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View Poll Results: Who Was the Best Team Last Year?
Packers 41 49.40%
Patriots 4 4.82%
Ravens 3 3.61%
Steelers 0 0%
49ers 7 8.43%
Texans 6 7.23%
Saints 3 3.61%
Giants 17 20.48%
Lions 1 1.20%
Bengals 1 1.20%
Voters: 83. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-29-2012, 09:42 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Rosebud View Post
jsagan, what does your post have to do with this thread? If you want to talk about the giants coming out after a superbowl and having a great follow up season, look no further than the last time the giants won the SB, the following year they were the best regular season team before Plax shot himself and the team's passing game imploded in the playoffs, so there's that.

We'll see whether they are able to repeat that, minus the Plax-tardation at the end. The question isn't talent, seeing how well they played in the playoffs despite having to deal with a lot of injuries. But again this has little to do with the purpose of this thread, which is to reflect on last season, not speculate on the coming one.

I was just expanding on the premise that someone said I completely underrated the Giants. I think I rate them just fine... The topic that was being discussed at that point in time was relevent to my post.
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Old 07-29-2012, 10:15 PM    (permalink
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Maybe I am but that's a good thing right? I mean both. Years you won the SB you barely even made the playoffs, Coughlin was on the hot seat and Eli was a borderline bust in 2007. His record as a starter is 65-50 with an 8-3 post season record. So while I admit they've bern good in the playoffs they've been pretty lack luster during the regular season. If they can come out and disprove that this season, I'll change my tune but let's face it they're playing in a tough division, have a huge bullseye on their back, and they have a tough Schedule that gets exceptionally brutal the 2nd half of the season. If they make the playoffs this year I'll be suprised.

And I don't put teams in my power rankings based off of anything except for how I think they'll be that particular year. IMHO people are overrating the Giants just because they won the Super Bowl.


As far as being a skins fan, im probably the most objective skins fan you will meet. I think it will take a miracle for us to win 10 games this year. Heck if we win 7 I'll be suprised. Our schedule is tough, we have secondary problems, a problem at RT, a lot of potential at the skill positions (still worst in the NFC East), and a Rookie signal caller.

The NFL is a topsy turvy league so there are always suprises, risers and fallers. I think the Bears with a healthy Cutler/Forte, good D, and revamped recieving core shpuld scare everyone. I think Newton will fall to earth. I worry about the Texans losing their DC. I think the Bengals regress and the Browns progress. The Giants will be tough but probably won't win the division and i think they'll miss the playoffs. I think Seattle, KC, and Titans will be much improved as well.

Just looking at the skill level of all the teams going into next season it's going to be one of the toughest most fun to watch seasons in the history of the league.


Barely made it? We were 10-6 got one wildcard and last season we won our freaking division. LOL. Barely made it. Christ all might, you make it sound like we limped in at 7-9 or 8-8. Eli was no where near a border line bust. We got rid of personalities on this team AND made one big coaching change at OC, and that was all that was needed. Firing Hufangel was the best thing possible.

Well, I do agree the schedule is the hardest and we may very well not make it. It's not a reflection of the talent on this team, and as for Eli's record, what he has to play defense now too? How many defensive coordinators have we had since Coughlin took over in 2004? How many DCs has big ben had since 2004?

Why don't you actually look at the offense where Eli is controlling rather than focusing on stuff he can't control, unless you want him playing defense too. Not to mention our system is one of the hardest in the NFL. High risk/high reward which has a lot of qualities of the run and shoot elements of it.

The list overall you made is inaccurate. You have the Steelers on it. Why? How many players did they lose AND they are installing a brand new offense. Our stuff is the same, and all the coaches are back. We have one of the best HCs in the NFL and a top 5 or so QB, and still now on it.

But like the others said, I didn't realize you were a redskins fan. It does explain a whole hell of a lot.



I actually didn't know you were a skins fan, and now that explains a whole hell of a lot actually.
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Old 07-30-2012, 12:49 AM    (permalink
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Barely made it? We were 10-6 got one wildcard and last season we won our freaking division. LOL. Barely made it. Christ all might, you make it sound like we limped in at 7-9 or 8-8. Eli was no where near a border line bust. We got rid of personalities on this team AND made one big coaching change at OC, and that was all that was needed. Firing Hufangel was the best thing possible.

Well, I do agree the schedule is the hardest and we may very well not make it. It's not a reflection of the talent on this team, and as for Eli's record, what he has to play defense now too? How many defensive coordinators have we had since Coughlin took over in 2004? How many DCs has big ben had since 2004?

Why don't you actually look at the offense where Eli is controlling rather than focusing on stuff he can't control, unless you want him playing defense too. Not to mention our system is one of the hardest in the NFL. High risk/high reward which has a lot of qualities of the run and shoot elements of it.

The list overall you made is inaccurate. You have the Steelers on it. Why? How many players did they lose AND they are installing a brand new offense. Our stuff is the same, and all the coaches are back. We have one of the best HCs in the NFL and a top 5 or so QB, and still now on it.

But like the others said, I didn't realize you were a redskins fan. It does explain a whole hell of a lot.



I actually didn't know you were a skins fan, and now that explains a whole hell of a lot actually.
You do realize you were 8-7 going into the final game of the season, right?
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Old 07-30-2012, 09:11 AM    (permalink
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You do realize you were 8-7 going into the final game of the season, right?
Yeah, so? That one game was for everything. Win and you win your division lose and you go home. Us vs the Cowboys for the division & post season. You don't get any bigger than that during the regular season. So our final regular season record was 9-7, NFC East champion, and got our ticket punched.

But I am done with this thread since it's not the NFC East thread.
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Old 07-30-2012, 09:30 AM    (permalink
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I don't understand. What does his affiliation with the Redskins have to do with his point?
Because his bias as a Skins fan is clearly effecting his rational. I'm not asking anyone to acknowledge the Giants as the best team in the league last year. I can understand the arguments against them.

But when you say they weren't even a top 10 team in the league last year after winning the damn Super Bowl that's just assanine.
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Old 07-30-2012, 11:12 AM    (permalink
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I was done with this thread but to say the Giants last year or this year are barely a top 10 team is asinine. We probably have one of the most talented teams in the NFL this year position by position. Our depth is also pretty incredible in the salary cap era. We're going to cut a few players this year that go on to other teams and have success. Barely a top 10 team? That's honestly laughable.
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Old 07-30-2012, 05:06 PM    (permalink
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I was done with this thread but to say the Giants last year or this year are barely a top 10 team is asinine. We probably have one of the most talented teams in the NFL this year position by position. Our depth is also pretty incredible in the salary cap era. We're going to cut a few players this year that go on to other teams and have success. Barely a top 10 team? That's honestly laughable.
So who's being bias based on the team they like?

The Giants are WAY over hyped IMHO (mostly by their fans and band wagoners that are incapable of seeing the whole story)...

Even Vegas agrees with me.

Packers 13/2
Pats 8/1
9ers 10/1
Bronco’s 12/1
Texans 12/1
Eagles 14/1
Ravens 16/1
Bears 18/1
Saints 18/1
Giants 18/1
Steelers 18/1

I don't have them in the same class as the 4 other teams that are 18/1 to win it all and the fact that their division is brutal I'll be shocked if they make the playoffs.


http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...season/page/11


I'm not sure where these guys got their numbers though, because the MGM Grand's sport book are different but regardless, both lists back my point that the Giants don't seem as if they are the best team in their division.
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Old 07-30-2012, 05:09 PM    (permalink
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Yeah because the Vegas odds are the be all end all when it comes to ranking talent. The odds are hard for the Giants because statistically speaking it's very difficult to repeat as SB winners so Vegas has that factored in.

Like I said the Giants have one of the most talented rosters in the NFL from players 1-53. Hopefully they show up and play that way which I think they will.
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Old 07-30-2012, 05:19 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
Because his bias as a Skins fan is clearly effecting his rational. I'm not asking anyone to acknowledge the Giants as the best team in the league last year. I can understand the arguments against them.

But when you say they weren't even a top 10 team in the league last year after winning the damn Super Bowl that's just assanine.
It's so funny how hypocritical people are... YOUR bias for the Giants is clouding YOUR vision of how mediocre you all were until you guys got hott in the playoffs.

Starting the playoffs they were ranking #10 out of 12 teams.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...ngs/index.html

Week 17, USA Today poll you were ranked #11
http://sportsdirect.usatoday.com/Pow...r-Ranking.aspx

Week 16, USA Today Poll you were ranked #14
http://sportsdirect.usatoday.com/Pow...g.aspx?week=16

Week 15, USA Today Poll you were ranked #10
http://sportsdirect.usatoday.com/Pow...g.aspx?week=15

Week 14, USA Today Poll you were ranked #11
http://sportsdirect.usatoday.com/Pow...g.aspx?week=14

Week 13, USA Today Poll you were ranked #12
http://sportsdirect.usatoday.com/Pow...g.aspx?week=13
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Old 07-30-2012, 05:21 PM    (permalink
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Yeah because the Vegas odds are the be all end all when it comes to ranking talent. The odds are hard for the Giants because statistically speaking it's very difficult to repeat as SB winners so Vegas has that factored in.

Like I said the Giants have one of the most talented rosters in the NFL from players 1-53. Hopefully they show up and play that way which I think they will.
I don't think you guys have THAT talented of a roster. You guys do draft well, but for the most part I think you guys are right in the top 10 from bottom to top.

And there is a reason Vegas exists and it ain't to lose money.. Just FYI..
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Old 07-30-2012, 06:00 PM    (permalink
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I haven't seen someone care so much about power rankings on this board in a while, but w/e. The giants weren't mediocre because of the talent, as evidenced by the superbowl run and being the best team in the playoffs, but because of Perry Fewell needing to come to the brink of a player mutiny, before giving up on his overly complex zone schemes and bringing a 4th pass rusher.

So even if you ignore the following march to the playoffs where the giants ***** smacked the falcons and Packers, squeezed past the 9ers and handled the Pats, the giants are still a lot more talent than you're trying to make them out to be. Top 3 safety duo, a lot of depth at corner, talented OLBs, amazing staple of DEs, a really good pair of DTs, two stud WRs with a bunch of talented youngsters, a strong set of RBs and an elite QB. That's a lot of talent and talent is never their problem. Injuries and keeping heads out of asses, both players and coaches' heads, are the giants problems, that's why they play so much better under pressure than when they're front running, when you're season's on the line you just can't keep winning with heads in asses.
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Old 07-30-2012, 06:13 PM    (permalink
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So even if you ignore the following march to the playoffs where the giants ***** smacked the falcons and Packers, squeezed past the 9ers and handled the Pats, the giants are still a lot more talent than you're trying to make them out to be. Top 3 safety duo, a lot of depth at corner, talented OLBs, amazing staple of DEs, a really good pair of DTs, two stud WRs with a bunch of talented youngsters, a strong set of RBs and an elite QB. That's a lot of talent and talent is never their problem. Injuries and keeping heads out of asses, both players and coaches' heads, are the giants problems, that's why they play so much better under pressure than when they're front running, when you're season's on the line you just can't keep winning with heads in asses.
I don't really want to get into a pissing contest about this, because it's ultimately irrelevant, but the Giants in no way handled the Patriots in the Super Bowl. You guys scored within the last minute to beat us by 4 points in a game that could very well have been iced if Welker caught the ball. You've mentioned it multiple times so I just wanted to clarify that. What's done is done, but with a little luck that game could have gone either way.
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Old 07-30-2012, 07:31 PM    (permalink
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I guess I'm the only one who doesn't think Eli is elite? The elite QB's in my book are Rodgers, Brady, Brees, and Healthy Peyton. Just because you win a couple SB's does not make you elite at your position. He and Ben are very similar to me and start that next tier of very good, but not elite QB's. (not yet anyway)
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Old 07-30-2012, 08:49 PM    (permalink
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I guess I'm the only one who doesn't think Eli is elite? The elite QB's in my book are Rodgers, Brady, Brees, and Healthy Peyton. Just because you win a couple SB's does not make you elite at your position. He and Ben are very similar to me and start that next tier of very good, but not elite QB's. (not yet anyway)
I'd be inclined to agree, but I guess it depends on how we're defining "elite." I think that Rodgers, Brady, Brees, and Healthy Peyton are clearly in a different tier than the next group of guys.

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Old 07-30-2012, 11:49 PM    (permalink
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The only way Eli Manning at this point in his career isn't defined as 'elite' is if you only are going by passing stats.

Brees is a stat guy. Peyton is a stat guy. Stats are great for a QB, but QBs are still defined by wins.
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Old 07-31-2012, 12:55 AM    (permalink
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The only way Eli Manning at this point in his career isn't defined as 'elite' is if you only are going by passing stats.

Brees is a stat guy. Peyton is a stat guy. Stats are great for a QB, but QBs are still defined by wins.

Even if u define as wins eli is 65-50 in the regular season and 73-53 total which I don't consider near elite.
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Old 07-31-2012, 02:10 AM    (permalink
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After looking a neat little stat I'm building I think you could make a very strong case for the Giants being the best team in the NFL last year and the Packers actually being 3rd. It is based off from this premise.

What's more impressive? Sweeping the Bucs last season or beating the Cowboys once? It'd be just about the same right? It is much harder to beat the better team than to beat one of the worst teams in the league. So I decided to look into how many victories that the teams defeated by the subject team (ie the giants) had including the playoffs.

I know what you are thinking
"But but broth this skews the stat in favor of those who go deeper in the playoffs." which is true how great of a team can you claim to be if you are losing early in the playoffs? But it does not instantly turn into oh they won the super bowl thus must be the better team argument. Because IE the 2007 patriots wipe the floor with the 2007 Giants or the more recent Steelers who lost to the Broncos in the playoffs the Steelers were still the better team by this stat.
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Old 07-31-2012, 03:08 AM    (permalink
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Even if u define as wins eli is 65-50 in the regular season and 73-53 total which I don't consider near elite.
Two SB appearances, two Lombardis.
One against the current 'best NFL team' ever.
There are wins, and there are WINS.

If things were reversed and the SKins had the Giants success under Eli including two SBs in 5 years, I'd be ready to punch someone in the mouth, figuratively speaking, if they tried to argue that Eli wasn't 'elite'.
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Old 07-31-2012, 06:22 AM    (permalink
Bucs_Rule
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After looking a neat little stat I'm building I think you could make a very strong case for the Giants being the best team in the NFL last year and the Packers actually being 3rd. It is based off from this premise.

What's more impressive? Sweeping the Bucs last season or beating the Cowboys once? It'd be just about the same right? It is much harder to beat the better team than to beat one of the worst teams in the league. So I decided to look into how many victories that the teams defeated by the subject team (ie the giants) had including the playoffs.

I know what you are thinking
"But but broth this skews the stat in favor of those who go deeper in the playoffs." which is true how great of a team can you claim to be if you are losing early in the playoffs? But it does not instantly turn into oh they won the super bowl thus must be the better team argument. Because IE the 2007 patriots wipe the floor with the 2007 Giants or the more recent Steelers who lost to the Broncos in the playoffs the Steelers were still the better team by this stat.
You also have to consider loses. The Packers had two, the Giants and the Chiefs. The Giants had 7, including two ugly loses to the Redskins.
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Old 07-31-2012, 08:28 AM    (permalink
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You also have to consider loses. The Packers had two, the Giants and the Chiefs. The Giants had 7, including two ugly loses to the Redskins.
Shame on you.
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Old 07-31-2012, 09:20 AM    (permalink
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Put it in the NFC East thread. Let's not mess up this thread.
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Old 08-01-2012, 07:38 PM    (permalink
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To be honest I think the Ravens were the best team in the league last year. They were very up and down at times, but they beat the elite teams.

It's a shame that Lee Evans and their stupid FG kicker ruined it for them. I think if they went to the SB they would have beaten the Giants.
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Old 08-02-2012, 03:31 PM    (permalink
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The Packers were not the best team last year. If they were, they would have been repeat champions. They had the best player in the game at the most crucial position. But to go along with that? An absolutely terrible defense. A running game that only looked average because the best player in the sport was so damn good. They faced a better, more complete team (Giants) with a QB who played extremely well in the postseason during a career year.

The Giants were the best team in the NFL. Yeah, their record sucked, but they decisively beat 3 of the top 4 contenders to win the Super Bowl (Patriots, 49ers, Packers). It wasn't a fluke that they went to, or won the Super Bowl. Everything came together late in the season. They were playing as good as anyone. Better than most.

The Saints looked just as unbeatable going into the postseason as any other team last year. The Giants went through a gauntlet. Probably the toughest road to the Super Bowl since the Steelers won it when they beat the top 3 seeds in the AFC, and then the top seed in the NFC (Seahawks).

The Giants also, basically, played in 5 postseason games. Their play-in game in week 17 against the Cowboys, then the four playoff games. At the end of the season, they had a team that could have beaten anyone. And they did. That was a pretty special team. To do what they did, with the road to the Super Bowl that they had... Damn good team. They made the Falcons look like a 3 win team. They made the Packers look mediocre. They made Rodgers look mediocre. Eli Manning's season is also very underrated. That was one of the best seasons a QB has had in recent memory (factoring in playoffs).

I'm also of the opinion that the team that wins the Super Bowl is usually the best. Especially when the team that wins (underdog) beats the team that everyone considers the best.
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Old 08-02-2012, 07:16 PM    (permalink
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You also have to consider loses. The Packers had two, the Giants and the Chiefs. The Giants had 7, including two ugly loses to the Redskins.
even if you decided to count losses as a negative that makes the pats the best team.
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Old 08-02-2012, 07:55 PM    (permalink
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Eli Manning's season is also very underrated. That was one of the best seasons a QB has had in recent memory (factoring in playoffs).
I find this hard to believe when it wasn't even the best season last year. May not have been top 3. So to call it the best season a QB has had in recent memory is going way over board. He made some huge throws in the playoffs, no doubt about it, but let's not make it something it wasn't.
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