Week 4 Discussion Thread - Page 106

J-Spot · 10-01-2012, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D-Unit

Yes, it was Jerry's fat wallet that did it. Wake up. We bought those SB rings. His money put us over the top. I give credit to Jimmy for drafting well for sure. He was definitely a HUGE part of winning those SBs. I'm not like you trying to eliminate 1 of them out of the equation. They were BOTH a reason why we won. It wasn't one and not the other. It wasn't ALL Jimmy.

Most of those players that contributed to those Super Bowl teams were home-grown and drafted.

Charles Haley was a free agent signing, and he was a contributor, and Deion Sanders came later, but he was only around for one Super Bowl.

It wasn't really about Jerry's wallet, D-Unit. It was more about all the players they drafted during those years.

dezsucks (Bob) · 10-01-2012, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D-Unit

Yes, it was Jerry's fat wallet that did it. Wake up. We bought those SB rings. His money put us over the top. I give credit to Jimmy for drafting well for sure. He was definitely a HUGE part of winning those SBs. I'm not like you trying to eliminate 1 of them out of the equation. They were BOTH a reason why we won. It wasn't one and not the other. It wasn't ALL Jimmy.

Losing him soured half the Dallas fan base in the 90s and I see you're still one of the hardcore leftovers... but firing Jimmy isn't the reason we are the team we are today which is something you're oddly hanging onto. It's so funny that we're talking about him in this thread.

Oh, we agree. This team is not Jimmy's fault or his firing.

It is Jerry's fault.

Soft
Over Paid
Entitled
Spoiled
Mistake Prone
Stooopid

J-Spot · 10-01-2012, 11:40 PM

Cowboys fans just don't understand the nature of that 90s team.

Without the Herschel Walker trade, they simply don't win those Super Bowls. They might have been a playoff team for a few years, but they don't win even one of those Super Bowls.

If you don't have a talent advantage over other teams, it's hard to separate from the pack and become a Super Bowl team, let alone a dynasty.

bearsfan_51 · 10-01-2012, 11:41 PM

The other thing that most Cowboys fans almost universally refuse to admit, year after year, is that you are NEVER as talented as you think you are. The Cowboys receive a disproportionate amount of attention year after year because of the size of the fanbase, not the talent of the team. If the Cowboys were in Jacksonville, they would just be another mediocre team.

Every year, a bunch of Cowboys fans start talking about the Superbowl, and every year you finish 8-8.

Giantsfan1080 · 10-01-2012, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D-Unit

Told you he was gonna be a fantasy beast.

And yet still the most overrated WR in football.

D-Unit · 10-01-2012, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dezsucks (Bob)

Oh, we agree. This team is not Jimmy's fault or his firing.

It is Jerry's fault.

Soft
Over Paid
Entitled
Spoiled
Mistake Prone
Stooopid

...and I agree with that too. Except I don't know who's overpaid. I'm pretty happy with the contracts we got going on.

I'd add that player leadership is a major concern. Team chemistry is a slight concern mostly because we got a lot of new bodies on defense and a make shift OL.

J-Spot · 10-01-2012, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bearsfan_51

The other thing that most Cowboys fans almost universally refuse to admit, year after year, is that you are NEVER as talented as you think you are. The Cowboys receive a disproportionate amount of attention year after year because of the size of the fanbase, not the talent of the team. If the Cowboys were in Jacksonville, they would just be another mediocre team.

Every year, a bunch of Cowboys fans start talking about the Superbowl, and every year you finish 8-8.

It's not that bad. The Cowboys have some talent, and they have enough to be a perennial playoff team, but they don't have enough to really separate from the pack like the 90s teams did.

It's just very hard to create a powerhouse team without extra draft picks and insider info.

D-Unit · 10-01-2012, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bearsfan_51

The other thing that most Cowboys fans almost universally refuse to admit, year after year, is that you are NEVER as talented as you think you are. The Cowboys receive a disproportionate amount of attention year after year because of the size of the fanbase, not the talent of the team. If the Cowboys were in Jacksonville, they would just be another mediocre team.

Every year, a bunch of Cowboys fans start talking about the Superbowl, and every year you finish 8-8.

Hah. It's not even that. There are fans on every team that think their team can win the SB. Why is it THAT much different when it comes to Cowboys fans?

It's all media driven. Why? Cause it makes the most money for them to pump up the Cowboys because of the huge fan base.

bearsfan_51 · 10-01-2012, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J-Spot

It's just very hard to create a powerhouse team without extra draft picks and insider info.

A powerhouse team? This is exactly my point. You aren't even in the same area code.

dezsucks (Bob) · 10-01-2012, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J-Spot

It's not that bad. The Cowboys have some talent, and they have enough to be a perennial playoff team, but they don't have enough to really separate from the pack like the 90s teams did.

It's just very hard to create a powerhouse team without extra draft picks and insider info.

You need a franchise QB and smart player personnel folks who can turn talent over to the development guys.

Dallas is severely lacking the last two and so-so number 1.

dezsucks (Bob) · 10-01-2012, 11:47 PM

Cowboys lack talent in the OL and DL.

Jerry does not like to draft or spend in these areas.

But WR and CB .... Jones breaks the bank

Again, he does not understand the game.

J-Spot · 10-01-2012, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dezsucks (Bob)

You need a franchise QB and smart player personnel folks who can turn talent over to the development guys.

Dallas is severely lacking the last two and so-so number 1.

Even if you have a franchise QB and smart personnel folks you can only go so far.

You need a real competitive advantage to become a powerhouse. I'd bet money that if the Herschel Walker trade never happened, the Cowboys are a typical 10-6, 11-5 team that makes the playoffs a few times but never wins a single Super Bowl in the 90s.

D-Unit · 10-01-2012, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giantsfan1080

And yet still the most overrated WR in football.

Don't let me talking him up confuse you with the consensus. I'm still damn happy he's on the Cowboys. I just wish he and Romo had put the work in to get on the same page.

dezsucks (Bob) · 10-01-2012, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D-Unit

Don't let me talking him up confuse you with the consensus. I'm still damn happy he's on the Cowboys. I just wish he and Romo had put the work in to get on the same page.

Been hearing this for how long?

He is already on the same page with Austin and Witten.

D-Unit · 10-01-2012, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J-Spot

Even if you have a franchise QB and smart personnel folks you can only go so far.

You need a real competitive advantage to become a powerhouse. I'd bet money that if the Herschel Walker trade never happened, the Cowboys are a typical 10-6, 11-5 team that makes the playoffs a few times but never wins a single Super Bowl in the 90s.

Of course that Walker trade helped the Cowboys propel to those SBs. That's an obvious fact.

J-Spot · 10-01-2012, 11:50 PM

The problem with those 90s teams is now that they happened, it's created an expectation that it's just that "easy" to build a winner. But there is no Herschel walker trade to bail out Jerry Jones and whoever he hires now.

Say that in 2006 Jerry traded, uh, Julius Jones for multiples first round picks in consecutive years to some stupid GM.

Those Tony Romo teams bolstered by a flood of young first round talents would have been multiple Super Bowl winners by now. Guaranteed.

J-Spot · 10-01-2012, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D-Unit

Of course that Walker trade helped the Cowboys propel to those SBs. That's an obvious fact.

The point I'm trying to make is that it was a once-in-a-generation type of windfall. That kind of thing doesn't happen more than once in a blue moon. It was easy for the Cowboys to build a powerhouse back then because of it, but people need to realize that it's insanely hard to build a dynasty without that kind of windfall.

By playing fair, playing by the rules, the Cowboys right now cannot expect to be much more than what they are. That doesn't mean that the GM and coaches are incompetent; it just means that in the NFL it's super hard to separate yourself from the pack if you're playing "fair" on draft day.

dezsucks (Bob) · 10-01-2012, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J-Spot

The problem with those 90s teams is now that they happened, it's created an expectation that it's just that "easy" to build a winner. But there is no Herschel walker trade to bail out Jerry Jones and whoever he hires now.

Say that in 2006 Jerry traded, uh, Julius Jones for multiples first round picks in consecutive years to some stupid GM.

Those Tony Romo teams bolstered by a flood of young first round talents would have been multiple Super Bowl winners by now. Guaranteed.

yeah, don't buy that but anyway ....

D-Unit · 10-01-2012, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dezsucks (Bob)

Been hearing this for how long?

Long before Dez got here. Romo hasn't had a single WR who he's been able to build a special relationship with. The only receiver he has is Witten and look how great that is. If he would only put in the same kind of work, then our WRs would get on the same page with him.

There's plenty of blame to go around on that... Like I said... leadership is a problem around these parts.

Peyton Manning has a better rapport with his Denver WRs than Romo has with his Cowboy WRs.

J-Spot · 10-01-2012, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dezsucks (Bob)

yeah, don't buy that but anyway ....

That 2007 team was pretty good. They also had a good year in 2009, but in both cases, some deficiencies on their roster kept them from going deep into the playoffs.

Add a stud DB here, a solid rotational DL there, a better FB here, and a beastly OG there, and those teams might have been alot more.

The only way to get all of those guys in *ADDITION* to the studs they already had on the roster is if they had multiple draft picks to play with in previous years.

If they had that, they could have done it. Without a ton of extra draft picks, it's hard to solidify every level of your team *and* fortify your depth.

J-Spot · 10-01-2012, 11:57 PM

The 2007 team needed some more DBs to beat the Giants in the playoffs, but if they had more depth there I think they could have gone to the Super Bowl. Their nickel corner let them down in that game.

The 2009 team had a great defense and great offensive skill players but their offensive line just completely let them down in the playoffs against Minnesota. If they had more OL depth and better starters there, they win that game and maybe beat the Saints in the NFCCG, imho.

dezsucks (Bob) · 10-01-2012, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D-Unit

Long before Dez got here. Romo hasn't had a single WR who he's been able to build a special relationship with. The only receiver he has is Witten and look how great that is. If he would only put in the same kind of work, then our WRs would get on the same page with him.

There's plenty of blame to go around on that... Like I said... leadership is a problem around these parts.

Peyton Manning has a better rapport with his Denver WRs than Romo has with his Cowboy WRs.

Austin. He goes to work everyday. When he was the #1 he produced big time. Team won games. Remember 2009?? The year we won a playoff game?

Next year, what does Jerry do after he finds AUstin, drafts Dez instead of shoring up the OL that year which he should have done.

The fancy new toy Dez showed up and Jerrah has a hard on so ..... offense goes to crap because now a weak minded QB has a weak minded #1

D-Unit · 10-01-2012, 11:59 PM

Pretty sure this forum is sick of the Cowboys talk. I don't believe the sky is falling in Dallas, but I'm probably naive. G'night ya'll.

dezsucks (Bob) · 10-02-2012, 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J-Spot

The 2007 team needed some more DBs to beat the Giants in the playoffs, but if they had more depth there I think they could have gone to the Super Bowl. Their nickel corner let them down in that game.

The 2009 team had a great defense and great offensive skill players but their offensive line just completely let them down in the playoffs against Minnesota. If they had more OL depth and better starters there, they win that game and maybe beat the Saints in the NFCCG, imho.

Yet coming off 2009, Jones drafts ... Dez Bryant. At least they got Sean Lee.

BaLLiN · 10-02-2012, 12:21 AM

Jerry does draft talented players, Felix Jones is a turd but he still has had some games where he has been dangerous...well most of those games were probably against the giants...fml