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Old 02-27-2013, 04:33 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
I don't want to get too deep in the weeds but the extension money was basically coming to him anyway. It wouldn't have been a problem if he didn't suck. The problem was believing he was a franchise QB when he never was. Not as a rookie, not in year 3. drafting Geno Smith at 1/1 means believing he's a franchise QB, day 1.

Here's another question if the last 10 KC drafted QBs have sucked, why so excited to draft #11?
And after 3 years of him obviously not being a "franchise QB" you cut him loose and start over. What's the big deal? What's the difference? Why waste time treading water with a middle of the road guy like Smith? You argument actually makes negative sense. Of course you believe he's a franchise QB, THAT'S WHY YOU PICK HIM.

And your last part...seriously? SERIOUSLY. new regimes. different QBs. different coaches.

HEY RAIDERS FANS JAMARCUS SUCKED SO WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO DRAFT ANOTHER ONE?
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BTW, if it's 3rd and 97... I'm throwing a screen pass to Brian Leonard and he will convert.
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Old 02-27-2013, 04:34 PM    (permalink
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I want the Raiders to draft him and then he goes on to dominate the Chiefs for the next 10 years.
This does kind of smell like in 10 or 20 years it could be the basis for an NFLN program called, "10 Reasons you can't blame the Kansas City Chiefs for passing on Geno Smith."

That said, I kind of like the move. I think Kansas City has the potential to be a more explosive offense than San Francisco next year.
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Old 02-27-2013, 04:34 PM    (permalink
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you do realize the jets drafting Sanchez isn't what put you in this hellhole, right? It was the abortion of an extension you gave him
Yeah. Actually, trading up and getting Sanchez was a great move. Unfortunate that he didn't work out. The killer was extending him.
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Old 02-27-2013, 04:35 PM    (permalink
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Trading for Alex is much riskier for Andy & Dorsey than just taking Geno #1. They wouldn't get fired if Geno fails, but they'll be quartered and their heads will be on spikes outside of Arrowhead of Geno is good and/or Alex bombs.

2nd round picks don't get people fired.

The fact that Andy didn't want Geno seems to have fallen through the cracks.

You guys hired a QB guru you should trust him.
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Old 02-27-2013, 04:36 PM    (permalink
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This does kind of smell like in 10 or 20 years it could be the basis for an NFLN program called, "10 Reasons you can't blame the Kansas City Chiefs for passing on Geno Smith."

That said, I kind of like the move. I think Kansas City has the potential to be a more explosive offense than San Francisco next year.
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Old 02-27-2013, 04:36 PM    (permalink
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Do you have a source for the 2014 second rounder because all I'm hearing is a mid round pick.
Yeah its kinda tricky language

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-sh...2777--nfl.html

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According to Tim Kawakami of the San Jose Mercury News, the 49ers will get a second-round pick in 2013 and a similar draft choice in 2014. Per NFL rules, the trade will not be made official until the 2013 league year begins at 4:01 p.m. ET on March 12.
So in short there is nothing that says for sure it is a 3rd or 2nd in 2014.
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oh please. as if canadians even know what beer is.
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Old 02-27-2013, 04:38 PM    (permalink
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2nd round picks don't get people fired.

The fact that Andy didn't want Geno seems to have fallen through the cracks.

You guys hired a QB guru you should trust him.
Yeah, and if the guy he supposedly didn't like turns out to be any kind of good, it'll be the undoing of Reid and Dorsey. It almost doesn't matter what Alex Smith does short of becoming the next Drew Brees. If Geno is good and the Chiefs, whose biggest (almost only) need was QB, pass on him at #1... Andy and Dorsey are going to get fired because of that.

If they'd just taken Geno #1, they wouldn't have to worry about their jobs at all.
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Old 02-27-2013, 04:41 PM    (permalink
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And after 3 years of him obviously not being a "franchise QB" you cut him loose and start over. What's the big deal? What's the difference?
Can you imagine walking into your bosses office and say "Yeh boss that franchise-savior we paid 30 million dollars to already, he sucks we need to do it again."

The reason why the extension was made is because the GM who picked him is getting fired either way.

There's not a scenario where Woody says yeah Tanny you can pick the next QB because thank goodness you didn't extend the last one.


I don't want to turn a Chiefs thread into a Jets thread but there is a scenario where the Chiefs take Geno Smith and everything goes to hell. I've seen what can happen when a team takes the wrong QB really high in the draft and then everyone doubles down not allow that bad decision to get them all fired.

I know the Chiefs were 2-14 and that there's supposedly no place to go but up. But that's not really true. They could lose all their games with Geno as a rookie starter and then where will you be? looking for a new GM a new HC and a new QB. But still having to pay the last one 8 figures that he's owed on his shiny draft contract.
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Old 02-27-2013, 04:44 PM    (permalink
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If they'd just taken Geno #1, they wouldn't have to worry about their jobs at all.
The owners are only gonna allow so many big gambles. Geno is a big gamble. Especially because no scout or draft analyst has him rated as the best prospect in football. So it would be a reach and that's how people get fired.
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Old 02-27-2013, 04:44 PM    (permalink
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I know the Chiefs were 2-14 and that there's supposedly no place to go but up. But that's not really true. They could lose all their games with Geno as a rookie starter and then where will you be? looking for a new GM a new HC and a new QB. But still having to pay the last one 8 figures that he's owed on his shiny draft contract.
We'd be in position to draft Clowney and still have a franchise QB on the roster. That sounds awful.

And since people have pointed it out and you've either glossed over it or ignored it completely, drafting Sanchez wasn't the problem, just like drafting Geno wouldn't have been the problem here. The problem was the ridiculous extension instead of cutting bait and trying again.
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Old 02-27-2013, 04:44 PM    (permalink
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There is no ******* way Dorsey and Reid have their jobs in any kind of danger if they drafted Geno #1. None. The move they just made, though? They're both already on the hot seat. Guaranteed. If Alex struggles this year, **** is going to go down.
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Old 02-27-2013, 04:44 PM    (permalink
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Can you imagine walking into your bosses office and say "Yeh boss that franchise-savior we paid 30 million dollars to already, he sucks we need to do it again."

The reason why the extension was made is because the GM who picked him is getting fired either way.

There's not a scenario where Woody says yeah Tanny you can pick the next QB because thank goodness you didn't extend the last one.


I don't want to turn a Chiefs thread into a Jets thread but there is a scenario where the Chiefs take Geno Smith and everything goes to hell. I've seen what can happen when a team takes the wrong QB really high in the draft and then everyone doubles down not allow that bad decision to get them all fired.

I know the Chiefs were 2-14 and that there's supposedly no place to go but up. But that's not really true. They could lose all their games with Geno as a rookie starter and then where will you be?
You'd be in the same spot. Only with a QB who was in HIS FIRST YEAR. So yeah, you'd be in much better position.

I really don't think you understand how football and the NFL work.

yes, there are those scenarios, because the Jets would be so much better off if they didn't give Sanchez that contract and started over. Instead, you're stuck with a ****** QB with a worse contract. And why? Pride? Because you're spewing off some nonsense about going to your boss?

this is getting beyond hilarious. And you didn't even mention the 10 failed QBs so why pick #11, which is actually the worst logic I've ever read in the history of ever.
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BTW, if it's 3rd and 97... I'm throwing a screen pass to Brian Leonard and he will convert.
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Old 02-27-2013, 04:45 PM    (permalink
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The Jaguars could be moving on from Blaine Gabbert after 2 years.

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This does kind of smell like in 10 or 20 years it could be the basis for an NFLN program called, "10 Reasons you can't blame the Kansas City Chiefs for passing on Geno Smith."

That said, I kind of like the move. I think Kansas City has the potential to be a more explosive offense than San Francisco next year.
Not sure if my eyes are tricking me or you actually just said this...
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Old 02-27-2013, 04:46 PM    (permalink
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And your last part...seriously? SERIOUSLY. new regimes. different QBs. different coaches.

HEY RAIDERS FANS JAMARCUS SUCKED SO WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO DRAFT ANOTHER ONE?
was being sarcastic. my point is that drafting a QB is a gamble and even tho the last 10 spins have come up red on the roulette wheel, that doesn't mean it's gonna be black the next time. Or red. It's a gamble every time, sometimes you win sometimes you lose. But at 1 a lose means packing up and moving, again. Andy didn't want to make this gamble and i don't blame him. he made a smaller gamble on Alex Smith and it's a way smarter move.
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Old 02-27-2013, 04:50 PM    (permalink
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yes, there are those scenarios, because the Jets would be so much better off if they didn't give Sanchez that contract and started over. Instead, you're stuck with a ****** QB with a worse contract. And why? Pride? Because you're spewing off some nonsense about going to your boss?
If they don't give Sanchez that contract, there's no cap space (they can't cut him, cause he's guarunteed that money with no offset). it means they can't sign free agents like Laron Landry who made the pro bowl. There were logical reasons for the extension. Keep in mind this is a player with 3 years, 2 good and 1 bad at the time of the extension.

the problem was how the extended player performed. And who they picked several years ago. There's not a scenario where Mike Tannenbaum gets rid of Mark and keeps his job. the day he made that pick in 2009, he put his job on the line.

If Andy picks Geno at 1 he puts his job on the line too. Earlier in this thread someone brought up the Chargers how they recovered from Leaf, and got Brees, and Rivers, that's all true. But the guy who drafted Leaf got fired. It wasn't the same guy. If you like Andy and you want him to stick around, let him pick the QB he wants to pick.
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Old 02-27-2013, 04:52 PM    (permalink
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We'd be in position to draft Clowney and still have a franchise QB on the roster. That sounds awful.
if Geno didn't win a single game in 2013 why would you think he's the franchise QB in 2014?

You are assuming that drafting Geno = awesome. Automatically and without room for failure.

It's called scouting not hoping.
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Old 02-27-2013, 04:55 PM    (permalink
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See the thing is, fine, if you don't believe in Geno and don't want to take a qb #1 overall, that's fine.

FINE.

But when you use your 2nd round pick to take Alex Smith, you basically said you're not taking ANY qb.

And that's not fine.

Bc that 2nd round pick would have been a perfect position to take a qb you liked. Or perhaps parlay that pick into moving back into the 1st to take a guy who liked.

Or even trade it away and build equity for next year so you have more pieces to move around and take a guy you like next year.

Instead. You got Alex Smith.

Unless Alex Smith takes them to the AFCCG, or if they land a qb in round 3 or beyond that winds up being their future, this is an unjustifiable trade. Bc you sold your future for mediocrity.
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Old 02-27-2013, 04:55 PM    (permalink
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oh. that trio of posts just clearly showed that you actually don't know how the NFL works or that there's this thing called a long term process.

Yup, Landry surely helped the Jets. That ring he helped you win was awesome. Good thing you're screwed now with Sanchez and his contract, but god forbid if you didn't sign Laron Landry!
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BTW, if it's 3rd and 97... I'm throwing a screen pass to Brian Leonard and he will convert.
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Old 02-27-2013, 04:58 PM    (permalink
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See the thing is, fine, if you don't believe in Geno and don't want to take a qb #1 overall, that's fine.

FINE.

But when you use your 2nd round pick to take Alex Smith, you basically said you're not taking ANY qb.

And that's not fine.

Bc that 2nd round pick would have been a perfect position to take a qb you liked. Or perhaps parlay that pick into moving back into the 1st to take a guy who liked.

Or even trade it away and build equity for next year so you have more pieces to move around and take a guy you like next year.

Instead. You got Alex Smith.

Unless Alex Smith takes them to the AFCCG, or if they land a qb in round 3 or beyond that winds up being their future, this is an unjustifiable trade. Bc you sold your future for mediocrity.
What if you didn't like ANY QB much if at all?

I'm not trying to justify this trade. I'm trying to show Reid's perspective.

What would you do in his shoes if:

A) you don't like any of these QBs (which is understandable - I'm there right now)

B) you MUST acquire a QB upgrade this offseason due to outside pressure. So you can't just trade for next year's picks. That would be the wisest move, but you can't punt a full season. You have to sell to your fans that you're competing.

What would you do? I honestly don't have an answer. I'd be ****** lol.
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Old 02-27-2013, 04:59 PM    (permalink
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What if you didn't like ANY QB much if at all?

I'm not trying to justify this trade. I'm trying to show Reid's perspective.

What would you do in his shoes if:

A) you don't like any of these QBs (which is understandable - I'm there right now)

B) you MUST acquire a QB upgrade this offseason due to outside pressure.

What would you do? I honestly don't have an answer. I'd be ****** lol.
you don't give up pick 34 for a guy who was going to be a free agent anyway. that's what you DON'T do.
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BTW, if it's 3rd and 97... I'm throwing a screen pass to Brian Leonard and he will convert.
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Old 02-27-2013, 05:00 PM    (permalink
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What if you didn't like ANY QB much if at all?

I'm not trying to justify this trade. I'm trying to show Reid's perspective.

What would you do in his shoes if:

A) you don't like any of these QBs (which is understandable - I'm there right now)

B) you MUST acquire a QB upgrade this offseason due to outside pressure. So you can't just trade for next year's picks. That would be the wisest move, but you can't punt a full season. You have to sell to your fans that you're competing.

What would you do? I honestly don't have an answer. I'd be ****** lol.
What outside pressure are you referring to? It's pretty clear that they give zero shits to outside pressure RIGHT NOW. If they cared about it at all they'd never give up TWO PREMIUM PICKS for Alex Smith.
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Old 02-27-2013, 05:01 PM    (permalink
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What outside pressure are you referring to? It's pretty clear that they give zero shits to outside pressure RIGHT NOW. If they cared about it at all they'd never give up TWO PREMIUM PICKS for Alex Smith.
They just significantly upgraded their weakest position for 2013. Say what you want about Alex Smith but that's a fact.
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Old 02-27-2013, 05:04 PM    (permalink
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What if you didn't like ANY QB much if at all?

I'm not trying to justify this trade. I'm trying to show Reid's perspective.

What would you do in his shoes if:

A) you don't like any of these QBs (which is understandable - I'm there right now)

B) you MUST acquire a QB upgrade this offseason due to outside pressure. So you can't just trade for next year's picks. That would be the wisest move, but you can't punt a full season. You have to sell to your fans that you're competing.

What would you do? I honestly don't have an answer. I'd be ****** lol.
A) I don't think it's fair to say you don't like anyone at all. No prospect is wart free. You have to do your hw and make an educated guess on who has the best chance of succeeding and go for it. If Foles and Cousins can look successful last year why can't one of these guys? It's like we're expecting everyone to be Andrew Luck now.

B) If you allow outside pressure to dictate your decision making, then you're doomed to fail. Outside pressure should have 0 effect on your football operation.
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Old 02-27-2013, 05:05 PM    (permalink
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you don't give up pick 34 for a guy who was going to be a free agent anyway. that's what you DON'T do.
this x100

even without the circumstances, it was still a horrible trade.
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Old 02-27-2013, 05:05 PM    (permalink
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And after 3 years of him obviously not being a "franchise QB" you cut him loose and start over. What's the big deal? What's the difference? Why waste time treading water with a middle of the road guy like Smith? You argument actually makes negative sense. Of course you believe he's a franchise QB, THAT'S WHY YOU PICK HIM.

And your last part...seriously? SERIOUSLY. new regimes. different QBs. different coaches.

HEY RAIDERS FANS JAMARCUS SUCKED SO WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO DRAFT ANOTHER ONE?
The problem is that Sanchez was drafted under the old CBA, so they re-did his contract to free up cap space for 2012. Everybody in the Jets' organization knew it was a last hurrah of sorts with an old, depleted roster and they tried to keep things together one more year. Really, where the Jets hosed themselves was back in 2010 when they sacrificed the future to push a bunch of money out.

Geno Smith won't make as much money as Mark Sanchez did, so that problem isn't really a problem. Look at the Jags, they drafted Gabbert 10th, found out he sucked after two years, and will likely move on from him.

Drafting a bad QB isn't the end of the world like people make it seem. People have to separate that what's good for the GM/decision maker isn't always good for the franchise. I saw it happen with Gene Smith. The Jets saw it happen with Tannenbaum. When you make long-term decisions to protect your job for one more season...that's when you **** the franchise over as a GM.
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Tannehill was a better QB (than Gabbert) when he was still playing WR
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