set at C. Teams usually factor in need when putting together their board.

But it's ESPN. So they probably made it up. They won't tell you the team, right? lol Of course not.
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Old 04-29-2013, 04:43 PM    (permalink
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I already asked you to clear your throat before talking to me.
But I'm the only one who responds to you because most everyone else has you on blocked. LOL
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Old 04-29-2013, 05:02 PM    (permalink
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But I'm the only one who responds to you because most everyone else has you on blocked. LOL
Clowns gonna clown ha ha
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Old 04-29-2013, 05:36 PM    (permalink
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Some Scouts had Fred as a solid 6th rounder.

At least that is what ESPN says.
The scout that watched Fred and game him a 6th round grade needs to be fired. Period. And I ain't smiling when I say that.
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Old 04-29-2013, 06:00 PM    (permalink
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The scout that watched Fred and game him a 6th round grade needs to be fired. Period. And I ain't smiling when I say that.
He probably was embarrassed. I know if I was a scout and I gave the team info that so and so was a 6th round pick and he got taken in the 1st round, that I would be embarrassed about walking in the room the next day to work.
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Old 04-29-2013, 06:06 PM    (permalink
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Let me just ask EVERYBODY on this board, play along with me. Jerry Jones comes to this board and says Im going to let you guys pick our first 2 draft picks but you have to pick them from this grouping, the most votes wins.

Group (A) Eifert and Warford. (B) Floyd and Warford (C) With a trade down Cyprien and Warford and Williams (D) Elam and Warford and Williams or (E) Fredrick and Escobar and Williams

Now if you guys are honest, there is NOT ONE person on this board that would have taken group (E). Not only that but even if we didnt trade down we still probably would have gotten Williams in the 3rd if we wanted him over Wilcox. Anybody going to argue against that?
Guess everybody is going to avoid the question. Rightfully so...
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Old 04-29-2013, 06:45 PM    (permalink
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Guess everybody is going to avoid the question. Rightfully so...
For me that's not even a question. But it depends on what question you are asking. Did we have the best draft possible? Did we have the best draft out of all 32 teams? Did we maximize value on every pick? The answer to all those questions are no. In fact I could have given you my preferred scenario pre-draft, and in hindsight, and it wouldn't be anywhere near close to what we did.


For instance: We reached on Frederick, I hated picking a 2nd TE on a premium pick with so many needs, hated taking a WR so early when passing the ball isn't the problem, we didn't solidify a for sure starting Safety in one of the best Safety classes in a long time. Those are all very much my thoughts. But that doesn't mean I have to force myself to hate the draft and act like we didn't get any good players.


This draft feels absolutely nothing like 2009. Frederick was a reach, but I bitched about a Center all off-season, and I think we have a 10+ year starter in the middle and finally solidify our interior blocking(which still has a ways to go but its a start devoting premium assets). Everything else about Frederick is absolutely true, but if I feel that's what he can be why should I stay mad about the pick?


Gavin Escobar is a guy I watched the entire process and was a huge fan of along with Kelce and Jake Stoneburner. He is a really, really good TE I thought could develop into a beast. I was looking at him going somewhere like Atl to groom for a year, I honestly didn't give one ounce of thought at us taking a TE so it caught me off guard, pissed me off and still does. But he is going to be a good player I truly believe and learning from Witten is only going to help.


Terrance Williams is another guy I saw a ton of and really liked, but again, I was saying NO to any WR all off-season so it's another pick I hated. But he's still a good player and a future starter/replacement for Austin in a few years. It does give us something dynamic on the outside and in the case of Austin getting a hammy flare up we have a big fast target on the outside. Again, hate that pick but I think he'll be good.


3-6 we killed it IMO. Wilcox is praised all over the place, Mayock loves him and scouts Safeties pretty hard, BW Webb is another one of his favorites who he talked about for at least a round before he went(figure I should mention what he think since it's brought up so much how he had Frederick as a 3rd rd grade), Randle was good value and a position of need which I'm glad we waited on, and Hollomon I hear is a SLB prospect which is all I said we needed and fits our D. I trust what Kiffin saw and input he gave on those guys on that side of the ball. My main gripe with Wilcox is he looks much better if we got a plug and play Safety earlier, and signed a guy to play for now.


So all in all, I'm just taking in the guys we do have, and I know in 3-4 years we will have some contributing good players from this class. Of course I hated a ton of picks and things we did, but at this point I'm just trying to learn about who we did get and how they may fit going forward.
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Old 04-29-2013, 07:25 PM    (permalink
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Don't kill the messenger, but I hated the 1st half of Dallas's draft, loved the middle part and the end part never matters to me anyways as you are mostly talking about special team's players.

Prior to the draft I suggested Reid and Sylvester Williams, because I thought it expedient to help Kiffin build his Cover 2 defense. I reasoned that Dallas would score just about the same amount of points with Romo at QB that they did last year and therefore offensive players in the draft would be complementary but not necessarily all that important.

I could see making an exception if one of Warmack or Cooper fell to their spot because I believed they were special talents and well worth the risk to pass on defense to get one of them. However, when they were both gone early, I thought defense was the proper way to go. After all, the HOF is full of OC's who went round 2/3 and it isn't necessary to waste a 1st round pick on one.

The only justification I could see for drafting Fredrick would be if you think he can be your starting RT because his size suggests he can handle the switch but as a 5.54 40 type guy, I'd say he will really struggle playing OC where quickness and mobility are so important for the position. It would pretty well make him the slowest OC in the league. I do feel he could be a solid starting OG but nothing special.

I don't hate the next 2 picks Escobar and Williams, they are 2 excellent prospects but in my opinion they are complementary pieces to the Dallas offense and really not at all that necessary. I would have thought that Jerry would give Kiffin some real weapons for his defense to help build a solid Cover 2 scheme, I really don't understand Jerry's thinking on drafting offense over defense given the situation.

The Wilcox/Webb picks were excellent and should prove very useful but if you had added them to 2 more excellent defenders in rounds 2/3, the rebuild of your defense could have been on solid ground with some decent starters and some real depth. Now I just don't know.

I've followed the draft for over 55 years and watched an awful lot of teams draft for success and I know from experience that switching defenses may look easy on paper but in reality, it is a tough process, and so it schocked me that Jerry seems to have made that decision without weighing some of the problems, his team will face on that side of the ball and not drafting accordingly. Just my thoughts.
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Old 04-29-2013, 07:28 PM    (permalink
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Guess everybody is going to avoid the question. Rightfully so...
I'll give you a really honest answer. Going into the draft, I would probably go with A. Eifert and Warford. Those were the guys I knew most and while I wasn't a big fan of Warford (I had him as my 8th best OG - see below), I was a REALLY big fan of Eifert.

1. Jonathan Cooper, UNC
2. Chance Warmack, Alabama
3. Justin Pugh, Syracuse
4. Kyle Long, Oregon
5. Alvin Bailey, Aransas
6. Brian Winters, Kent State
7. Hugh Thornton, Illinois
8. Larry Warford, Kentucky


But knowing what I know now after in-depth study of the players, I would take E. I obviously didn't scout our players hard enough to learn all the little things about them that make me like them now. But now that I do have this new knowledge, I'm perfectly fine with it. I have high hopes for Frederick. Escobar seems like he'll have an impact early. Williams is more than a security blanket for Austin. I think he's Austin's heir.

But I have to say, if I had my own choosing (with all hindsight), I'd have gone with this.

1. Travis Frederick
2. DJ Swearinger
3. Keenan Allen
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Old 04-29-2013, 07:47 PM    (permalink
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Guess everybody is going to avoid the question. Rightfully so...
The question here is how good Warford is vs. Frederick. In each scenario you're talking about getting one OL at a needful spot, and that depends on how good you see each guy. I can see why someone would want Warford. I liked him too. Outside of Cooper and Warmack he's the other guard I saw a bit of, and he has some potential. Looking at both on YouTube I see Frederick as being a little faster at getting to the next level while Warford seems to play stronger. With each pick it doesn't seem so bad on my limited viewings of the two. I can see a preference for Frederick's versatility though. Then again if Warford looks better in their eyes it's not a bad pick either. Both have pros to them, but Frederick has more to like on paper with the Wonderlic and playing two spots.

Now the Eifert thing to me isn't special because we're talking about getting a TE while Witten is still going strong. No matter who you pick they're going to be second to Witten, so it doesn't matter to me getting Eifert or Escobar since I wasn't really feeling them getting a TE. I see reasons to like Escobar, but right now I would have rather them go another direction. Eifert might be awesome, but neither guy is going to unseat Witten right now unless they're insanely good. With TE not being a big need, why spend your first pick on one when we're already thinking that they used too high of a pick on one? Some of us are mad about the 2nd rounder, so a first rounder doesn't make it any better considering the circumstances.

Floyd is a guy that I'm not high on, but that's only because I'm only seen a little bit of him playing. I wouldn't have gotten mad at all if they got him, but DT wasn't as big of a need as OL. The tricky part is putting Warford along with him. DT was more of a need in my eyes than the TE position, which I never thought was a need to begin with. I'd pick Floyd and Warford over Frederick and Escobar based on need.

Cyprien/Elam and the other two with Warford and Williams wouldn't have been bad at all if the safeties are pretty good. Here's where the issue lies though. The safety class was supposed to be deep, right? Well what about the center class? If safety is deep on their board then it doesn't seem so bad passing some guys up to get what you consider one awesome center out of a few decent ones. Center is a bigger need, and if there is one that stands leaps above the rest while you have about 6-8 safeties you'd want to pick then it's not so bad getting the center. How good is Wilcox vs. Cyprien or Elam? That depends, but you gotta throw in Frederick with that too. Both safety and OL were huge needs, and I can't blame them going with the one center they really wanted while passing on a couple of safeties. You can only get one pick out of them all, and either direction is fine with me right now since I can't tell the future. Now a few years from now that may change, but their logic isn't so bad in my eyes when you consider that they still got a safety with a decently high pick.
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Old 04-29-2013, 07:56 PM    (permalink
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I'll give you a really honest answer. Going into the draft, I would probably go with A. Eifert and Warford. Those were the guys I knew most and while I wasn't a big fan of Warford (I had him as my 8th best OG - see below), I was a REALLY big fan of Eifert.

1. Jonathan Cooper, UNC
2. Chance Warmack, Alabama
3. Justin Pugh, Syracuse
4. Kyle Long, Oregon
5. Alvin Bailey, Aransas
6. Brian Winters, Kent State
7. Hugh Thornton, Illinois
8. Larry Warford, Kentucky


But knowing what I know now after in-depth study of the players, I would take E. I obviously didn't scout our players hard enough to learn all the little things about them that make me like them now. But now that I do have this new knowledge, I'm perfectly fine with it. I have high hopes for Frederick. Escobar seems like he'll have an impact early. Williams is more than a security blanket for Austin. I think he's Austin's heir.

But I have to say, if I had my own choosing (with all hindsight), I'd have gone with this.

1. Travis Frederick
2. DJ Swearinger
3. Keenan Allen
I think you've talked yourself into loving the Fredrick pick and now that you've hyped him so much, you dont want to go back on it. I dont recall you ever talking about Fredrick as a 1st round option or even someone we should consisder pre draft. Im not positive where he was as far as your Center rankings but I know he wasnt #1. To say now that we drafted him, hes who you would have taken over all other options makes me think Hmmmm
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Old 04-29-2013, 08:07 PM    (permalink
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The question here is how good Warford is vs. Frederick. In each scenario you're talking about getting one OL at a needful spot, and that depends on how good you see each guy. I can see why someone would want Warford. I liked him too. Outside of Cooper and Warmack he's the other guard I saw a bit of, and he has some potential. Looking at both on YouTube I see Frederick as being a little faster at getting to the next level while Warford seems to play stronger. With each pick it doesn't seem so bad on my limited viewings of the two. I can see a preference for Frederick's versatility though. Then again if Warford looks better in their eyes it's not a bad pick either. Both have pros to them, but Frederick has more to like on paper with the Wonderlic and playing two spots.

Now the Eifert thing to me isn't special because we're talking about getting a TE while Witten is still going strong. No matter who you pick they're going to be second to Witten, so it doesn't matter to me getting Eifert or Escobar since I wasn't really feeling them getting a TE. I see reasons to like Escobar, but right now I would have rather them go another direction. Eifert might be awesome, but neither guy is going to unseat Witten right now unless they're insanely good. With TE not being a big need, why spend your first pick on one when we're already thinking that they used too high of a pick on one? Some of us are mad about the 2nd rounder, so a first rounder doesn't make it any better considering the circumstances.

Floyd is a guy that I'm not high on, but that's only because I'm only seen a little bit of him playing. I wouldn't have gotten mad at all if they got him, but DT wasn't as big of a need as OL. The tricky part is putting Warford along with him. DT was more of a need in my eyes than the TE position, which I never thought was a need to begin with. I'd pick Floyd and Warford over Frederick and Escobar based on need.

Cyprien/Elam and the other two with Warford and Williams wouldn't have been bad at all if the safeties are pretty good. Here's where the issue lies though. The safety class was supposed to be deep, right? Well what about the center class? If safety is deep on their board then it doesn't seem so bad passing some guys up to get what you consider one awesome center out of a few decent ones. Center is a bigger need, and if there is one that stands leaps above the rest while you have about 6-8 safeties you'd want to pick then it's not so bad getting the center. How good is Wilcox vs. Cyprien or Elam? That depends, but you gotta throw in Frederick with that too. Both safety and OL were huge needs, and I can't blame them going with the one center they really wanted while passing on a couple of safeties. You can only get one pick out of them all, and either direction is fine with me right now since I can't tell the future. Now a few years from now that may change, but their logic isn't so bad in my eyes when you consider that they still got a safety with a decently high pick.
I guess for me, Eifert is FAR superior to Escobar while Fredrick and Warford were closely rated. Either of those guys would be an upgrade to the line but we could have gotten a much better player with our 1st round pick. Same goes with Safety, Cyprien or Elam are FAR superior to Wilcox and still would have gotten Fredrick or Warford at 47.
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Old 04-29-2013, 08:14 PM    (permalink
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I think you've talked yourself into loving the Fredrick pick and now that you've hyped him so much, you dont want to go back on it. I dont recall you ever talking about Fredrick as a 1st round option or even someone we should consisder pre draft. Im not positive where he was as far as your Center rankings but I know he wasnt #1. To say now that we drafted him, hes who you would have taken over all other options makes me think Hmmmm
I thought I just explained that. I admit that going into the draft that I didn't have Frederick as a 1st round option. No secrets there.

But I didn't do great homework on him either. ...and now that I have, I do love the pick.

That's what happens. The more you learn about the player, your ideas can change. I think that goes for everyone who follows the draft.

Take for instance... Kiper/McShay... these guys go all year tracking players for a living. Yet, they are just one man. Mostly on the outside, looking in on the entire process.

NFL teams have entire scouting departments. They have more resources and more information accummulated than Kiper and McShay do. Sure, they will try their hardest to talk to scouts to get inside info or they will try to connect the dots on their own, but still they are on the outside looking in. That is why McShay mocks Nassib to Buffalo at #8 (based off the fact that Buffalo hired Nassib's college coach), yet he goes in Round 4 to the Giants. That is why Mayock has Alvin Bailey on his famous "Best players available" ticker on ESPN, but the guys goes undrafted. Only to find out that NFL teams have info on Bailey about his personal life that Kiper never knew about. You have to take a grain of salt with whatever these guys say.

That's why draftnik grades and rankings are often inaccurate. They are for the purposes of entertainment only. Post draft grades... we all admit they carry little weight.

These guys that run draft websites have a lot less to go off of than NFL teams do. Does Mayock and Kiper go to all the Pro Days? Do they meet the players? Can the amount of interviews they do stack up to the amount of interviews that NFL teams do? Does Kiper talk to Head Coaches to find out about a player? And would he have the benefit of getting the "real" scoop like a former assistant Garrett would have talking to Saban? Does McShay run players through position drills like Dooley did with Terrance Williams?

It goes on and on... So when Mayock says he had a 3rd round grade on Frederick, you can't take that for Frederick's true worth. Mayock is the guy who put DJ Hayden as his #1 CB AFTER speaking to a scout who claimed Hayden would go high in the draft. It wasn't about Mayock's personal grade for Hayden that put Hayden that high. It was info he got that made him change his rankings. You see how that works? If Mayock knew the Cowboys had Frederick rated #22 on their board and would take him in the 1st, then he wouldn't have said that he had a 3rd round grade on him. All he does is follow the pulse of players the best he can, but he is not accurate with what he says all the time.
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Old 04-29-2013, 08:29 PM    (permalink
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Biggest wow factor guys imo are Keenan Allen and Cordarelle Patterson. Dark horse wow factor: Eddie Lacy

I'm a big fan of Allen.

We need OL though. Armstead, Watson would be good.... or my later round guy I like... Fragel. No Guards are worth it at 31.
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We may take Terron Armstead at 31.

OG is deep guys. DEEEP. Don't sweat.
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We didn't get enough back. Stupid trade.
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My Top 32 for the Dallas Cowboys

1. Jonathan Cooper, UNC
2. Chance Warmack, Alabama
3. Lane Johnson, Oklahoma
4. Luke Joeckel, Texas A&M
5. Eric Fisher, Central Michigan
6. Tavon Austin, West Virginia
7. Jarvis Jones, Georgia
8. Star Lotulelei, Utah
9. Xavier Rhodes, Florida St
10. Sheldon Richardson, Missouri
11. Barkevious Mingo, LSU
12. Dion Jordan, Oregon
13. Tyler Eifert, Notre Dame
14. Johnathan Cyprien, FIU
15. Sharrif Floyd, Florida
16. Datone Jones, UCLA
17. Bjoern Werner, FSU
18. Eric Reid, LSU
19. Kenny Vaccaro, Texas
20. Damontre Moore, Texas A&M
21. Tank Carradine, FSU
22. Keenan Allen, California
23. Cordarrelle Patterson, Tennessee
24. DeAndre Hopkins, Clemson
25. Ziggy Ansah, BYU
26. Terron Armstead, Arkansas Pine-Bluff
27. Sylvester Williams, UNC
28. Kevin Minter, LSU
29. Alec Ogletree, Georgia
30. Justin Pugh, Syracuse
31. Kyle Long, Oregon
32. DJ Fluker, Alabama
Just looking at things thats was being said during the draft, there was NO mention of Fredrick and wasnt even in your top 32 for OUR team much less the top 32 of the draft. Then saying OG depth was deep and we didnt get ANY! I just dont see how he went from a non option to a great pick, or at least to a pick you LOVE after we drafted him. And again, we got screwed in the trade. That has to factor in too doesnt it?
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Old 04-29-2013, 08:31 PM    (permalink
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I guess for me, Eifert is FAR superior to Escobar while Fredrick and Warford were closely rated. Either of those guys would be an upgrade to the line but we could have gotten a much better player with our 1st round pick. Same goes with Safety, Cyprien or Elam are FAR superior to Wilcox and still would have gotten Fredrick or Warford at 47.
Warford is not a Center prospect though. How can you compare him to Frederick? ...and really if you look at it, he's a much worse athlete than Frederick. You would think from the criticism Frederick gets about his mobility that Warford would come out ahead right? Well, not so.

Frederick 40: 5.58
Warford 40: 5.58

Frederick Vert: 28.5
Warford Vert: 22.5

Frederick Shuttle: 4.76
Warford Shuttle: 5.1

Also, I don't think you understand yet that Frederick being there at 47 is not a lock. Because you keep saying it like it's a fact. You can't give justification that no other OL was taken. Maybe teams thought that there wasn't another one left worth taking after he was off the board. But if he was on the board, maybe he goes shortly after. We don't know that. ...and the Cowboys certainly didn't know that. With hindsight, I bet teams wish they did things differently, but that's not how it works. Players get taken off their own merit and team needs.
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Old 04-29-2013, 08:36 PM    (permalink
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I thought I just explained that. I admit that going into the draft that I didn't have Frederick as a 1st round option. No secrets there.

But I didn't do great homework on him either. ...and now that I have, I do love the pick.

That's what happens. The more you learn about the player, your ideas can change. I think that goes for everyone who follows the draft.

Take for instance... Kiper/McShay... these guys go all year tracking players for a living. Yet, they are just one man. Mostly on the outside, looking in on the entire process.

NFL teams have entire scouting departments. They have more resources and more information accummulated than Kiper and McShay do. Sure, they will try their hardest to talk to scouts to get inside info or they will try to connect the dots on their own, but still they are on the outside looking in. That is why McShay mocks Nassib to Buffalo at #8 (based off the fact that Buffalo hired Nassib's college coach), yet he goes in Round 4 to the Giants. That is why Mayock has Alvin Bailey on his famous "Best players available" ticker on ESPN, but the guys goes undrafted. Only to find out that NFL teams have info on Bailey about his personal life that Kiper never knew about. You have to take a grain of salt with whatever these guys say.

That's why draftnik grades and rankings are often inaccurate. They are for the purposes of entertainment only. Post draft grades... we all admit they carry little weight.

These guys that run draft websites have a lot less to go off of than NFL teams do. Does Mayock and Kiper go to all the Pro Days? Do they meet the players? Can the amount of interviews they do stack up to the amount of interviews that NFL teams do? Does Kiper talk to Head Coaches to find out about a player? And would he have the benefit of getting the "real" scoop like a former assistant Garrett would have talking to Saban? Does McShay run players through position drills like Dooley did with Terrance Williams?

It goes on and on... So when Mayock says he had a 3rd round grade on Frederick, you can't take that for Frederick's true worth. Mayock is the guy who put DJ Hayden as his #1 CB AFTER speaking to a scout who claimed Hayden would go high in the draft. It wasn't about Mayock's personal grade for Hayden that put Hayden that high. It was info he got that made him change his rankings. You see how that works? If Mayock knew the Cowboys had Frederick rated #22 on their board and would take him in the 1st, then he wouldn't have said that he had a 3rd round grade on him. All he does is follow the pulse of players the best he can, but he is not accurate with what he says all the time.
No, I get that but lets just say that over the years when most of the talking heads say we reached for a player they are usually right. I cant give Jerry the benifit of the doubt. His track record is way to poor to trust he got this right, and I dont mean just on Fredrick I mean on all the guys we passed for fredrick as well. We'll see what happen, but right now I feel like we passed on better guys. Just my opinion
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Old 04-29-2013, 08:42 PM    (permalink
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Just looking at things thats was being said during the draft, there was NO mention of Fredrick and wasnt even in your top 32 for OUR team much less the top 32 of the draft. Then saying OG depth was deep and we didnt get ANY! I just dont see how he went from a non option to a great pick, or at least to a pick you LOVE after we drafted him. And again, we got screwed in the trade. That has to factor in too doesnt it?
Not backing off the trade value was a poor return. But at least I understand that they could only take their best offer.

Did you pick up the posts leading up to the draft where I was scared that we were taking Floyd or Sly? Cause I don't like them. Never really did.

Let me again explain this about Frederick and my rankings. Had I done as much research on him as the Dallas Cowboys did, I certainly would have felt differently about him, but I definitely don't have their resources or that kind of commitment to track players that closely. I wish! :)

That 32 was taken off my general feeling of the pulse of player rankings in combination with my own feelings about them with the limited information that I had.

Brings me to a good idea ... maybe we take prospects next year as a group look heavily into each one and build our own board! Sound like fun??? :)
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Old 04-29-2013, 08:42 PM    (permalink
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Warford is not a Center prospect though. How can you compare him to Frederick? ...and really if you look at it, he's a much worse athlete than Frederick. You would think from the criticism Frederick gets about his mobility that Warford would come out ahead right? Well, not so.

Frederick 40: 5.58
Warford 40: 5.58

Frederick Vert: 28.5
Warford Vert: 22.5

Frederick Shuttle: 4.76
Warford Shuttle: 5.1

Also, I don't think you understand yet that Frederick being there at 47 is not a lock. Because you keep saying it like it's a fact. You can't give justification that no other OL was taken. Maybe teams thought that there wasn't another one left worth taking after he was off the board. But if he was on the board, maybe he goes shortly after. We don't know that. ...and the Cowboys certainly didn't know that. With hindsight, I bet teams wish they did things differently, but that's not how it works. Players get taken off their own merit and team needs.
no Ive said that I believe he would have been there at 47 BUT if he wasnt we could get a similar graded player. Fredrick is an upgrade just like Worford would have been an upgrade. I would have been fine with either one in the 2nd round. If we would have taken Worford at 31, I would be just as pissed. IMO we could have gotten a STUD at 18 or even at 31 but we passed to fill a need.
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