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Old 01-13-2013, 04:06 PM    (permalink
Rosebud
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Not a Jones fan, not overly dominant and getting over-rated because of his "versatility". At the NFL he'll be much better at Center than guard because he's smart and good, but he's not a dominant guard and we've still got Baas for the foreseeable future.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 01-13-2013, 04:55 PM    (permalink
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Not a Jones fan, not overly dominant and getting over-rated because of his "versatility". At the NFL he'll be much better at Center than guard because he's smart and good, but he's not a dominant guard and we've still got Baas for the foreseeable future.
You do realise Baas will be 32 before next season?
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Old 01-13-2013, 09:22 PM    (permalink
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I was looking at the depth of talent this year particularly with 70 underclassmen declaring, this is my latest thinking of what I would like to see in the draft.

1 (19): Ezekiel Ansah, DE Brigham Young

2 (49): Margus Hunt, DL Southern Methodist

3 (81): Arthur Brown, LB Kansas State

4 (113): Kwame Geathers, DT Georgia

5 (145): Trevardo Williams, OLB Connecticut

6 (177): Jamar Taylor, CB Boise State

7 (209): Khalid Wooten, CB Nevada

Groom Ansah, Hunt and Geathers behind Tuck, Canty and Joseph. Brown will compete for playing time and can play all of our LB spots, Williams is a developmental SLB. Taylor and Wooten add valueable CB depth.


[hr]

Note, I expect us to:

Resign: Victor Cruz (RFA), Will Beatty, Martellus Bennett, Kenny Phillips, Kevin Boothe, Stevie Brown (RFA), Keith Rivers, Chase Blackburn, Lawrence Tynes, Sean Locklear, Bear Pascoe (RFA), Andre Brown (RFA), Domenik Hixon, Adrian Tracy (ERFA), Justin Trattou (ERFA), Jim Cordle (ERFA)

Cut: David Diehl, Michael Boley, Terrell Thomas

Restructure: Eli Manning, Antrel Rolle, Corey Webster, Chris Canty, Chris Snee, David Baas, Justin Tuck

Last edited by Big_Pete : 01-13-2013 at 09:23 PM. Reason: fix spelling
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Old 01-14-2013, 07:52 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Big_Pete View Post
I was looking at the depth of talent this year particularly with 70 underclassmen declaring, this is my latest thinking of what I would like to see in the draft.

1 (19): Ezekiel Ansah, DE Brigham Young

2 (49): Margus Hunt, DL Southern Methodist

3 (81): Arthur Brown, LB Kansas State

4 (113): Kwame Geathers, DT Georgia

5 (145): Trevardo Williams, OLB Connecticut

6 (177): Jamar Taylor, CB Boise State

7 (209): Khalid Wooten, CB Nevada

Groom Ansah, Hunt and Geathers behind Tuck, Canty and Joseph. Brown will compete for playing time and can play all of our LB spots, Williams is a developmental SLB. Taylor and Wooten add valueable CB depth.


[hr]

Note, I expect us to:

Resign: Victor Cruz (RFA), Will Beatty, Martellus Bennett, Kenny Phillips, Kevin Boothe, Stevie Brown (RFA), Keith Rivers, Chase Blackburn, Lawrence Tynes, Sean Locklear, Bear Pascoe (RFA), Andre Brown (RFA), Domenik Hixon, Adrian Tracy (ERFA), Justin Trattou (ERFA), Jim Cordle (ERFA)

Cut: David Diehl, Michael Boley, Terrell Thomas

Restructure: Eli Manning, Antrel Rolle, Corey Webster, Chris Canty, Chris Snee, David Baas, Justin Tuck
2 DE's with the first two picks? I don't like that.
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Old 01-14-2013, 11:04 AM    (permalink
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I'm not a big Hunt fan for our scheme, he'd have to learn to DE and is an older prospect who dominated boys. I'd rather not be the team that takes him.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 01-14-2013, 11:45 AM    (permalink
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Listed at 6'3 232 with a frame to add more weight. I'm not sure what he's timed at but every game I've seen he FLIES from sideline to sideline. Amazing speed. He takes guys on at the point of attack too.



Against Bama. I like how he sheds some of Bama's linemen during the game. Wasn't his best game necessarily but he had 11 tackles and did a pretty good job.
This is the first I've seen of him so I can't judge too much, but so far I'm intrigued.

I like his length and speed. His instincts are good, not great but good. I really don't like how he tackles. He tackles high and doesn't wrap up well. And as you know, tackling is my highest priority right now when evaluating these guys.

He makes up for his shortcomings with incredible speed and range. I'll keep an eye on this guy.
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Old 01-14-2013, 12:24 PM    (permalink
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Having that said, I love athletes. And if this guy can bulk up a little at worst I can see him being a solid OLB. I need to see more of him to judge his tackling though.

We need an impact player on the 2nd level. I know everyone keeps saying LB isn't important, but just look at the transformation of the league.

I just saw Russell Wilson run all over the Falcons. I just saw Kolin Kaepernick run all over the Packers. Hell, we just saw RGIII in our own division run all over the place.

We are seeing TEs dominate the middle of the field as passing mismatches. YOU NEED LINEBACKERS!

Enough is enough. We can't rely on our pressure to just save the day and blow **** up every play all the time. Let's get some linebackers. We need some range there or else we're in trouble. The game is changing, we have to adjust.
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Old 01-14-2013, 12:28 PM    (permalink
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You can have any of the linebackers not named Arthur Brown your heart desires.
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Old 01-14-2013, 12:33 PM    (permalink
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So far Arthur Brown is my guy. I need to see more, but I really like his instincts and tackling ability.

The kid from Penn State has potential too. The more I think about this Oggletree character, the more I think he's a OLB. Don't like how he plays the run.
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Old 01-14-2013, 12:37 PM    (permalink
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Having that said, I love athletes. And if this guy can bulk up a little at worst I can see him being a solid OLB. I need to see more of him to judge his tackling though.

We need an impact player on the 2nd level. I know everyone keeps saying LB isn't important, but just look at the transformation of the league.

I just saw Russell Wilson run all over the Falcons. I just saw Kolin Kaepernick run all over the Packers. Hell, we just saw RGIII in our own division run all over the place.

We are seeing TEs dominate the middle of the field as passing mismatches. YOU NEED LINEBACKERS!

Enough is enough. We can't rely on our pressure to just save the day and blow **** up every play all the time. Let's get some linebackers. We need some range there or else we're in trouble. The game is changing, we have to adjust.
The Falcons have really good LBs and it didn't matter because their pass rush was dogshit. Packers LBs sucked, but their DL getting continually raped sucked to. And their gameplan was awful. Tough to blame either of those performances on LBs unless you're suggesting every team that isn't the Bears needs to be looking for better LBs.

But to keep overanalyzing the playoff performances on leaguewide trends, the Seahawks and 9ers amazing LBs corps have been getting abused. Facing playoff offenses you just can't take over on D without the DL getting pressure, regardless of your linebackers.

Which isn't to say that if we could get a DE, DT and DB/OL I wouldn't mind getting a very good LB to, it's just our Line needs a boost to, and ultimately it is still more important.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 01-14-2013, 12:39 PM    (permalink
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The Falcons have really good LBs and it didn't matter because their pass rush was dogshit. Packers LBs sucked, but their DL getting continually raped sucked to. And their gameplan was awful. Tough to blame either of those performances on LBs unless you're suggesting every team that isn't the Bears needs to be looking for better LBs.

But to keep overanalyzing the playoff performances on leaguewide trends, the Seahawks and 9ers amazing LBs corps have been getting abused. Facing playoff offenses you just can't take over on D without the DL getting pressure, regardless of your linebackers.

Which isn't to say that if we could get a DE, DT and DB/OL I wouldn't mind getting a very good LB to, it's just our Line needs a boost to, and ultimately it is still more important.
Exactly. These playoff games haven't really changed my mind as to what the Giants D needs. We need to stop the run first and foremost and I still think a big DT would help us. LB would help also but I don't think it's as big of a need and you can find good LB later more so than DT.
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Old 01-14-2013, 12:45 PM    (permalink
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I want a DT and DE as well, but I don't like the idea of completely ignoring LB. DT has a high bust rate, I just don't like taking them high.

DE is my first preference in round 1, but there's no guarantee that a good guy will be there at 19.

If a good LB is available in the first 2 rounds, I don't see why we should pass on one. We need linebackers.

I personally think LBs impact the game more than DTs. Especially in our defense, where DTs get off the field on 3rd down. I don't want to spend a 1st round pick on a 2 down run stuffer on the DL. That makes no sense to me, it's a diminishing return.

A 3 down DE or 3 down LB is higher priority to me.
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Old 01-14-2013, 12:51 PM    (permalink
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It seems to me like most of the PB caliber DTs in the NFL are high round picks. Usually a DT who's big and athletic enough won't fall to far so it's hard to find a good DT late. It's possible of course but it's more of a longshot.
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Old 01-14-2013, 12:55 PM    (permalink
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Here's the thing though, how many DTs in the entire league make an impact in the pass game?

Maybe 4 or 5 at most? The rest are very good run stuffers. But we don't necessarily need to put a high pick in a 2 down run stuffer, if we're gonna spend a high pick it should be as a pass rusher inside.

But those guys are just hard to find. Even Ngata, for all the pub he gets, doesn't do much in the pass game. His value could be a little overstated bc of it.

I rather just get a 3rd or 4th round guy who can give us snaps and solid run stuffing ability at DT. We make our money by saturating the DL with pass rushers, a DT is simply a 2 down player in our system.
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Old 01-14-2013, 01:00 PM    (permalink
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Stopping the run game helps the passing game though. It seems like we hardly had any team in 3rd & long this year because we couldn't stop jack at the line. I want to get back to controlling the LOS on both sides of the ball like we did in 07 and 08.
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Old 01-14-2013, 01:23 PM    (permalink
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And again, I'm fine with that. But I ask, do you need a 1st or 2nd round DT to do so?

I think we can get better value in round 3 for a DT. If we can find another Barry Cofield, that's more than enough. We just need a good run stuffer next to Joseph to take on blockers. We can find that in round 3.
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Old 01-14-2013, 01:24 PM    (permalink
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Of course, the board will dictate the selection, so if a stud DT is there then I'm fine with it. I'm just speaking in general terms.
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Old 01-14-2013, 01:30 PM    (permalink
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Well yeah I am also. I'm not saying take a 1st round DT over a LB just because he's a DT. I definitely want a LB also and if that's where we go I'm more than fine with it. I pretty much just want any defensive player in the 1st this year.
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Old 01-14-2013, 01:38 PM    (permalink
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2 DE's with the first two picks? I don't like that.
I had Hunt as a DT developing behind Canty. The guy is going to be around an inch or so taller than Canty, similar size and more athłeticism.
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Old 01-14-2013, 01:40 PM    (permalink
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So far Arthur Brown is my guy. I need to see more, but I really like his instincts and tackling ability.

The kid from Penn State has potential too. The more I think about this Oggletree character, the more I think he's a OLB. Don't like how he plays the run.
Brown is the LB I really like as an option so far.
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Old 01-14-2013, 02:04 PM    (permalink
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Well yeah I am also. I'm not saying take a 1st round DT over a LB just because he's a DT. I definitely want a LB also and if that's where we go I'm more than fine with it. I pretty much just want any defensive player in the 1st this year.
What if a guy like Warmack is sitting there? I'm open to OL too, as long as it's a stud.

I had no idea Baas is 32 years old also. Throw C as a need as well then, bc he has another 2 years left in him before he shits the bed.
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Old 01-14-2013, 02:08 PM    (permalink
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I'd be fine with an offensive player as long as it's OL. No skill players though.
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Old 01-14-2013, 02:11 PM    (permalink
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I think we can safely remove any offensive skill position player off the board in the first 2 rounds. Maybe the first 3.

Any defensive player + OL is game. But I'll be very upset if we go skill position offensive player.
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Old 01-14-2013, 02:16 PM    (permalink
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I think we can safely remove any offensive skill position player off the board in the first 2 rounds. Maybe the first 3.

Any defensive player + OL is game. But I'll be very upset if we go skill position offensive player.
My thoughts exactly. The playoffs have bored me this year I just want them to finish up so we can get to the exciting part of the offseason. It's really bothered me today that 3/4 teams from last year are the same except for us.
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Old 01-14-2013, 02:18 PM    (permalink
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Yup. Like I said, it was a blown opportunity. Truthfully we weren't as good of a team as last year, but we still should have made the playoffs.

I think our offense has potential to be VERY good next year. If Randle and Wilson develop, we re-sign Bennett who stays healthy, and Nicks can stay healthy and we draft a OLmen, watch out.
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