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Old 10-18-2012, 06:38 PM    (permalink
Giantsfan1080
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Originally Posted by OSUGiants17 View Post
So who is then?

I could make an argument that Khaseem Greene has been a better LB this year than Te'o.
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Old 10-18-2012, 06:45 PM    (permalink
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**** that. Toby > Ingram forever. Gerhart was better that year, but Ingram was on a higher profile team. I think east coast bias is eh, but I believe it actually happened. Toby dominated games and the pace of play. 4 yard runs in the 1st quarter ground into 12 yard runs in the 4th. I wish more of Gerhart and Luck overlapped. I'm fully Ger-hard right now.

Coming up 2nd 3 years in a row sucked man. Cam clearly deserved his, but I would argue for Luck and Gerhart in the others.
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Old 10-18-2012, 07:22 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by OSUGiants17 View Post
So who is then?

Yeah, dude, I'm spamming because I think Stephon Tuitt is the better ND defensive player and that Jarvis Jones is a better linebacker. I'm not sure how I don't think a linebacker with two tackles for loss isn't the best in the country. So sorry about that.
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Old 10-18-2012, 07:27 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, dude, I'm spamming because I think Stephon Tuitt is the better ND defensive player and that Jarvis Jones is a better linebacker. I'm not sure how I don't think a linebacker with two tackles for loss isn't the best in the country. So sorry about that.
Agreed. For a LB to win the Heisman he'd have to be 5x better than the next LB in college. There are plenty of guys on the same level as him and better.
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Old 10-18-2012, 07:48 PM    (permalink
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Manti Te'o lol really? Clowney deserves it more than Manti.

Darren McFadden should of won it the year Troy Smith won it.
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Old 10-18-2012, 08:21 PM    (permalink
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Manti Te'o lol really? Clowney deserves it more than Manti.

Darren McFadden should of won it the year Troy Smith won it.
Yeah, but Clowney doesn't play for the undefeated media darling, either.

Defensive players who have been more dominant than Manti Te'o off the top of my head in no order: Jadeveon Clowney, Stephon Tuitt, Jarvis Jones, Jordan Poyer, Will Sutton, Dee Milliner, Kawann Short. Again, that's off the top of my head.

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Old 10-18-2012, 09:10 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, Tuitt is a monster. Te'o has really impressed me this year (I thought he was really overrated the previous two years), but I agree with Sniper that Tuitt is the best player on that defense.
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Old 10-18-2012, 09:33 PM    (permalink
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Notre Dame's website lists him as having 6.5 TFL and 6.5 sacks... do sacks count toward his TFL (and therefor account for all of them) or are they separate statistics?
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Old 10-18-2012, 09:34 PM    (permalink
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CFBstats has him with 2 TFL and 0 sacks.
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Old 10-18-2012, 09:36 PM    (permalink
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Notre Dame's website lists him as having 6.5 TFL and 6.5 sacks... do sacks count toward his TFL (and therefor account for all of them) or are they separate statistics?
ND's website has the same thing. You must be looking at last year?
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Old 10-18-2012, 09:37 PM    (permalink
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CFBstats has him with 2 TFL and 0 sacks.
I was referring to Tuitt, not Te'o
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Old 10-18-2012, 09:41 PM    (permalink
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I was referring to Tuitt, not Te'o
Sorry about that. Sacks do count as TFL though. He has the same amount of yards lost in sacks as he does TFL. I don't think that's a coincidence.
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Old 10-19-2012, 12:52 AM    (permalink
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Yeah, in college, sacks are TFLs.
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Old 10-19-2012, 10:22 AM    (permalink
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Yeah, dude, I'm spamming because I think Stephon Tuitt is the better ND defensive player and that Jarvis Jones is a better linebacker. I'm not sure how I don't think a linebacker with two tackles for loss isn't the best in the country. So sorry about that.
T'eo has some Luke Kuechley-esque stat padding going on this year.
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Old 10-21-2012, 09:58 AM    (permalink
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So with Klein's 7 TD performance over Geno Smith(who had 2 INTs on the day), does Klein become the new frontrunner?
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Old 10-21-2012, 09:59 AM    (permalink
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So with Klein's 7 TD performance over Geno Smith(who had 2 INTs on the day), does Klein become the new frontrunner?
Well it's obvious at this point Geno is just another system QB, so he has no business being in the discussion at all. If these were games that were lost like 49-45 or 55-42. it would be one thing, but each time he's played a real defense he's been embarrassed. Now I really wish WV had cancelled the game earlier this season.
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Old 10-21-2012, 10:55 AM    (permalink
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I don't think Smith is a just a 'system' QB, he happens to play in an offensive system at WVU that's been figured out. It was like TT and K-State knew all the routes being run by WVU WRs and never bit on the option runs.
BTW
K-State is a really good football team, possibly one of the top 4 teams in the BCS.

That said, the Heisman IMO is Klein's to lose. If K-State finishes the regular season undefeated I think he wins it in a walk.
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Old 10-21-2012, 11:43 AM    (permalink
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I don't think Smith is a just a 'system' QB, he happens to play in an offensive system at WVU that's been figured out. It was like TT and K-State knew all the routes being run by WVU WRs and never bit on the option runs.
BTW
K-State is a really good football team, possibly one of the top 4 teams in the BCS.

That said, the Heisman IMO is Klein's to lose. If K-State finishes the regular season undefeated I think he wins it in a walk.
TT and KSU kept everything in front of them and tackled WVU receivers once they got they ball. Other teams did not have the talent or the coaching to have their defenders tackle in space. ESPN CFB Final put a stat up that Smith in the last two losses is 2-23 on passes of 15 yds +. WVU has a few challenges left and could potentially lose the next 4 games.

I think Smith is very much a system QB - when things were going good within the system and things were going WVU's way it was easy to heap praise upon Smith yet he has not seemed to handle the adversity particularly well - throwing chairs and not keeping his composure on the sideline. Just think Cam Netwon's non-composure on the sidelines this season - it will have an effect on the draft process. The victory at Texas is becoming less impressive as the weeks go on seeing that their defense is absolute garbage - Smith has not got it done against good defenses.

It was great to see a very well coached and well balanced team on both sides of the ball completely dominate one of the hyped up offenses of college football.

That said Klein leapfrogged Smith as the Heisman frontrunner and did it in remarkable fashion in a head to head matchup.
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Old 10-21-2012, 11:44 AM    (permalink
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The Heisman Trophy: Awarded to the nations most outstanding Big 12 QB with pretty stats.
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Old 10-21-2012, 11:51 AM    (permalink
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The Heisman Trophy: Awarded to the nations most outstanding Big 12 QB with pretty stats.
I wouldn't say Klein has the prettiest stats. He is a great competitor and leader with intangibles that also make him a good heisman candidate.
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Old 10-21-2012, 12:25 PM    (permalink
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Klein has 24 total touchdowns and quarterbacks the nation's #4 team. I don't think there's a player in the nation more important to an undefeated/1-loss team (because that has become a requirement barring some unreal stats)
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Old 10-29-2012, 12:06 PM    (permalink
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Klein had another 4 TD outing vs TT. Really solidifying his position going into the home stretch.
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Old 10-29-2012, 01:32 PM    (permalink
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Klein has 24 total touchdowns and quarterbacks the nation's #4 team. I don't think there's a player in the nation more important to an undefeated/1-loss team (because that has become a requirement barring some unreal stats)
It is hard to argue against Klein but a case could be made for Braxton Miller using that criteria.
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Old 10-29-2012, 01:59 PM    (permalink
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I'm playing devil's advocate here as I have a strong rooting interest in Klein to win it, but why not McCarron? He's got 0 interceptions and is the best offensive player on the best team in the country.
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Old 10-29-2012, 02:00 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TACKLE View Post
It is hard to argue against Klein but a case could be made for Braxton Miller using that criteria.
This is a pretty good point showing how the Bowl ban might have some influence.

But Klein has had signature wins whereas Miller hasn't.
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