The Kansas City Chiefs Select... - Page 63

TonyGfortheTD · 02-27-2013, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-L

I understand the frustration of Chiefs fans, but Alex Smith is a clear upgrade over Matt Cassel.

Is he?
http://www.nfl.com/player/alexsmith/2506340/profile
http://www.nfl.com/player/mattcassel/2506562/profile

Damn near identical. They traded for Matt Cassel pt. II and made sure they got fleeced harder than Scott Pioli was 4 years ago.

vidae · 02-27-2013, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

I can see 8 to 10 wins. Reid will make it work. The problem is, the ceiling is basically the playoffs instead of the SB.

If everything goes perfectly, sure, 8 wins. Maybe 10. Maybe playoffs. No further than that.

Settling for mediocrity since 1970.

PACKmanN · 02-27-2013, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bitonti

this is a key point, im too lazy to look up the stats but it's absolutely true. assume they were both traded for 34 picks, it's not crazy to believe Andy got more mileage out of his 34 than Pioli did. Heck he's getting a former 1 overall pick.

yes, but at some point in the season KC felt like Brady Quinn was a better qb than Cassel. Being better than Cassel doesn't mean anything

vidae · 02-27-2013, 01:44 PM

Keep in mind, in 2009 the Chiefs gave up #34 overall for Matt Cassel and Mike Vrabel.

It didn't work out.

In 2013 the Chiefs gave up #34 + a conditional 2013 pick for Alex Smith.

It won't work out.

bitonti · 02-27-2013, 01:48 PM

it's possible that KC fans were being unrealistic about the chances that Geno Smith gets KC to the Super Bowl. Yes it's possible like 1 in a million in dumb and dumber.

vidae · 02-27-2013, 01:51 PM

Bitonti, just stop. Seriously dude, haha.

Wootylicous · 02-27-2013, 01:54 PM

Getting Alex Smith and drafting Joeckel just put them in the same situation as last year.

They could just have drafted Geno with #1, resign Albert (proven commodity and really good left tackle) and get a playmaker at another position to really help them.

y.f.s. · 02-27-2013, 01:55 PM

P-L · 02-27-2013, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyGfortheTD

Is he?
http://www.nfl.com/player/alexsmith/2506340/profile
http://www.nfl.com/player/mattcassel/2506562/profile

Damn near identical. They traded for Matt Cassel pt. II and made sure they got fleeced harder than Scott Pioli was 4 years ago.

What's identical? Their career stats? Because Alex Smith has progressively gotten better throughout his career while Matt Cassel, aside from a good 2010, has gotten worse. Even if you discount much of the past year and a half for Alex Smith as having Harbaugh and a dominant team around him, I still don't see how you can argue he isn't better than Cassel.

Alex Smith (two seasons before Harbaugh): 429/714 (60.0%), 214.5 ypg, 6.6 ypa, 32 TD, 22 INT
Matt Cassel (last two seasons): 321/546 (58.8%), 194.9 ypg, 6.4 ypa, 16 TD, 21 INT

KaneMarko · 02-27-2013, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Bolt

Really? Mel just rated Fisher higher than Joeckel.

Fine, I'lll revise it: The Chiefs will take whoever is the best LT at 1/1. Write it down.

FUNBUNCHER · 02-27-2013, 02:03 PM

AFCW is in transition and I still think KC has a great chance to finish 2nd in the division in 2013.

Oakland has QB issues, Manning is going to start his decline sooner than later and the Chargers are slipping.

I don't like the trade, but then again Andy Reid could win this division in the next four years too.

scottyboy · 02-27-2013, 02:07 PM

the fact of the matter is, Smith's not the dude who's got the potential to take a team picking #1 overall and lead them to the super bowl.

Geno, being a rookie with his whole career in front of him, did.

and they gave up a high pick in a ridiculously deep draft.

all the hugs for vidae, boezo and my chiefs bros

vidae · 02-27-2013, 02:07 PM

Exactly what you want when you have 3 picks in the top 63.. finishing second in your division.

KaneMarko · 02-27-2013, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bitonti

this is a key point, im too lazy to look up the stats but it's absolutely true. assume they were both traded for 34 picks, it's not crazy to believe Andy got more mileage out of his 34 than Pioli did. Heck he's getting a former 1 overall pick.

Their stats say that Cassel and Smith are eerily similar. If you look at the stats, Cassel may have a very slight edge. If Smith is an upgrade, and that's debateable, it's not by much.

Babylon · 02-27-2013, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vidae

If everything goes perfectly, sure, 8 wins. Maybe 10. Maybe playoffs. No further than that.

Settling for mediocrity since 1970.

You guys have the first pick in the draft V what exactly are you clinging to here. My guess is they win 10 games then Andy Reid can run for governor and win.

KaneMarko · 02-27-2013, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyGfortheTD

Is he?
http://www.nfl.com/player/alexsmith/2506340/profile
http://www.nfl.com/player/mattcassel/2506562/profile

Damn near identical. They traded for Matt Cassel pt. II and made sure they got fleeced harder than Scott Pioli was 4 years ago.

Thank you. I was too lazy to post the stats to the thread. But the stats are eerily similar. If anything, Cassel has an edge in some of the stats. The Chiefs basically just re-did what they did with Cassel with a player who, statistically, is very similar. Only thing we can do, as Chiefs fans, is hope the end results are not. But I'm not overly optimistic.

TonyGfortheTD · 02-27-2013, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-L

What's identical? Their career stats? Because Alex Smith has progressively gotten better throughout his career while Matt Cassel, aside from a good 2010, has gotten worse. Even if you discount much of the past year and a half for Alex Smith as having Harbaugh and a dominant team around him, I still don't see how you can argue he isn't better than Cassel.

Alex Smith (two seasons before Harbaugh): 429/714 (60.0%), 214.5 ypg, 6.6 ypa, 32 TD, 22 INT
Matt Cassel (last two seasons): 321/546 (58.8%), 194.9 ypg, 6.4 ypa, 16 TD, 21 INT

I guess if we're going to play that card.

The main argument for Alex Smith was he was cycling through bad offensive coordinators till Harbaugh. Guess what Matt Cassel has been going through since Weis' back in 2010?

vidae · 02-27-2013, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Babylon

You guys have the first pick in the draft V what exactly are you clinging to here. My guess is they win 10 games then Andy Reid can run for governor and win.

All likelyhood is that we use the first pick to replace Branden Albert, who we're going to let walk.

This is the first time the Chiefs have had the first overall pick in the common era, and we're going to use it on a sidegrade.

John Preston · 02-27-2013, 02:14 PM

The Chiefs didn't do what they did with Cassel, they did what they did with DeBerg, Montana, Bono, Grbac, Green, and Cassel: they picked up someone else's garbage and thought they could win with it.

They never did, and they never will.

The Chiefs have won four playoff games in 40+ years. Four. None in the last 20. They haven't won because they have consistently terrible absentee ownership that wants the stadium full but won't make a commitment to drafting and developing a QB. You can't win in the NFL without doing so and they refuse to do it.

The Chiefs will never change as long as the Hunt family owns them. They are one of the worst franchises in the league and in all of professional sports.

KaneMarko · 02-27-2013, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bitonti

it's possible that KC fans were being unrealistic about the chances that Geno Smith gets KC to the Super Bowl. Yes it's possible like 1 in a million in dumb and dumber.

And we are supposed to be doing backflips and buying SB tickets for Alex Smith? Yeah, yeah, I know. Alex Smith was in the NFC Championship game last year. But they also had a lot of great things around him and great coaching. You'll have to excuse me for not getting overly excited about Alex Smith.

vidae · 02-27-2013, 02:17 PM

Alex Smith is the very definition of mediocre. No one gets excited for Alex Smith, unless they're delusional.

WCH · 02-27-2013, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Preston

The Chiefs will never change as long as the Hunt family owns them. They are one of the worst franchises in the league and in all of professional sports.

My grandfather was a Lions fan and he spent the last decade of his life saying: "They've lost for 40/50 years. They've changed coaches, general managers, quarterbacks...it has to be ownership."

gpngc · 02-27-2013, 02:21 PM

Put yourself in Reid's shoes.

Drafting one of these QBs would be a bad investment. They'd have to start immediately. None of them are ready. Your team would suck in 2013 at the very least and you'd likely be looking for a QB next year also, possibly after another sub-4 win season. This is clearly his belief about this class.

The fans are putting immense pressure on you to find a new QB. You want to compete next year. Alex Smith is the best QB available.

So what would you do?

You'd at least see if you could get Smith for 4th or maybe 3rd, right? OK. So..

Make offer to 49ers. So do Cards. So do Browns. Price goes up. "We have a deal for two 2nds with Arizona." Reid's staring Foles/Matt Moore and a bad rookie right in the face because he HAS to get a QB. Offer 2nd. 49ers still playing hard ball. Offer conditional as well.

Whether or not you agree with the move, it's understandable because of supply and demand.

vidae · 02-27-2013, 02:23 PM

You're wrong. Giving up what the Chiefs reportedly did is not smart no matter how you slice it.

You really think Clark Hunt expected playoffs his first year? No. He expected them to start building a team. He was under no pressure to win right away by anyone.

It was a stupid move.

WCH · 02-27-2013, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gpngc

Put yourself in Reid's shoes.

Drafting one of these QBs would be a bad investment. They'd have to start immediately. None of them are ready. Your team would suck in 2013 at the very least and you'd likely be looking for a QB next year also, possibly after another sub-4 win season. This is clearly his belief about this class.

The fans are putting immense pressure on you to find a new QB. You want to compete next year. Alex Smith is the best QB available.

So what would you do?

You'd at least see if you could get Smith for 4th or maybe 3rd, right? OK. So..

Make offer to 49ers. So do Cards. So do Browns. Price goes up. "We have a deal for two 2nds with Arizona." Reid's staring Foles/Matt Moore and a bad rookie right in the face because he HAS to get a QB. Offer 2nd. 49ers still playing hard ball. Offer conditional as well.

Whether or not you agree with the move, it's understandable because of supply and demand.

I'm sidestepping your point and I understand what you're saying about a bidding war, supply and demand, etc; but if the 49ers would hypothetically be willing to trade Smith inside of their division, that's further evidence that his own organization doesn't think he's very good.