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Old 05-16-2012, 12:07 PM    (permalink
K Train
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out of shape and cut up are completely different things, jared allen isnt a chiseled athlete, on the streets he looks like a tall doofy guy. doesnt stop him from being a monster on the field
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"He won't be able to just use his arm power to throw defenders around at the next level!"

The hell he won't, lol.
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Old 05-16-2012, 12:55 PM    (permalink
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out of shape and cut up are completely different things, jared allen isnt a chiseled athlete, on the streets he looks like a tall doofy guy. doesnt stop him from being a monster on the field

Jared Allen is still in good shape for a DE.


Courtney Upshaw right now is out of shape. When you compare what he looked like at Alabama's pro day and his physique at the combine, IMO Upshaw looks at least 10-15# heavier at the Ravens minicamp.
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Old 05-16-2012, 12:58 PM    (permalink
K Train
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i meant allen isnt out of shape, despite him not being a cut up muscular guy
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"He won't be able to just use his arm power to throw defenders around at the next level!"

The hell he won't, lol.
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Old 05-16-2012, 01:38 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by tmljeh19 View Post
Who gives a flying **** what Butkus looked like 40-50 years ago. The game is so much different now that your argument is asinine. Today's game is all about mesurables and body control. There are VERY few out of shape players who succeed in this game compared to physical freaks who wash out.
Dick Butkus would still be a pro bowler today. It's not so different that a guy with the appropriate size and out-of-this-world IQ/instincts/meanness/motor couldn't tear it up. There's a world of difference between "out of shape" and "not cut like a man-on-man porn star."

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Old 05-16-2012, 02:48 PM    (permalink
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Taylor Thompson- our 6-6 260 pound converted DE to TE with the 4.59 speedz ... was the star of the rookie camp.





Mike Martin- The swoll DT outta Michigan











Markelle Martin-





Kendall Wright





DaJohn Harris



Zach Brown





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Old 05-16-2012, 02:58 PM    (permalink
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The Titans rookie class is so dirty!
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Old 05-16-2012, 04:33 PM    (permalink
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I've said it before and I'll say it again...Mike Martin's legs are just ridiculous. Tree trunks.

If I keep this up, I'm going to sound like Rutgers fans talking about Raymell's thighs.
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Old 05-17-2012, 08:54 AM    (permalink
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Dick Butkus would still be a pro bowler today. It's not so different that a guy with the appropriate size and out-of-this-world IQ/instincts/meanness/motor couldn't tear it up. There's a world of difference between "out of shape" and "not cut like a man-on-man porn star."
If you think Dick Butkus would walk into the NFL in today's game looking like he did back then you are nuts. You could get away with it back then. Today you can't. Again I'm not talking about him I'm talking about Upshaw. It's a crime to compare to two. If you look at him from his pro day until now he looks heavier. Not a good heavy either. He looks less defined and his stomach has more of a gut then it did before. Coming from a rookie who is now going to be forced into a prime role due to injury it isn't a good sign.
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Old 05-17-2012, 10:43 AM    (permalink
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Courtney Upshaw right now is out of shape. When you compare what he looked like at Alabama's pro day and his physique at the combine, IMO Upshaw looks at least 10-15# heavier at the Ravens minicamp.
He was 279 at Bama's pro day. I doubt he weighs any more than that now let alone 10-15lbs more.
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Old 05-17-2012, 11:32 AM    (permalink
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He was 279 at Bama's pro day. I doubt he weighs any more than that now let alone 10-15lbs more.
I dunno but he looks heavier to me than he did at Alabama's pro day.

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Old 05-17-2012, 11:50 AM    (permalink
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I've said it before and I'll say it again...Mike Martin's legs are just ridiculous. Tree trunks.

If I keep this up, I'm going to sound like Rutgers fans talking about Raymell's thighs.
Not that ithis adds anything to any conversation in here, but I'd bet my legs aren't much smaller than his, he's got me beat by a long shot in everything else though, all while being a good 4 or 5 inches taller than me too.
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Old 05-17-2012, 12:08 PM    (permalink
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Never said I wanted a body builder. Take London Fletcher for example. He isn't chiseled but he isn't soft. He is just a solid spark plug kinda guy. That's what I meant. Upshaw has a gut. Look at the pics it's dead obvious.
Fletcher has a little bit of a gut too. Again, having a gut doesn't mean you can't be a good player in the NFL. And didn't someone just post a photo of Maybin and his six pack abs? Please.

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You can't compare generations. Jack Lambert was 6'4" 220.

My point is that if you look at the long list of currently great LBs, few of them could be described as having a soft physique. This isn't rationale for Upshaw having less of a chance to succeed. It's simply recognizing that his physique is the exception.
So you're saying that since Upshaw has a gut, his chances of being a good NFL linebacker are going to be more difficult? Because that is what this entire argument has been about with the other poster being put off because Upshaw doesn't have a ripped six pack, which for some reason in his book = soft. But let's ignore everything else that made him a high value pick.

And I don't see how you can't compare generations. You're saying Singletary wouldn't be a great linebacker in today's NFL?
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Old 05-17-2012, 12:18 PM    (permalink
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Upshaw has great intangibles, but at a weight of 270#+, he already had marginal athleticism.

It's about functionality, and Upshaw IMO is a much more dynamic and disruptive player at a lighter weight. The Ravens brought this kid in to play LB and he still looks like a strongside 43 DE.
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Old 05-17-2012, 12:30 PM    (permalink
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Upshaw has great intangibles, but at a weight of 270#+, he already had marginal athleticism.

It's about functionality, and Upshaw IMO is a much more dynamic and disruptive player at a lighter weight. The Ravens brought this kid in to play LB and he still looks like a strongside 43 DE.
We'll see. Remember Levon Kirkland? That guy weighed more towards 300 pounds, but was pretty fast for his size. He didn't have a rock solid physique and definitely had a gut. But he was really quick, and definitely not soft. My point is not to judge a book by it's cover. Especially in the NFL. Everyone should know this by now.
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Old 05-17-2012, 12:38 PM    (permalink
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Tony Mandarich was so athletic...I agree with Ness don't judge the book by his cover. Upshaw will prove all his doubters wrong.
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Old 05-17-2012, 12:51 PM    (permalink
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We'll see. Remember Levon Kirkland? That guy weighed more towards 300 pounds, but was pretty fast for his size. He didn't have a rock solid physique and definitely had a gut. But he was really quick, and definitely not soft. My point is not to judge a book by it's cover. Especially in the NFL. Everyone should know this by now.
Kirkland was an ILB who was effective only between the tackles who grew to his abnormal size towards the end of his career. Yes he was a 275# Mike for much his career, but there's a different level of athleticism needed to play OLB.

Lamar Woodley is a better comparison IMO, a soft body, chubby OLB who's still a pro bowl caliber talent.

Maybe Upshaw is that type of athlete. I have no clue.
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Old 05-17-2012, 12:58 PM    (permalink
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woodley is a great comparison. weve seen woodley around 260 and probably upwards of 280. he continues to get it done on the field though, despite not being overly fast or athletic hes got a mean bull rush and unreal ability to close in
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"He won't be able to just use his arm power to throw defenders around at the next level!"

The hell he won't, lol.
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Old 05-17-2012, 04:49 PM    (permalink
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I think Ushpaw ceiling is woodley but floor is Jarret Johnson with a little better pass rushing
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Old 05-17-2012, 05:20 PM    (permalink
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Old 05-17-2012, 05:38 PM    (permalink
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Old 05-17-2012, 05:46 PM    (permalink
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Kirkland was an ILB who was effective only between the tackles who grew to his abnormal size towards the end of his career. Yes he was a 275# Mike for much his career, but there's a different level of athleticism needed to play OLB.

Lamar Woodley is a better comparison IMO, a soft body, chubby OLB who's still a pro bowl caliber talent.

Maybe Upshaw is that type of athlete. I have no clue.
If I remember correctly they would still move Kirkland around a lot. Regardless, for his size he had an uncanny quickness.

But really, this entire argument that has since sparked is due to one person's notion that not having a six pack = soft, which quite frankly I find ridiculous.
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Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.
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Old 05-18-2012, 12:58 AM    (permalink
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So you're saying that since Upshaw has a gut, his chances of being a good NFL linebacker are going to be more difficult?
The answer to your question was in my post that you quoted.
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My point is that if you look at the long list of currently great LBs, few of them could be described as having a soft physique. This isn't rationale for Upshaw having less of a chance to succeed. It's simply recognizing that his physique is the exception.
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And I don't see how you can't compare generations. You're saying Singletary wouldn't be a great linebacker in today's NFL?
Because physical fitness and supplements have changed by near infinite measures in the last 20-30 years. Again, NOT ONCE have I said there is a direct correlation between physiology and performance. I merely recognize that the "soft" athlete, outside of interior linemen, have become rarer and rarer.
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Old 05-20-2012, 12:43 AM    (permalink
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Old 05-21-2012, 02:23 AM    (permalink
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The answer to your question was in my post that you quoted.
So we've decided then that Upshaw, because he has a gut, is beyond a shadow of a doubt, "soft"?

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Because physical fitness and supplements have changed by near infinite measures in the last 20-30 years. Again, NOT ONCE have I said there is a direct correlation between physiology and performance. I merely recognize that the "soft" athlete, outside of interior linemen, have become rarer and rarer.
I'm asking you though, if the Singletary we saw in 1985, was here today, in the same way, would be successful? A simple yes or no will suffice.
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Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.

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Old 05-21-2012, 10:22 AM    (permalink
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So we've decided then that Upshaw, because he has a gut, is beyond a shadow of a doubt, "soft"?
I said soft physique. So, yes. A gut is absolutely beyond a shadow of a doubt a soft physique.


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I'm asking you though, if the Singletary we saw in 1985, was here today, in the same way, would be successful? A simple yes or no will suffice.
No way to answer. He could be good. He could be bad. But if he had a gut, I'd say he has a soft physique and would be the exception.

If you asked "could" he be successful the answer is yes. "Would" is an impossible to predict concept.
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