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Old 05-26-2012, 12:33 PM    (permalink
Notredameleo
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Originally Posted by Bixby View Post
No way, Avril is overrated. Yeah he's quick but his defensive tackles are getting doubled every play. He's out there on an island winning one on one match-ups. He's not even close to as good as the top tier ends who can take over games by themselves (Allen, Cole, JPP, Peppers) IMO. Good player but not has good as his stats indicate IMO.
I agree completely, he is overrated, but I was wondering aloud if he was overrated by other players as well. He's asking for 11 million a year in negotiations. No thanks. Willie Young can step in and make almost as much of an impact immediately.
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Old 05-31-2012, 08:13 PM    (permalink
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Peyton Manning came in at #50 today. That is a joke, right? The guy didn't play a single game how were they even allowed to vote for him? And he comes in at 50?!?!?!
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Old 05-31-2012, 09:17 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by OSUGiants17 View Post
Peyton Manning came in at #50 today. That is a joke, right? The guy didn't play a single game how were they even allowed to vote for him? And he comes in at 50?!?!?!
It was Wednesday but yeah. I think you should still be able to vote with him, considering it's best player going into the next season (I think?).
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Old 05-31-2012, 09:17 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by OSUGiants17 View Post
Peyton Manning came in at #50 today. That is a joke, right? The guy didn't play a single game how were they even allowed to vote for him? And he comes in at 50?!?!?!
They're projecting the 2012 season, not analyzing the 2011 season.
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Old 05-31-2012, 10:47 PM    (permalink
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I was hoping there would be another Chief on this list but now I'm getting worried. The only one who can come on the list now is Tamba.. and if he does it'll be the next episode.

If he doesn't I'll have to be happy that my boy DJ made it.
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Old 06-01-2012, 04:50 AM    (permalink
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Tom Brady, Wes Welker, and Rob Gronkowski should be locks to show up eventually. Brian Waters is also deserving of a spot. Aaron Hernandez, Andre Carter, and Jerod Mayo may have had a chance earlier in the top 100.
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Old 06-01-2012, 04:59 AM    (permalink
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I didn't think Vernon Davis would make it, but I'm glad he did.
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Old 06-01-2012, 07:04 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by BigBanger View Post
Joe Flacco at #74 and Tony Romo at #91. Flip flop these two players and put Romo in Baltimore and Flacco in Dallas. If you think for a second that Flacco would look half as good as Romo has while in Dallas, then you are out of your mind. Joe Flacco ******* sucks. He holds the Ravens back on a yearly basis. To this day, he has done nothing to be considered a Top 10 QB in the NFL. He's rode the coat tails of a disgustingly vaunted defense that probably holds 4 future Hall of Fame players on it. He's also had the luxury of a really good - to well above average offensive line, and a RB that can pound the rock and catch passes out of the backfield. He's had everything at his disposal. He should have been playing in the last two Super Bowls. His defense and offensive lines were that good. The only reason why the Ravens haven’t been in the Super Bowl: Joe Flacco.
I don't have a lot of nice things to say about Flacco, but let me start by saying that Flacco absolutely is not what held us back this year.

He did everything that we needed him to and we came down to two bad plays in a row from going to the superbowl (neither caused by him).

We don't need him to be a top 10 QB. We need him to be a guy who can move the chains on occasion when the running game doesn't get it done and have a big enough arm to keep the defense from stacking the box. He has done that.

Furthermore, I understand the Romo being underrated argument (don't necessarily agree with it, but I understand it) However, nothing Romo did THIS YEAR (after all this is a list of 2011 play) would lead me to believe he deserves to be higher than he is.

He threw for a lot of yards but did so when he was down a lot.

He has great games like he did against San Fran, and then he has games like he did against the Jets.

The same could be said for Flacco, has games like he did against the Steelers, then games like he had against the Jags.

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The Ravens bring him even more weapons over the past two years by going out of their way to bring in WRs (Boldin, Evens, Smith) and TEs (Dickson, Pitta) to surround him with as much talent as humanly possible, and he's still a one-and-done playoff QB.
Let's not be silly and act like any of the Ravens receiving options come close to a line up of Dez, Witten, Robinson and Austin; nor is it anywhere close to as much talent as humanly possible.

His OL has arguably been better than Romo's but it's also been quite overrated, specifically last year. Birk is/has been past his prime, McKinnie is nothing special and Oher has taken steps backwards.

The guards are/were the strongpoint but even they had kind of a let down in the Pats game.

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Flacco plays a good defense in last years playoffs and they win because they went up against a rookie QB (Texans). Even though he plays like dogshit, they still win. It’s the luxury of having a great defense to hold you up and an offensive line / running game you can rely on when completing 14 of 27 passes. Then he plays a historically bad pass defense (Patriots) and they lose because he can't put up more than 20 measly points against a defense that gave up the most pass yards in NFL history.
The same D that gave up 132 yards rushing that game? Flacco was arguably playing against the toughest D in the playoffs and still threw for almost 200 yards with 2 TDs.

I don't understand where you are getting that the running game helped him out this game. Rice averaged 2.9 ypc, only gaining 60 yards on 21 carries.

Again, the OL was also giving up pressure all game.

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Yet people will say, "He played well against the Patriots in the playoffs. It wasn‘t his fault they lost." Everybody played well against the Patriots last year. Every QB did. He played mediocre football against them. For once, beat a team, beat a QB that you aren’t favored to beat. Just do it once. Outplay someone that‘s any good… just one time.
Again, we don't need him to be Tom Brady. Indeed, it wasn't his fault we lost, I'm not sure if your trying to imply that it is his fault we lost but you'd have a tough time making an argument that it was his fault as he put us in the best position he could to give us the win.

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The Patriots defense sucked and they had no business winning that game. But the Patriots QB is so infinitely better than the Ravens QB, that it allowed them to win.
Yea Tom Brady had a great game

Did you watch this game at all? You are aware that Brady had arguably his worst playoff game ever?

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For the life of me, I don't understand how anyone can like Joe Flacco.
I don't overly like him, I don't think he deserves the money we are going to be giving him. However, I understand that he does what we need him to do.

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To even like him.
You don't have to be high on him, but it seems as though your unreasonably low on him

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And you had a 4th QT lead? And you manage to score ZERO points in the 4th QT? Because you decide it's a good time to throw the ball directly to Brandon Spikes.
To be honest, I don't blame anyone for doubting Spikes' ability to react to the play. I'd be targeting him on slant plays too.

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Yet people will try to blame Lee Evens or a missed FG when they only had the opportunity to get the ball back because of Ed Reed and their defense. Flacco has pissed away more opportunities in his first 4 years in the NFL than Tony Romo may ever get in his entire career.
How did Flacco piss the win away? The D let the go ahead score in. Then Flacco leads us down the field from our own 21 yard line in the last 2 minutes of the game, makes a perfect throw to the endzone which is dropped by Evans. So yea, I do blame Evans. Then Cundiff misses the FG for the tie, so yea, I do blame Cundiff.

Really don't see how you can put that one on Flacco.

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Flacco is nothing but a lot of potential that can’t seem to solidify himself amongst the 3rd tier QBs.
He certainly has potential which he hasn't reached but I don't think you can fault his play this year. Last year he took a big step forward.
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Old 06-01-2012, 09:37 AM    (permalink
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this is really just a strange list of randomness, theres no logic in the order. you cant make a list like this of all teams and all positions without pissing everyone off
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"He won't be able to just use his arm power to throw defenders around at the next level!"

The hell he won't, lol.
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Old 06-01-2012, 10:25 AM    (permalink
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I was hoping there would be another Chief on this list but now I'm getting worried. The only one who can come on the list now is Tamba.. and if he does it'll be the next episode.

If he doesn't I'll have to be happy that my boy DJ made it.
Actually, I'm pretty happy that there is only one Chief on the list so far. Go ahead, give them no respect. I like a team with a chip on its shoulder.
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Old 06-01-2012, 10:48 AM    (permalink
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I didn't think Vernon Davis would make it, but I'm glad he did.
I knew he'd make it after his performance in the post season
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Old 06-01-2012, 12:45 PM    (permalink
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I knew he'd make it after his performance in the post season
Yeah I wasn't sure if that would be enough though.
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Old 06-01-2012, 01:41 PM    (permalink
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I knew he'd make it after his performance in the post season
I thought it was voted on before the playoffs started
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Old 06-02-2012, 01:35 AM    (permalink
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Peyton Manning came in at #50 today. That is a joke, right? The guy didn't play a single game how were they even allowed to vote for him? And he comes in at 50?!?!?!
He either has to be off the list or top 10. I don't get how he's at #50. Either he's healed enough to be effective or he's not; there isn't a lot of middle ground.
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Old 06-02-2012, 02:02 AM    (permalink
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this is really just a strange list of randomness, theres no logic in the order. you cant make a list like this of all teams and all positions without pissing everyone off
I think you could do it, it would just take a lot of cooperation amongst fans and some reasoned debate. Some fans (slight homers) might split hairs over some placements but I think for the most part we could get it right.
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Old 06-02-2012, 09:34 AM    (permalink
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Either he's healed enough to be effective or he's not; there isn't a lot of middle ground.
Whether he's healed or not, he's a 36 year old QB. It's quite possible he's regressed quite a bit.

And I imagine lots of players did leave him off their list. These lists will essentially be an average of their rankings.
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Old 06-02-2012, 10:33 AM    (permalink
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Whether he's healed or not, he's a 36 year old QB. It's quite possible he's regressed quite a bit.

And I imagine lots of players did leave him off their list. These lists will essentially be an average of their rankings.
That's an important point. Most starting Quarterbacks retire at or before the age of 38. People forget that, because they just saw the most durable player in NFL history blow right past that barrier.

So at 36 and coming off of a lost season due to injury, I think it's safe to speculate that Peyton Manning is in the twilight of his career.

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Old 06-02-2012, 01:28 PM    (permalink
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Vonta Leach is better and more productive than Tony Romo, Hakeem Nicks, Vince Wilfork, Nnamdi Asomugha, Lance Briggs, LaMarr Woodley, Von Miller, Greg Jennings, Trent Cole, Brian Cushing and Peyton Manning.
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Old 06-06-2012, 10:34 PM    (permalink
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it amazes me how Hakeem Nicks is around 60 spaces higher on the list than Victor Cruz.... They're different, but Nicks got shafted.

Edit: this list isnt very accurate
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Old 06-06-2012, 10:40 PM    (permalink
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The list is bad.
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Old 06-06-2012, 10:41 PM    (permalink
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Update it....
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Old 06-06-2012, 10:49 PM    (permalink
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Update it....
The list is on NFL.com.
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Old 06-06-2012, 11:23 PM    (permalink
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40. Cam Newton
39. Victor Cruz
38. Ndamukong Suh
37. Steven Jackson
36. Charles Woodson
35. Steve Smith
34. Tamba Hali
33. Matt Forte
32. Jahri Evans
31. Eli Manning
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Old 06-07-2012, 12:03 AM    (permalink
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Why is Suh so high...
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Old 06-07-2012, 12:25 AM    (permalink
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I think everybody needs to quit arguing about the order or the criteria for voting and simply realize that this is the list that popped out when the players were polled and asked who the best players in the NFL are. It's nothing more and nothing less than that. It means Vontae Leach is more respected among players than Tony Romo. It means opposing players think Victor Cruz is scarier than Hakeem. It really doesn't need to turn into this "Is So-and-So REAALLLY better than this other guy?" That's just what NFL Network is doing to create programming.
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