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Old 05-08-2012, 03:03 AM    (permalink
D-Unit
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Originally Posted by Brent View Post
LE - Ahmad Brooks
DT - Ray McDonald
DT - Justin Smith
RE - Aldon Smith
LB - NaVorro Bowman
LB - Patrick Willis
LCB - Carlos Rogers
NKB - Chris Culliver
RCB - Tarell Brown
FS - Dashon Goldson
SS - Donte Whitner
Did the Niners do anything in the offseason to add to that mix?
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Old 05-08-2012, 03:09 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Don Vito View Post
If I had my guess...

LE: Hightower/Ninkovich
DT: Fanene
DT: Wilfork
RE: C. Jones/T. Scott
LB: Mayo
LB: Fletcher
CB: McCourty
CB: Arrington
CB: Dowling
S: Chung
S: Gregory

I'd also look for Jake Bequette to get some looks early. We've lined up in so many different types of fronts, especially on passing downs, that it is hard to project but my best guess would be some formation of that personnel.
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Originally Posted by Matthew Jones View Post
I'm going to guess:

LE: Jonathan Fanene
UT: Myron Pryor
NT: Vince Wilfork
RE: Chandler Jones
WB: Jerod Mayo
SB: Dont'a Hightower
LCB: Devin McCourty
FS: Steve Gregory
SS: Patrick Chung
NCB: Kyle Arrington
RCB: Ras-I Dowling
Interesting that you guys have Hightower lined up differently. What's the logic between the 2 of you on how he will be used? Also, would Fanene really be used in the nickel with Wilfork? I could see one or the other but both seem like a not so good idea.
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Old 05-08-2012, 03:12 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Mufasa View Post
How's that surprising? You never really want to run a three safety set unless you're going prevent against a Hail Mary. Ideally you have three good corners you can throw out there. Not many teams actually have three good corners, so if your backup safety is that much better than your nickel corner it's worth a shot. It's something you want to avoid if possible though.
Generally speaking safeties are better in zone coverage don't see many/any teams going cover 0 on 3rd & 15
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Old 05-08-2012, 03:12 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Sportsfan486 View Post
The Packers play mostly Nickel, likely upwards of 80% of Defensive snaps this upcoming season, with a 2-4-5 alignment loosely based on a 3-4.

We usually line our DTs up as 2 or 3 techniques with the focus being on penetrating the backfield. Then we bring additional pressure mainly from the OLBs but also plenty of blitzes from one of the ILBs and the slot corner, who typically is more of a freelancing safety/corner/linebacker hybrid.

We focused on improving the talent to run this scheme in the draft and our likely depth chart looks like this.

LOLB: Nick Perry
DT: Jerel Worthy
DT:B.J Raji
ROLB: Clay Matthews
ILB: D.J. Smith
ILB: Desmond Bishop
CB: Sam Shields
CB: Tramon Williams
Slot CB: Casey Heyward
SS: Charles Woodson
FS: Morgan Burnett

The question marks on here would be one of the ILBs (position battle between A.J. Hawk/D.J. Smith and Terrell Manning) and whether we keep Woodson as our slot corner or move him to safety and plug in one of Casey Heyward/Devon House/Jarrett Bush. The rest of the depth chart is basically set, barring a huge disappointment by Worthy or Shields in the preseason.
Packers definitely appear to have attempted to upgrade their nickel D. I see 3 new faces in there. All good players.
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Old 05-08-2012, 03:14 AM    (permalink
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What is your preference? Having 4 DL who can all rush the passer or having a big NT who will eat up blocks and open for others?
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Old 05-08-2012, 05:30 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by D-Unit View Post
Did the Niners do anything in the offseason to add to that mix?
Re-signed Carlos Rogers? Trenton Robinson is probably going to end up as the top back-up safety, which Reggie Smith was last year. They drafted Darius Fleming and Cam Johnson for depth, so I imagine that Parys Haralson could be cut closer to the season starting.

Really not much to improve upon, other than the secondary's play. I think as a whole, the defense will be better, but not necessarily put up the same numbers.
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Old 05-08-2012, 06:09 AM    (permalink
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The Pats tend to use multiple fronts in nickle situations and use their players in different ways as well. A few examples I can imagine

4-2-5;

RE: Andre Carter (Jones if Carter doesn't re-sign)
DT: Jonathan Fanene
DT: Vince Wilfork
LE: Chandler Jones (Trevor Scott if Carter doesn't re-sign)

LB: Dont'a Highotwer
LB: Jerod Mayo

CB: Devin McCourty
CB: Kyle Arrington
S: Pat Chung
S: Steve Gregory
CB: Ras-I Dowling

3-3-5;

RE: Chandler Jones
NT: Vince Wilfork
LE: Jonathan Fanene

LB: Dont'a Hightower
LB: Dane Fletcher
LB: Jerod Mayo

CB: Kyle Arrington
S: Devin McCourty
S: Pat Chung
S: Steve Gregory
CB: Ras-I Dowling

A few things to note;

LB Brandon Spikes isn't likely to play in nickle situations with the addition of Dont'a Hightower. Hightower, while not great in coverage, is better than Spikes and also offers more as an outside pass rusher.

BB has stated he views Chandler Jones as a perimeter player on defense. Now I don't see how Jones will play LB in 3-3-5 systems because he doesn't have the hip flexibility to stay consistently in coverage. I think he is likely to line up wide as a RE in a 3 man front.

The defensive backfield is in flux at the moment. It was rumoured that Devin McCourty would make the permanent move to S. However I think that is premature and with the recent additions at the position it is looking like BB will keep him at CB for now, however he is likely to move inside in big nickle situations.

Alfonzo Dennard is someone who may also see some playing time in the slot or at safety.

Rob Ninkovich seems like the odd man out with the Hightower pick but should still see plenty of the field.

Guys like Trevor Scott, Jake Bequette and Jermaine Cunningham (hopefully) should also rotate in with some of the pass rushers.
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Old 05-08-2012, 07:09 AM    (permalink
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DE Elvis Dumervil
DT Robert Ayers
DT Derek Wolfe
DE Von Miller
LB DJ Williams
LB Wesley Woodyard
CB Champ Bailey
NCB Chris Harris
FS Mike Adams
SS Quinton Carter
CB Tracy Porter


Scary pass rush but a pretty average secondary outside of the Champ.
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Old 05-08-2012, 08:48 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by D-Unit View Post
Packers definitely appear to have attempted to upgrade their nickel D. I see 3 new faces in there. All good players.
Our pass defense was ever so weak last year so there needed to be some changes. We could see Woodson in that slot role with McMillian at S depending on how he comes out of OTAs and training camp obviously. There is going to be a lot more versatility with this defense with Perry opening up a lot more for Matthews opposite of him. Its nice to finally have two capable passrushers (potentially, with Perry only being a rookie) since Kampman and KGB, if anyone remembers those days. We're going to see a much better D from GB this year, wishful thinking has my mind on the Top 5 defense from two years ago.
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Old 05-08-2012, 09:18 AM    (permalink
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What is your preference? Having 4 DL who can all rush the passer or having a big NT who will eat up blocks and open for others?
I'll see your 4 D-linemen & raise you one more rush backer/d-lineman on obvious 3rd & long downs, lol. I'm a big fan of rushing a minimum of 5 on those 3rd & very longs & using the 5 DBs only if you have a superior cover corner or FS to allow the nickel.

Kind of the old Buddy Ryan outnumber them at the weak protection point technique as modified by his son Rob moving our guy Ware around to whichever side the TE isn't, or their weakest blocker to avoid dbl-teaming him. I'm seeing more & more of this movement of the designated edge rusher as that position has become higher in recent drafts & more specialized.

If you're say, the 9ers & you have 2 good ILBs in Bowman & Willis you can play the modified 5-2-4. The really good quick release QBs like Eli & Brady get rid of it when they see 5 guys closing in, even on a 3-step drop, but if those 2 ILBs are quick enough & can range sideline to sideline they can keep the short zone or checkdown RB pass from getting to the marker.
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Old 05-08-2012, 09:20 AM    (permalink
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I personally think we will see Dane Fletcher in on a lot of passing downs. Mayo is our strongest linebacker in coverage but Fletcher has the ability to make an impact there. Hightower is better suited than Spikes to play that nickle linebacker spot, but I think Fletcher would get some looks at that spot. Hightower could rush on those downs, not neccesarily with his hand in the ground but I think he could be an outside or rush guy on passing downs.

I would think Fanene would be playing inside in nickle type packages. We have a lot of players who could carve out different roles, but as Antoin was getting at it will be a lot clearer once Andre Carter's fate is decided. If he could come back and be the player he was last year that would be enormous for this team.
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Old 05-08-2012, 09:32 AM    (permalink
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i literally have no idea how they plan on doing dline and LB combos for nickel packages, so many combos in our defense it is so opponent specific.

i think curtis brown replaces *** as the NB and cortez allen gets a lot of work over clark at FS in nickel defenses
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Old 05-08-2012, 10:43 AM    (permalink
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And that's just our base nickel with no Osi, no Kiwi and no Austin on the field.



The giants did with Grant and TT will likely play a lot of safety when we go into the nickel this year
I would imagine that this would be our obvious passrushing downs nickel (3 WR set):

DE:Osi Umenyiora
DE:Justin Tuck
DT:Chris Canty/Marvin Austin/Shaun Rogers
DE:Jason Pierre Paul
DE/Rushbacker:Kiwanuka

LB:Michael Boley

CB:Corey Webster
CB: Prince Amukamara
CB/FS/Buffalo LB: Terrell Thomas
FS: Kenny Phillips
SS/Slot:Antrel Rolle
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Old 05-08-2012, 10:49 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Ravens1991 View Post
DE-Suggs(I know he is hurt but if he was healthy)
DT-Ngata
DT-Pernell McPhee(This guy is a complete beast watch out for him in the future.)
DE-Paul kruger
LB-Jameel McClain
LB-Ray Lewis
CB-Lardarius Webb
CB-Jimmy Smith
CB-Cary Williams
FS-Ed Reed
SS-Bernard Pollard


That secondary is sick. The pass rush should be pretty good too if Suggs is healthy the latter part of the season. But man our LBs will be hurt in coverage.
Pretty much this. With Suggs being hurt I would shift Kruger over to his spot and replace him with Upshaw. Technically there's probably going to be a "competition" for the other OLB spot (or DE in this case) but I would be very surprised if Upshaw didn't win it. I'm fairly confident he would have started if Suggs was healthy. Ayanbadejo is the Ravens nickel LB, he replaces McClain.
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Old 05-08-2012, 11:04 AM    (permalink
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RE Andre Branch
NT Terrance Knighton
UT Tyson Alualu
LE Jeremy Mincey
MLB Paul Posluszny
SLB Daryl Smith
RCB Rashean Mathis
NCB Aaron Ross
FS Dwight Lowery
SS Dawan Landry
LCB Derek Cox

So Clint Session comes out. Mathis and Ross are just guesses because they'll battle for starting outside position in training camp with the loser playing inside. Daryl Smith is the key. Best player on our defense and he's a really good pass rusher so they usually bring him with a blitz on 3rd down.
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Old 05-08-2012, 12:47 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Bixby View Post
RE - Cole
NT - Jenkins
UT - Cox
RE - Babin
LB - Brian Rolle
LB - Casey Matthews
CB - Nnamdi Asomugha
CB - Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie
CB - Joselio Hanson / Brandon Boykin
FS - Nate Allen
SS - Kurt Coleman / Jaiquawn Jarrett
The eagles view Demeco Ryans as a 3 down LB, so my guess is he will stay in during nickel. Also, I'm hoping Mychal Kendricks can be the other guy. Everything else looks good.
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Old 05-08-2012, 12:54 PM    (permalink
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The eagles view Demeco Ryans as a 3 down LB, so my guess is he will stay in during nickel. Also, I'm hoping Mychal Kendricks can be the other guy. Everything else looks good.
Kendricks doesn't quite have the chops in coverage yet for me to say he should be in for Nickel packages. I love the kid and I'm real excited he's here, but he needs some experience in the NFL in coverage. It wasn't the best part of his game in college. But I guess the only way you get experience is by playing, lol, so I could handle it. I also wouldn't be surprised to see Chaney in there for Nickel, as coverage is a stronger suit of his than it is Matthews'.
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Old 05-08-2012, 01:03 PM    (permalink
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DE - Matt Shaughnessy
DT - Tommy Kelly
DT - Richard Semour
DE - Desmond Bryant
LB - Rolando McClain
LB - Miles Burris
CB - Ron Bartell
CB - Shawntae Spencer
CB - DeMarcus Van Dyke
FS - Michael Huff
SS - Tyvon Branch



Before Oakland would bring in M.Mitchell and play him at the second LB spot and move Michael Huff to the 3rd CB. Not sure if they will move Huff around like that anymore.

A lot of Oakland fans might have Curry in there instead of Burris but I think Oakland is gonna do what ever they need to get him on the field.
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Old 05-08-2012, 04:02 PM    (permalink
VAfy-ya
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Originally Posted by Brent View Post
LE - Ahmad Brooks
DT - Ray McDonald
DT - Justin Smith
RE - Aldon Smith
LB - NaVorro Bowman
LB - Patrick Willis
LCB - Carlos Rogers
NKB - Chris Culliver
RCB - Tarell Brown
FS - Dashon Goldson
SS - Donte Whitner
Rogers is over the slot in our nickel. Cully is on the outside.
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Old 05-08-2012, 05:32 PM    (permalink
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Rogers is over the slot in our nickel. Cully is on the outside.
My mistake. Admittedly I am a bit hazy on the details; typically, last season, I couldn't take my eyes off of The Smiths when the Niners were on D.
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Old 05-08-2012, 05:46 PM    (permalink
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DE - Matt Shaughnessy
DT - Tommy Kelly
DT - Richard Semour
DE - Desmond Bryant
LB - Rolando McClain
LB - Miles Burris
CB - Ron Bartell
CB - Shawntae Spencer
CB - DeMarcus Van Dyke
FS - Michael Huff
SS - Tyvon Branch



Before Oakland would bring in M.Mitchell and play him at the second LB spot and move Michael Huff to the 3rd CB. Not sure if they will move Huff around like that anymore.

A lot of Oakland fans might have Curry in there instead of Burris but I think Oakland is gonna do what ever they need to get him on the field.
No Lamarr Houston?
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Old 05-08-2012, 06:37 PM    (permalink
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Did the Niners do anything in the offseason to add to that mix?
What might you like to see them add? There's alot of really young depth that never sees the field.
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Old 05-08-2012, 11:54 PM    (permalink
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I hope not...

And here's the best:

DE: Chris Clemons
DT: Jason Jones
DT: Brandon Mebane
DE: Bruce Irvin
LB: LeRoy Hill/Barrett Ruud/Bobby Wagner
LB: K.J. Wright
CB: Richard Sherman
CB: Brandon Browner
NB: Marcus Trufant
FS: Earl Thomas
SS: Kam Chancellor
Im not sure that Trufant will be in there over Thurmond. And I wouldn't be shocked to see Korey Toomer see time in the nickel defense.
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Old 05-09-2012, 12:18 AM    (permalink
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Kendricks doesn't quite have the chops in coverage yet for me to say he should be in for Nickel packages. I love the kid and I'm real excited he's here, but he needs some experience in the NFL in coverage. It wasn't the best part of his game in college. But I guess the only way you get experience is by playing, lol, so I could handle it. I also wouldn't be surprised to see Chaney in there for Nickel, as coverage is a stronger suit of his than it is Matthews'.
Eh. Jamar Chaney was pretty awful all around last year. He's super stiff and doesn't change directions well. He actually lost his spot in the nickel defense late in the year to Casey Matthews whose coverage skills are an asset. With the additions of Kendricks and Ryans along with the presence of Rolle, Clayton, Jordan and Matthews I wouldn't be surprised if Chaney didn't see any snaps on obvious passing downs. As a matter of fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Chaney didn't have a roster spot next year, he was that bad. And Ryans and Kendricks kind of took his job(s).

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Old 05-09-2012, 02:38 AM    (permalink
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Generally speaking safeties are better in zone coverage don't see many/any teams going cover 0 on 3rd & 15
Well how about 3rd and 6? Against the better QBs, you will get eaten alive by just droping into zone coverage time after time. Its best to mix coverages. Throw in some man coverages, depending on formation and personel. CBs are generally better to disguise what your doing on the back-end. Especially if you have a CB like Charles Woodson, who can play safety and not miss a beat. If I see 3 safties on the field, Im going to automatically think zone or zone blitz because most safties in this league can't run with WRs. Hell, most of them can't run with the TEs now. Horton runs that LeBeau-styled zone blitz so I can see why the Cards use 3 safties but with most teams it just wouldnt work. Unless you posess a rare specimen at safety that can man up the slot as well as he can play in space. Very rare to find one of those.
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