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Old 01-08-2013, 12:30 AM    (permalink
RGKnee
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I thought he would rise to Top 15 after the combine but you make a persuasive argument. Unfortunately I don't have access to his film so I can't go back and watch him again.

I only saw him play twice, his bowl games, and he absolutely tore sh*t up on both occasions. Have to confess it did leave me wondering where his statistical production was in other games, but if he was being double and triple teamed the rest of the time, it makes more sense.

Would you rate him as a better prospect than Bjoern Werner, RGKnee?
It's not a matter of making direct comparisons.

Realise that all 3-4 DEs face double teams when they play inside like a DT normally does. That's just the nature of the position. Margus Hunt is no different than anyone else in that regard. 3-4 DEs aren't going to pile up huge numbers of sacks and hurries like 4-3 DEs and 3-4 LBs do because they don't rush the edge nearly as much. It's a lot harder to bust through the middle and get pressure. Hunt's 8 sacks and 11 hurries are absolutely stellar for a 3-4 defensive end. He often gets that pressure by splitting double teams.

You can't make a direct comparison of the value of Werner and Hunt because they play two different positions with different demands - Werner is a 4-3 end, a complete player and pro ready. If a team runs that scheme and has need of a pass rush NOW, they should take Werner. If, however, they run a 3-4 they should choose Hunt.

Overall I would rate Hunt as a pass rushing prospect with more value. But it isn't by way of direct comparison of their playing. I just think that Hunt's combo of power and speed will ultimately be a game changer in a way Werner cannot be.

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Old 01-08-2013, 05:02 PM    (permalink
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What was it about Pittsburgh and Fresno State that allowed for Hunt to make the flashy "stat" plays that were so few and far in most other games.

I agree that stats can be almost meaningless in regards to the front 3 in an odd front, but the spike in "statistical" production in those two games is interesting.
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Old 01-08-2013, 05:17 PM    (permalink
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Sorry but at this point in the draft process, Hunt isn't going top 5 nor top 20 in this year's draft. Now, if he blows everybody away at the Combine, he will make a move up draft boards and possibly reach round 1 but any talk about top 5 or top 15 is likely out of the question. Right now he is a round 2/3 prospect. After all, who has he played against, has he faced any OT's with top rated pro potential and dominated them? Bjoern Werner is ranked way ahead of him.
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Old 01-08-2013, 06:50 PM    (permalink
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Bjoern Werner is ranked way ahead of him.
This doesn't dispell his original argument. I don't feel he views Werner as a 3-4 DE. Therefore he's not comparing them side-by-side.
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Old 01-08-2013, 06:52 PM    (permalink
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Sorry but at this point in the draft process, Hunt isn't going top 5 nor top 20 in this year's draft. Now, if he blows everybody away at the Combine, he will make a move up draft boards and possibly reach round 1 but any talk about top 5 or top 15 is likely out of the question. Right now he is a round 2/3 prospect. After all, who has he played against, has he faced any OT's with top rated pro potential and dominated them? Bjoern Werner is ranked way ahead of him.
He faced the Texas A&M duo and did nothing that game. Lots of potential, but has only lived up to it in two games his entire career.
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Old 01-08-2013, 11:15 PM    (permalink
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My god. I was compelled to register after reading this travesty of a thread, especially posts like the one above.

Some of you guys remind me of the Texans fans that booed JJ Watt when he was selected in 2011, people that don't know even the most basic things about the game, like the difference between a 4-3 and a 3-4 defensive end.

It's not a good idea to fire up cfbstats and then evaluate all of the defensive ends based on the number of sacks they've accumulated over a season.

Find me a 3-4 defensive end in college football that was as dominating a pass rusher as Margus Hunt this year(hint: there isn't one). Find me one that is even anywhere near as good at busting through double teams. Start with the other 3-4 ends invited to the Senior Bowl. Look at footage, don't go stat hunting.

As far as techique? He's come a long way from his very first year of football. He's good at staying low going around the edge and using a hook to help turn the corner. I've seen him use over/under moves on the inside. He uses his hands well, and he has good understanding of leverage.

And as has been said, he's still "raw". This is only his fourth year of football. He's already an incredible pass rusher from the inside or outside, and he's only going to get much better as he hones his abilities. It's ridiculous to compare him to past older college players that had a decade or more of playing experience. They had already peaked. Hunt's upside is insane.

He's the best 3-4 end available and the best overall pass rusher available, and will be maybe the biggest combine phenomena ever.

He's a top five pick. Adjust your mocks accordingly.
Exactly, four years playing football. It will take time to learn technique. He's 26, how much time you think he has? Considering he played against C-USA foes during his stay at SMU... why is it that he hasn't dominated? He's 26, why compare him to older prospects? Because he's older.

Top 5 pick, and that's where I leave this ridiculous response. He wouldn't be a top 5 pick if he were 21. He's just not that good. There's a difference between being a great athlete and a great football palyer. He's a heckuva athlete for his size, but considering his athleticism, he's a marginal football player otherwise. He nees a lot of work and the big quesiton becomes, will he get it before his skills start to decline with age? 2nd rounder at best, possible 3rd rounder.
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Old 01-08-2013, 11:26 PM    (permalink
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I'm all over taking Hunt at any point in round 3 if I'm a 3-4 team, but in my heart of hearts I'm kind of hoping someone falls on that grenade for me and takes him earlier.

But in general, I'm loathe to draft the athlete instead of the football player.
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Old 01-13-2013, 09:20 PM    (permalink
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I think people are over emphasising his age, 26 is not that bad.

Sure college production is a factor, but it isn't everything, particularly with someone so new to the game.

For Margus it will be all about his physical tools, work ethic etc how each team views his potential fit for their system. His value will fluctuate depending on each team's assessment of his length to impact.

Margus is not going to be an immediate NFL starter, he is going to take a little time to develop. Thats perfectly ok. It will take a team who is willing to take a longer term view.

He isn't going to be a fit for every team, sure. But I could see the Giants for example being very intrigued/interested in this guy (particularly if Ansah is gone). They could groom him behind Tuck at LDE and use him inside on their nascar packages. Other teams, needing a DE who can come in and impact right away will likely prefer a more finished prospect.

Having said that, I think Hunt's value is probably somewhere around the middle of the second round right now, he is just too raw at the moment on top of that you have to consider the level of competition. There are just too many quality pass rushers and DTs in this draft for him to go too much higher in my opinion.

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Old 01-13-2013, 10:56 PM    (permalink
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I still think he ends up in the the top 50, maybe first round
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Old 01-14-2013, 12:30 AM    (permalink
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Some smart team will make this guy a TE.
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Old 01-14-2013, 02:50 AM    (permalink
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He may be older, but he just started playing football so his body has much less wear and tear than your other prospects. He will be fine. Potential first rounder, definite second rounder
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Old 01-14-2013, 02:58 AM    (permalink
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He's going to be a top-15 pick. Call it the Dontari Poe effect, but he's going top-15.
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Old 01-14-2013, 04:05 AM    (permalink
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I think people are over emphasising his age, 26 is not that bad.
After he finishes his 5 year rookie deal, he will be 31. There will be guys that finish their rookie contracts at 26.

It is a big deal. He's not 28 at least, but 26 is still older than you want to be.

He's nearing his physical peak. Somewhere during his rookie contract, he will start to physically decline.

To me, that's a guy you want to avoid in round 1. Let dumb teams take that chance.

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He may be older, but he just started playing football so his body has much less wear and tear than your other prospects. He will be fine. Potential first rounder, definite second rounder
It's not just wear and tear. Around 30 years old, your physical maximum (what you can achieve by working out and getting into shape) simply lowers.
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Old 01-14-2013, 05:59 PM    (permalink
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Some smart team will make this guy a TE.
Just like the smart teams did with his teammate Taylor Thompson last year?
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Old 01-14-2013, 06:42 PM    (permalink
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Just like the smart teams did with his teammate Taylor Thompson last year?
June Jones doesn't use tight ends. On any other college team that does, Hunt would most likely be playing tight end, especially with that wingspan and hand-eye coordination to be able to block field goals.
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Old 01-14-2013, 06:52 PM    (permalink
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Considering his age and skill level I think he is not higher then a 3rd round prospect. Throw his athleticism into the mix I think you can gamble with him into the mid to late second round if you are a solid team but I have a feeling he is going to make a Bruce Irvin type jump into the 1st on measurables alone.
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Old 01-14-2013, 07:00 PM    (permalink
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He will go 1st round on measurables probably.
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Old 01-14-2013, 11:00 PM    (permalink
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After he finishes his 5 year rookie deal, he will be 31. There will be guys that finish their rookie contracts at 26.

It is a big deal. He's not 28 at least, but 26 is still older than you want to be.

He's nearing his physical peak. Somewhere during his rookie contract, he will start to physically decline.

To me, that's a guy you want to avoid in round 1. Let dumb teams take that chance.



It's not just wear and tear. Around 30 years old, your physical maximum (what you can achieve by working out and getting into shape) simply lowers.
Nearing his physical peak? kind of like how Aaron Smith, Casey Hampton and Brett Kiesel played well until their mid 30's? and Justin Smith just hit his peak last year and he is now 33?
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Old 01-15-2013, 11:28 AM    (permalink
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Sorry but at this point in the draft process, Hunt isn't going top 5 nor top 20 in this year's draft. Now, if he blows everybody away at the Combine, he will make a move up draft boards and possibly reach round 1 but any talk about top 5 or top 15 is likely out of the question. Right now he is a round 2/3 prospect. After all, who has he played against, has he faced any OT's with top rated pro potential and dominated them? Bjoern Werner is ranked way ahead of him.
How does one even compare Werner and Hunt? They play (and will continue to play) completely different positions.
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Old 01-15-2013, 12:13 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by CollegeFan View Post
He will go 1st round on measurables probably.
In a real down year for defenders I'd agree but probably not this year. the production is just not great for the competition he's facing. I'd agree that guys can get doubled and all but when i've seen him that hasn't been the case.

Hunt could be a nice piece for some team but i don't see a huge rush to hear his name called.
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Old 01-15-2013, 12:18 PM    (permalink
CollegeFan
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In a real down year for defenders I'd agree but probably not this year. the production is just not great for the competition he's facing. I'd agree that guys can get doubled and all but when i've seen him that hasn't been the case.

Hunt could be a nice piece for some team but i don't see a huge rush to hear his name called.
He is in the Senior Bowl right? (gotta look at list again) would be curious to see how he looks there.
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Old 01-15-2013, 02:15 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by y.f.s. View Post
How does one even compare Werner and Hunt? They play (and will continue to play) completely different positions.
They're both European????
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Old 01-15-2013, 04:28 PM    (permalink
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I can see Hunt being extremely effective in a 4-3 front like the Giants or Rams, who both like to move guys around a lot. He is extremely strong for his size; he likely won't put up 40 reps on the bench due to his long arms, but I bet he puts up 30 or more. I can see him easily handling his own when he moves inside, and then still having the speed and athleticism to be trouble on the edge. He has made huge strides since I first started watching him at SMU a few years ago. I think the 20's is probably his peak, and I would be wlling to spend that on him, but I think he probably goes in the 2nd or maybe early 3rd.
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Old 01-18-2013, 07:36 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by brasho View Post
Exactly, four years playing football. It will take time to learn technique. He's 26, how much time you think he has? Considering he played against C-USA foes during his stay at SMU... why is it that he hasn't dominated? He's 26, why compare him to older prospects? Because he's older.

Top 5 pick, and that's where I leave this ridiculous response. He wouldn't be a top 5 pick if he were 21. He's just not that good. There's a difference between being a great athlete and a great football palyer. He's a heckuva athlete for his size, but considering his athleticism, he's a marginal football player otherwise. He nees a lot of work and the big quesiton becomes, will he get it before his skills start to decline with age? 2nd rounder at best, possible 3rd rounder.
Why are there so many dumb posts on this forum?

I just finished explaining to you that he was the best at his position in all of college football this year, and challenged you to name somebody that was better, but you just ignored that and posted some inanity about him being a "marginal player".

He's at the top of most teams boards already as a 3-4 end, I guarantee you, and he could also play as a 4-3 edge rusher that just adds to his value. Add the fact that he's the greatest kick blocker in NCAA history, and he's already a first round value. This is reflected in almost every mock out there where he is a late first or early second round pick. If he was 21, he would be the number 1 pick, no questions asked.
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Old 01-18-2013, 07:44 PM    (permalink
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When I watch Hunt play I see a tall guy with issues getting low and he's skinny. Looks like a 43 end to me, doesn't really look like he can anchor in a 34.
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