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Old 02-27-2013, 11:39 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Monomach View Post
Game managers are franchise QBs now, brah!
Hilarious how 3100 yards with a 17:5 ratio is now better than mediocre. Some people just don't understand how the new NFL works.
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Old 02-27-2013, 11:47 PM    (permalink
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If he is the QBOTF now....I'm kinda hoping we take Milner if no one is available. With our pass rush and legit coverage. Our D will sorta, kinda resemble the niners..
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Old 02-27-2013, 11:52 PM    (permalink
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Andy: Ok, Alex. Time for practice. Today's practice is open, so all the fans are going to be watching. I put a stationary target at the sideline 15 yards out. Hit him in the chest. Twenty reps. Show 'em what they're here for, trooper!

Alex:
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Old 02-28-2013, 04:03 AM    (permalink
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I think they'll take Joeckel.

I kinda hope the heart clears and they take Star. Dude is a monster, and could seriously help that D.
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Old 02-28-2013, 07:07 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
I can't speak about the decades of being a Chiefs fan. Im a Jets fan who's team is about to trade the team's best player away for magic beans. And let me tell you, Alex Smith isn't exciting but Geno Smith could be Mark Sanchez. And you'd rather have boring and safe than outright disaster. Picking a QB really high and pretending he's a franchise QB when he's not is not a road you want to go down.

if it makes you feel better there are threads on the Jets board wondering why they couldn't make the trade for Alex Smith. This is a player that apparently was in some demand, believe it or not.
I question how much demand there really was for Alex Smith. One of the ESPN guys hinted at there NOT being much demand. The 9ers weren't going to trade him within the division to the Cardinals. The Browns are about the only other team that might have shown some semblance of interest.

Like I keep saying, this is NOT about Geno Smith. Least, not for me it isn't. It's the way this organization has gone about doing business at the QB position for DECADES. Litereally, DECADES. No exaggeration With the potential of giving up 2 second round picks, that means there's likely NOT going to be any real investment in a young potential signal caller. They probably weren't going there with the pick at 1/1. They can't go there with the second round pick. Probably not going there in round 3 because of the investment and commitment they just made in round 2. By round 4 any QB worth a dern will be long gone. Next year same thing. Probably win enough games next year to be out of the running for any 1st round QB. If we have to give up that second rounder next year...Third round, same thing. Then again, by round 4 anyone worth a dern is likely gone.

It's the commitment they have made that's the biggest issue. They have done almost the same thing Pioli did 4 years ago. Hitched their wagons to another castoff/backup QB with the hope that he's the guy. That's what it is here. They're all in on Alex Smith just like Pioli was with Matt Cassel. You almost have to be considering the potential compensation they are giving up. And THAT'S why this organization will never go anywhere. Because they continually and repeatedly fail to recognize the proper way to do business at the QB position.

And just because Jets fans want Alex Smith does not mean there was demand for Alex Smith. Least your franchise at least TRIED to draft and develop their own franchise QB. The Chiefs won't even do that. All I ask is the team, FOR ONCE, just try it. The Jets at least tried. And at least experienced some level of success with the attempt.
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Old 02-28-2013, 07:15 AM    (permalink
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I don't want to get too deep in the weeds but the extension money was basically coming to him anyway. It wouldn't have been a problem if he didn't suck. The problem was believing he was a franchise QB when he never was. Not as a rookie, not in year 3. drafting Geno Smith at 1/1 means believing he's a franchise QB, day 1. Mark Sanchez got a dozen coaches fired, the GM fired, and now the team is gonna trade Revis. Cause they aren't a contender. Because Mark sucks. It's a bad place to be. At least with Alex Smith you know what you have and won't be trading away Eric Berry for picks because it's time to tear it all down.



Here's another question if the last 10 KC drafted QBs have sucked, why so excited to draft #11? Shouldn't you want to avoid drafting QB's?
Because they haven't drafted a QB that was ever really any threat to be a long term starter, bitonti. That's what I've been trying to tell you. Yeah, they've thrown a 3rd towards Brokie Croyle, a Pat Barnes here, a James Killian there. But no one that's ever been a real potential threat to be a long term starter. That's the point you're not seeing. They NEVER do it. Not sine 1983.
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Old 02-28-2013, 07:18 AM    (permalink
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2nd round picks don't get people fired.

The fact that Andy didn't want Geno seems to have fallen through the cracks.

You guys hired a QB guru you should trust him.
You may want to study the history of Matt Cassel and Scott Pioli before you make that statement. True story: fans were paying money to fly banners over Arrowhead demanding Pioli be fired and Cassel be benched.

2nd round investments like this CAN get you fired. Because it hung the last regime.
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Old 02-28-2013, 07:32 AM    (permalink
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Really? I think the exact opposite. In terms of their own job security, this is the better move.

So if the Chiefs drafted Geno Smith and he failed, Dorsey and Reid would both be safe? Even in today's NFL, 1st round quarterbacks get three years to prove themselves. If Geno doesn't produce in three years, you think Dorsey and Reid are going to be allowed to pick another quarterback in the 1st round? How many coaches and GM's get to stick around for more than three or four years if their #1 overall pick fails?

I'll be the first person to say that the Chiefs gave up too much to get him, but I think people need to lighten up a bit. Why in the world would you want the Chiefs to draft a quarterback at #1 overall if neither of the decision-makers felt comfortable with these quarterbacks? Sure, maybe you all like Geno but I don't want my team taking a player, especially at quarterback, that they don't like.
People keep saying that drafting Geno or whoever and them failing will get you fired and Alex Smith won't. What happened with Cassel (traded for a second round pick) and Scott Pioli? If Alex Smith fails, what do you think is going to happen to Andy Reid and John Dorsey? I'm guessing they are getting fired. Not 100% saying that Alex Smith will fail. Just pointing out the flaw in the argument that Geno or any drafted QB failing will get a regime fired and Alex Smith failing won't. Because a strong argument can be made that the #1 thing that got Scott Pioli fired (and there were a number of things) was trading a high second round pick for Matt Cassel and him failing.
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Old 02-28-2013, 08:32 AM    (permalink
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People keep saying that drafting Geno or whoever and them failing will get you fired and Alex Smith won't. What happened with Cassel (traded for a second round pick) and Scott Pioli? If Alex Smith fails, what do you think is going to happen to Andy Reid and John Dorsey? I'm guessing they are getting fired. Not 100% saying that Alex Smith will fail. Just pointing out the flaw in the argument that Geno or any drafted QB failing will get a regime fired and Alex Smith failing won't. Because a strong argument can be made that the #1 thing that got Scott Pioli fired (and there were a number of things) was trading a high second round pick for Matt Cassel and him failing.
Add to that, suppose the Raider do draft Gino and he proves to be a big time success? Fired.
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Old 02-28-2013, 09:16 AM    (permalink
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People keep saying that drafting Geno or whoever and them failing will get you fired and Alex Smith won't. What happened with Cassel (traded for a second round pick) and Scott Pioli? If Alex Smith fails, what do you think is going to happen to Andy Reid and John Dorsey? I'm guessing they are getting fired. Not 100% saying that Alex Smith will fail. Just pointing out the flaw in the argument that Geno or any drafted QB failing will get a regime fired and Alex Smith failing won't. Because a strong argument can be made that the #1 thing that got Scott Pioli fired (and there were a number of things) was trading a high second round pick for Matt Cassel and him failing.
Pioli's committment to Cassel got him fired.
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Old 02-28-2013, 09:33 AM    (permalink
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Like I keep saying, this is NOT about Geno Smith. Least, not for me it isn't. It's the way this organization has gone about doing business at the QB position for DECADES. Litereally, DECADES.


i can see that point and agree with it but another way to look at it, this is one of the weirdest/weakest QB classes for sometime. Most years it makes sense to shop for a franchise QB via the draft. This is not that year.

i understand why KC fans want a drafted QB but wanting a QB and getting a good one are two different situations. Unrelated. This year chances are you'd have drafted a bust. SO be thankful your favorite team dodged a bullet.

and by the way if a 2nd round pick gets you fired in year 4 a 1/1 can get you fired quicker. Everyone eventually gets fired.
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Old 02-28-2013, 10:05 AM    (permalink
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This one will get them fired in year 2, not year 4.

The Chiefs weren't really in a position to improve at QB before. When you have the #1 pick, there is no excuse. Geno is going to go in the Top 10 and probably have a lot success. Chances atee, Alex will struggle and that will get everyone fired.
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Old 02-28-2013, 10:15 AM    (permalink
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Geno is going to go in the Top 10 and probably have a lot success.
the 5 game losing streak and the syracuse game doesn't bode well for "alot of success" it's basically hope. You are hoping he's gonna have success.

by the way maybe Andy Reid looked at all the QBs and the one he wants to develop is in the rd 3/4 neighborhood. He liked Foles about 2 rounds more than everyone else maybe he's got a target it's just not Geno and it's not in rd 2 either.
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Old 02-28-2013, 10:19 AM    (permalink
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Baylor lost a few games at the end of the year when RG3 was starting.

Not saying they're the same prospect at all, or even close, but a team losing streak doesn't define a single player. It's ridiculous to think that, especially if you watched any WVU this year. These boards could have fielded an 11 man offense that would have put up points on that D.
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Old 02-28-2013, 10:23 AM    (permalink
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This trade makes me no longer miss Dorsey in Green Bay.
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Old 02-28-2013, 10:35 AM    (permalink
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the 5 game losing streak and the syracuse game doesn't bode well for "alot of success" it's basically hope. You are hoping he's gonna have success.

by the way maybe Andy Reid looked at all the QBs and the one he wants to develop is in the rd 3/4 neighborhood. He liked Foles about 2 rounds more than everyone else maybe he's got a target it's just not Geno and it's not in rd 2 either.
Smith had two worthy players on offense other tham himself and none on the entire defense.
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Old 02-28-2013, 10:43 AM    (permalink
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Smith had two worthy players on offense other tham himself and none on the entire defense.
the Defending Geno Smith train has left the station for KC.

I'd like to hear from a Chiefs fan what they think about Andy maybe having his eye on a sleeper. Maybe Andy really likes Landry Jones for example. If Andy looked at all the Qbs and decided Jones is the best, he doesn't need to use 1/1 or 2/34 to get him. Just throwin that out there. Maybe it's an even deeper sleeper like Dysert or Jeff Tuel. Remember that Andy liked Foles about a round or two more than everyone else. And tho he did draft Donovan once upon a time he also draft Kolb and Foles and will look to other places besides rd 1. In fact he has done that more recently, the donovan pick was damn near 15 years ago.
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Old 02-28-2013, 10:49 AM    (permalink
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the Defending Geno Smith train has left the station for KC. .
There are already numerous reports saying people have him pegged as a top 10 talent/pick. Oakland, Jacksonville, and Arizona are all going to give him long looks, so actually the "Geno isn't worth the top pick" thought has left the station. If he's worth 2, 3, or 7, he's worth #1 and that was the argument the past few months is that he wasn't worthy of that pick.


I think his best fit is Arizona with Arians though, and I would love nothing more then to see him blow up and KC win 6-8 games for the next 3 years.
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I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.
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Old 02-28-2013, 10:57 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend View Post
There are already numerous reports saying people have him pegged as a top 10 talent/pick. Oakland, Jacksonville, and Arizona are all going to give him long looks, so actually the "Geno isn't worth the top pick" thought has left the station. If he's worth 2, 3, or 7, he's worth #1 and that was the argument the past few months is that he wasn't worthy of that pick.
The guys with the 1 pick didn't want him at 1. That actually happened. Andy Reid is supposed to know QB's. And if he had taken Geno, that would have been an argument that he was under-graded. BUt he's not taking Geno, he clearly passed. Heck the GM of the Chiefs said there was no QB with a solid rd 1 grade, and it doesn't seem like he had any reason to lie about that.

We shouldn't just disregard that because we don't agree with it.

but we won't really know until the draft, it's still possible Geno slips out of the first 20 picks.

Here's a question can you find a respected draft analyst that has Geno as their best player? The highest i could find was Gil who had him at 4. Most guys have him in the 15-30 range and these aren't dummies. alot of these guys talk to scouts. If the scouts actually have Geno graded as a top 10 pick, I'd be surprised. Most scouts have him graded out end of top 20, at the high end. Some guys have him graded lower than that. He could go top 10 to a guy like Buddy Nix who is basically got 1 year to save his job but it's a reach. I think we can safely assume it's a reach.
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Old 02-28-2013, 11:08 AM    (permalink
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Look, it's pretty simple when you think about it. If Geno or any of the other qbs in this draft pegged in the first 2 rounds succeeds, KC made a terrible mistake.

If they don't, it was an understandable decision to pass on them. It still doesn't make sense to give up such a valuable commodity for an average qb, but that is a separate conversation.

So time will tell.
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Old 02-28-2013, 11:14 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
The guys with the 1 pick didn't want him at 1. That actually happened. Andy Reid is supposed to know QB's. And if he had taken Geno, that would have been an argument that he was under-graded. BUt he's not taking Geno, he clearly passed. Heck the GM of the Chiefs said there was no QB with a solid rd 1 grade, and it doesn't seem like he had any reason to lie about that.

We shouldn't just disregard that because we don't agree with it.

but we won't really know until the draft, it's still possible Geno slips out of the first 20 picks.

Here's a question can you find a respected draft analyst that has Geno as their best player? The highest i could find was Gil who had him at 4. Most guys have him in the 15-30 range and these aren't dummies. alot of these guys talk to scouts. If the scouts actually have Geno graded as a top 10 pick, I'd be surprised. Most scouts have him graded out end of top 20, at the high end. Some guys have him graded lower than that. He could go top 10 to a guy like Buddy Nix who is basically got 1 year to save his job but it's a reach. I think we can safely assume it's a reach.
Wait a minute, you are saying they aren't dummys NOW, but a few minutes ago you argued that these same clowns all overrated Mark Sanchez. Explain.

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Old 02-28-2013, 11:16 AM    (permalink
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the Defending Geno Smith train has left the station for KC.

I'd like to hear from a Chiefs fan what they think about Andy maybe having his eye on a sleeper. Maybe Andy really likes Landry Jones for example. If Andy looked at all the Qbs and decided Jones is the best, he doesn't need to use 1/1 or 2/34 to get him. Just throwin that out there. Maybe it's an even deeper sleeper like Dysert or Jeff Tuel. Remember that Andy liked Foles about a round or two more than everyone else. And tho he did draft Donovan once upon a time he also draft Kolb and Foles and will look to other places besides rd 1. In fact he has done that more recently, the donovan pick was damn near 15 years ago.
Who cares what KC thinks? Most of their fans I have heard from are pissed off at the move to get Smith.
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Old 02-28-2013, 11:25 AM    (permalink
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Wait a minute, you are saying they aren't dummys NOW, but a few minutes ago you argued that these same clowns all overrated Mark Sanchez. Explain.
we don't know what the actual grades are on Mark Sanchez. Sanchez went top 5, but I question if he was ever really a top 5 player. If it came out that the scouts actually had the same grade on Sanchez that they do on Geno, it wouldn't surprise me. Sanchez was overdrafted for media reasons and for marketing reasons. But as a football player they are similarly flawed prospects. the point here is that 1 overall isn't a place for a Sanchez or a Smith. if there was a Stafford in this draft, we wouldn't be talking about Smith.
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Old 02-28-2013, 11:26 AM    (permalink
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Who cares what KC thinks? Most of their fans I have heard from are pissed off at the move to get Smith.
my point is that if KC had stuck at 1 and taken Geno, all the fans would say "Andy is a QB expert, and if he likes him that's great" but Andy basically did the opposite of that. He's still a QB expert, just because he didn't come up with the same conclusion you did. In fact he's the expert and we aren't.
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Old 02-28-2013, 11:53 AM    (permalink
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He's not a QB expert or guru. That is a common misconception.
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